The Nature of Debate 2: Palin and the LImbaugh Generation

We’ve now been introduced to McCain’s running mate, Sarah Palin, that two-fisted, moose-shootin’-and-dressin’ tuff-talkin’ hockey mom, that “pit bull” in lipstick, who wowed the nation with her experience and toughness last week at the Republican convention. We all look forward to learning more about her, but we’ve been told she won’t actually talk to the press until she’s freshened up her makeup, feels a little less scattered, and knows Larry King won’t be mean to her.

Yes, it sounds stereotypically feminine, but really, this is classic online macho behavior. Male or female, the ones who beat their chests hardest, stomp, snort, and in general make a lot of noise about being hardnosed hombres who stare reality square in the eye are the same right-wing message posters who’ll start looking frantically around for an exit once the discussion gets more complex than “liberals are doody-heads” or “I’m gonna kick yer ass!”

The best capsule explanation for this tendency I’ve heard has come from a blogger who pointed out the influence of right wing media and the mute button. We now have a generation of young adults who grew up listening to people like Rush Limbaugh and Bill O’Reilly and who therefore “understand” how a conversation with a liberal is supposed to go:

The right-winger makes a statement. A liberal calls in and argues. The right-winger responds to the liberal, perhaps upping the ante a bit by injecting a wee bit of personal insult into the brew. The liberal responds again, a bit headedly. About then, or maybe one or two exchanges later, the right wing host presses the button that turns off the liberal caller’s voice and engages in a monologue about the sheer dumbness of liberals in general, how much they hate America, and the extent to which the caller is an exemplar of the utter commie-pinko femnaziness of liberals. This is used as a platform from which subsequent right wing callers can comment, affirming the stupidity of liberals in general and congratulating the right-winger on “wiping the floor” with that lousy liberal.

I’m not a mind reader, so I can’t say exactly what it is that ditto-heads think when they hear this on the radio. Perhaps some of them honestly imagine that the liberal isn’t responding to Rush because s/he has been abashed into silence by the force of right-wing arguments. But Bill O’Reilly does this on television, even announces his intent of turning off someone’s mic, and I’ve seen shots of people’s lips moving in a vain attempt to make their point while Bill declares victory and does his little superiority dance. So obviously lots of these folks know what’s going on and consider stuffing a sock in someone’s mouth and then declaiming over their muffled protests a form of intelligent argument.

The other person, you see, is supposed to shut up at some point and leave the floor to the right-winger. Liberals (or perceived liberals, like anyone in the press) who don’t do this, and who ask dumb questions like “what do you mean?” or “how would this policy impact people in real life?” are being mean, combative, and just plain uppity.

This is the base McCain hopes to appeal to by taking Palin as a running mate. They’re not going to be embarrassed by Palin’s refusal to answer questions.

They’re going to nod, give the thumbs up and say, “Damned straight!”

They will put their thumbs up and cheer because their leader wants them too.

They are right because of who they are. Whether what they believe has any merit is besides the point.

There actually are a lot of people McCain brought Palin in to work "the base" (that is the group you re speaking of) while he appeals to the "middle".

I think he has stampeded to middle straight to Obama, the herd just isn't in full motion yet.

It may take an economic conflagration to refine their sensibilities..and oddly enough, there's one now!

Generation X (which right now is between the ages of 27 and 47) is generally politically apathetic though libertarian leaning. Here in Minnesota they are the ones that really like Jesse Ventura. One thing they don't like, however, is insane culture warriors.

that I belonged to. While he was capable of answering professional questions rationally, any political discussions turned him into Rush Limbaugh with an extra jolt of nastiness. He went so far as to find a picture of the family of another list member and make obscene remarks about them. Sometimes I felt like hosing down my computer after reading his messages.

Anyway, someone finally asked him why he had to be so vicious, given that there were other right-wingers on the list who weren't nearly so vile. His response went something like this: "When I lived in Berkeley, there were always lefties trying to convert me, so I started insulting them so they'd think I was crazy and not bother me anymore."

In other words, it was a deliberate ploy.

After that, we all pretended to put him on ignore. He insulted each one of us in turn, but we refused to respond. After a few days, he largely disappeared, making only occasional appearances to give rational responses to professional questions.

Too bad they've all descended to that level. I've followed politics since 1988 and seen the antics of loyal right-wingers misbehaving online since 1994 and I can honestly say over the years these people have gotten more shrill, more hateful, more childish, and are now completely batshit insane. Republicans are now the equivalent of that nasty kid sitting in the back of a station wagon who thumbs his nose at strangers in a "Nyaah! Nyaah! Nyaah!" gesture because he can get away with it and he gets a thrill out of annoying others. These people are like schoolyard bullies on the playground. Look at their leaders; Coulter, Hannity, Limbaugh and O'Reilly. Nothing but name-calling, sneering little pukes who can't discuss issues without smearing, muting opponents microphones or contradicting their own claims when convenient.

I discussed politics with these types on USENET for a while then I lost interest when it was obvious that facts didn't matter, logic had no bearing, and honesty/courtesy were non-existent. In short, when debating right-wingers they would tell any lie necessary, ignore any truth, and spin your words any which way to then crow "Ha ha you proved my point LOL." The name of the game wasn't assessing reality or having a discussion, it was hurling insults to make themselves feel better about those nasty liberals.

Some people I know have expressed trepidation about an Obama presidency, stating in essence "I know we are then going to have to sit through four or eight years of Republicans crying and throwing tantrums about Obama each and every single day, over every single thing he does." Well, with that mindset, then we'd better make sure no non-Republicans ever get elected, because we'll certainly have to deal with the juvenile crybabies having fits because they didn't get their way.

What's interesting is that it truly does not matter if they win or lose - they still continue to shriek about everything and everyone else anyway. Look at Mitt Romney - the most disgusting asshole I've ever seen in politics - at the RNC. Wailing away about liberals in Washington, completely oblivious to the fact HIS PARTY HAS BEEN RUNNING THE SHOW FOR YEARS. And it literally astounds me that anyone is listening to these pricks any more! How many times will the Republicans be discredited, proven utterly wrong about everything, shown to be liars, frauds and hypocrites, before they start polling at the numbers they truly deserve - 1% or 2%??

I am sure now that if right-wingers were asked why they are so full of hate, they would immediately answer that it's because that liberals have been so "hateful" to them. But I've never seen a single instance of a left-winger being anywhere near as obnoxious, despicable or loathsome as a Republican, and that is not bias. The fact is that right-wingers consider it "hateful" to tell them they're wrong; that tax cuts for the rich don't stimulate the economy (class warfare); that global warming is happening (you anti-business tree hugger); that the media isn't "liberal" when it actually does its job and reports the wrongdoings of Republicans; that they're not being "picked on" when told there is no evidence for creationism but plenty of evidence does indeed exist for evolution; and that discussing teen pregancies isn't off limits when the teen in question is the daughter of one of their holier-than-thou hypocrities who believes abstinence-only sex education is the only way to prevent unwanted pregnancies (you're being mean to poor Governor Palin, and never mind all the times Republicans were mean to Hillary or even her daughter)

What's especially sad is that elections in this country are never about the issues or even the competence of the candidates involved. No, it's about mudslinging and avoiding mudslinging. I think the Republicans deliberately do this to turn off many people from politics so they won't even bother to vote, figuring "they're all the same anyhow." That way all they need to do is whip up the party hateful on some idiotic wedge issue and send them to the polls.

Too bad they've all descended to that level. I've followed politics since 1988 and seen the antics of loyal right-wingers misbehaving online since 1994 and I can honestly say over the years these people have gotten more shrill, more hateful, more childish, and are now completely batshit insane. Republicans are now the equivalent of that nasty kid sitting in the back of a station wagon who thumbs his nose at strangers in a "Nyaah! Nyaah! Nyaah!" gesture because he can get away with it and he gets a thrill out of annoying others. These people are like schoolyard bullies on the playground. Look at their leaders; Coulter, Hannity, Limbaugh and O'Reilly. Nothing but name-calling, sneering little pukes who can't discuss issues without smearing, muting opponents microphones or contradicting their own claims when convenient.

I discussed politics with these types on USENET for a while then I lost interest when it was obvious that facts didn't matter, logic had no bearing, and honesty/courtesy were non-existent. In short, when debating right-wingers they would tell any lie necessary, ignore any truth, and spin your words any which way to then crow "Ha ha you proved my point LOL." The name of the game wasn't assessing reality or having a discussion, it was hurling insults to make themselves feel better about those nasty liberals.

Some people I know have expressed trepidation about an Obama presidency, stating in essence "I know we are then going to have to sit through four or eight years of Republicans crying and throwing tantrums about Obama each and every single day, over every single thing he does." Well, with that mindset, then we'd better make sure no non-Republicans ever get elected, because we'll certainly have to deal with the juvenile crybabies having fits because they didn't get their way.

What's interesting is that it truly does not matter if they win or lose - they still continue to shriek about everything and everyone else anyway. Look at Mitt Romney - the most disgusting asshole I've ever seen in politics - at the RNC. Wailing away about liberals in Washington, completely oblivious to the fact HIS PARTY HAS BEEN RUNNING THE SHOW FOR YEARS. And it literally astounds me that anyone is listening to these pricks any more! How many times will the Republicans be discredited, proven utterly wrong about everything, shown to be liars, frauds and hypocrites, before they start polling at the numbers they truly deserve - 1% or 2%??

I am sure now that if right-wingers were asked why they are so full of hate, they would immediately answer that it's because that liberals have been so "hateful" to them. But I've never seen a single instance of a left-winger being anywhere near as obnoxious, despicable or loathsome as a Republican, and that is not bias. The fact is that right-wingers consider it "hateful" to tell them they're wrong; that tax cuts for the rich don't stimulate the economy (class warfare); that global warming is happening (you anti-business tree hugger); that the media isn't "liberal" when it actually does its job and reports the wrongdoings of Republicans; that they're not being "picked on" when told there is no evidence for creationism but plenty of evidence does indeed exist for evolution; and that discussing teen pregancies isn't off limits when the teen in question is the daughter of one of their holier-than-thou hypocrities who believes abstinence-only sex education is the only way to prevent unwanted pregnancies (you're being mean to poor Governor Palin, and never mind all the times Republicans were mean to Hillary or even her daughter)

What's especially sad is that elections in this country are never about the issues or even the competence of the candidates involved. No, it's about mudslinging and avoiding mudslinging. I think the Republicans deliberately do this to turn off many people from politics so they won't even bother to vote, figuring "they're all the same anyhow." That way all they need to do is whip up the party hateful on some idiotic wedge issue and send them to the polls.

has become the way we all talk to one another. We turn off our listening ears when we begin to hear things we don't like. But I think that the right-wing has taken it to new levels.
While they feel free to espouse their viewpoint they do not want anyone to disagree with them or they turn verbally dismissive and disrespectful even to close family members; who are then supposed to know their place and come over to the "right" side. One of my relative's once called me a liar because I did not agree with that person about meeting Bush. It is not something I would do but I was lying since he is after all THE PRESIDENT. But to me he is an unelected usurper and I am not a worshipper of celebrity. Now I am learning not to be an audience for such unAmericanism.

The fundies and what remains of neo-con influence forced Palin down McCain's throat when he really wanted another "big money" paleoconservative like Romney or the corporate "centrist" Lieberman. The Republicans have basically shot themselves in the foot by tossing a bone to the right-wing boomer culture warriors because many swing voters that are Palin's age and younger are simply offended by her looniness, Generation X and the Millennial Generation are not fans of culture war nonsense. It's a common joke that O'Lielly's audience is as old as dirt, BTW.


Oh, and I remember reading somewhere that "alpha female" types in many different species tend to have elevated testosterone levels...

Liberals or perceived Liberals are supposed to leave the floor to the conservatives who then whine, err rant, err engage in serious political discussion. That's it political discussion. Let the adults (conservatives) talk while the Liberals slink off into the corner where they belong. :sarcasm: