Oh for fucks sake Why is Biden now saying Life Begins at Conception

This had better be a ruse for the fundy vote althought I don't see us getting those nutcases.

WASHINGTON — Senator Joseph R. Biden Jr., the Democratic nominee for vice president, departed Sunday from party doctrine on abortion rights, declaring that as a Catholic, he believes life begins at conception.

The position Senator Joseph R. Biden Jr. gave Sunday differs from party doctrine.


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While Mr. Biden’s views may not be new to Democrats in his circle, his comments, in an interview on “Meet the Press” on NBC, came at a time when his party is confronted with a new face: Gov. Sarah Palin, the Republican vice-presidential nominee, whose anti-abortion stance and decision to give birth just five months ago to a baby with Down syndrome have revved up the conservative base of her party.

In the interview Sunday, Mr. Biden tried to walk the line between the staunch abortion-rights advocates in his party and his own religious beliefs. While he said he did not often talk about his faith, he said of those who disagree with him: “They believe in their faith and they believe in human life, and they have differing views as to when life — I’m prepared as a matter of faith to accept that life begins at the moment of conception.”http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/08/us/politics/08campaign.html?ref=politics

It's kind of a central theme in Mother church (and as a recovering Catholic, I know a little bit about this particular subject). But unlike the whack a doodles on the other side, he doesn't seek to codify his religious views into law.....

to the nutscases that will twist his words to attack us?

killing life is bad. So if the child is life, abortion is killing the child, abortion is bad. I understand what he was getting at, but it's ammunition in my opinion; I hope no one uses it as it's be pretty downright low.

He's always made it clear that he has a point of view as a result of his faith -- but that he's not interested in imposing his faith on others.

The big question is, is that life -- in the biological sense -- worthier of protection than the human being carrying it.

Personhood is the point of dispute.

conception may be an important part of the life cycle, but its not the absolute beginning of life or of individual life.

Since it's the very "beginning" of development.

criminalizing abortion.

Everyone is entitled to their own belief's, it's when they try to put them into legislation to criminalize whatever they are against but that many people are for that it's a problem.

I'd suggest you listen to the interview with Brokaw. You're knee jerk reacting to something that isn't even remotely what Biden stands for. :eyes:

He voted to over ride Clintons veto of the PBA that had no exception to protect the woman's health.

http://www.votesmart.org/issue_rating_category.php?can_id=53279

2007 In 2007 NARAL Pro-Choice America gave Senator Biden a grade of 75.

2006 Senator Biden supported the interests of the NARAL Pro-Choice America 100 percent in 2006.

2006 Senator Biden supported the interests of the Planned Parenthood 100 percent in 2006.

2005-2006 Senator Biden supported the interests of the National Family Planning & Reproductive Health Association 93 percent in 2005-2006.

2005-2006 Senator Biden supported the interests of the National Right to Life Committee 0 percent in 2005-2006.

2005 Senator Biden supported the interests of the NARAL Pro-Choice America 100 percent in 2005.

2004 Senator Biden supported the interests of the NARAL Pro-Choice America 100 percent in 2004

http://www.votesmart.org/issue_rating_category.php?can_id=53279

It was when his boss was a Democrat that he blew it.
I just said he was not a stauch pro-choicer and that is something that can only be disputed if you are willing to accept his rhetoric. Most women who are staunchly pro-choice I do not particularly appreciate it.
I figured when he was chosen that this was coming, though.

and what any given person believes isn't the point - the point is we don't want to criminalize abortion and we don't want the government deciding what women should do with their reproductive organs.

what he will accept as a matter of law. Not great, but understandable in a practicing Catholic. I don't believe he poses a threat to pro-choice.

If it is used as a basis to ban abortion, then that is not fine.

I personally think burning the American flag is fucking stupid and pointless. On the other hand, I recognize it as protected free speech.

“For me to impose that judgment on everyone else who is equally and maybe even more devout than I am seems to me is inappropriate in a pluralistic society.”

Funny how they didn't think the rest of the statement was important.

effing NYT

People do not start at conception. People start when there is a relatively fully working brain in place. Life doesn't even really start. It only ever started once over a billion years ago and everything since then has been a continuation.

But the real point is whether he recognizes another's right to determine control of their own body. Beyond that its just arguments about morality. And the government protects rights not morality.

That is the basis of Roe v. Wade. It has nothing to do with when "life" begins. Restricting third trimester abortion is problematic, from a Constitutional point of view, and probably has a lot to do with the greater public good---i.e. society has a prevailing interest in preventing women from inducing labor when the infant is viable but premature, since this will lead to a child with severe needs.

If the law could say that one life is more important than another, then it could require that Joe be forced to live in New York, because his is the only blood type that matches Sally's, and she has a rare anemia that needs frequent, fresh transfusions to survive. It could require that he donate blood weekly to keep her alive, because it is the "nice" thing to do. Which is bullshit.

state means that church doctrine is irrelevant in matters of constitutional rights. Thats a totally logical position and one that is appropriate for any Democrat who professes religious faith.

What he (or me or you) personally believes doesn't matter. In no way does he question your right of choice. What more do you want?

also pro-choice, because not everyone shares my beliefs, and ultimately, it's a personal issue, not a government issue. See? It's gonna be OK--plenty of people see it the same way.

know that other's feel different and I would never force people who feel different to have to live according to what I believe. I'm completely pro-choice, the government needs to stay out of it.

public policy are two completely separate things. Joe understands that. The fundie crazed Republicans don't.

I'm with Joe 100%. I also believe that life begins at conception, but I also strongly believe that every single woman should have the right to make their own personal choice.

the point.

but he will not force his personal beliefs on others. I've had issues with Biden in the past about his comments, but this one I am fine with. Actually, I respect him for it.

You don't have to believe as I believe, but respect my right to believe as I choose. If more people were like this the world would be a better place.

of course, "life" never begins, really. In some sense, sperm and eggs are "alive". Just not as fully as a fertilized egg. And that egg, nowhere near as fully as an infant.

It's shades of gray. And humans don't do that well.

He's not imposing anything on anyone. Nor would he.

http://www.votesmart.org/issue_rating_category.php?can_id=53279

2007 In 2007 NARAL Pro-Choice America gave Senator Biden a grade of 75.

2006 Senator Biden supported the interests of the NARAL Pro-Choice America 100 percent in 2006.

2006 Senator Biden supported the interests of the Planned Parenthood 100 percent in 2006.

2005-2006 Senator Biden supported the interests of the National Family Planning & Reproductive Health Association 93 percent in 2005-2006.

2005-2006 Senator Biden supported the interests of the National Right to Life Committee 0 percent in 2005-2006.

2005 Senator Biden supported the interests of the NARAL Pro-Choice America 100 percent in 2005.

2004 Senator Biden supported the interests of the NARAL Pro-Choice America 100 percent in 2004

http://www.votesmart.org/issue_rating_category.php?can_id=53279

or his vote on the war. Or trade with China.

But other than that, he's a real left winger!

Democrats have enough intelligence to realize that they can have personal views but still rise above to support everyones rights. Its really rather simple.

If even our supporters are too reactionary to bother to think, we lose.

FYI: the Democratic party takes no position as to when life begins.

Biden's position is it isn't the government's job to do that, nor would the government be able to effectively do anything about it, even if it did define a starting point of life. Government is the wrong tool for the job, even if you think there is a job to be done there. As such it is a pro-choice (post Palin: pro-decision) platform.

In other words, Biden is completely in line with the party platform.

And he said so in no uncertain terms, even if the NYT on-purposely left that out.

that Roe/Wade is the correct law...there is freedom of religion and someone else of some other religion may not believe the same as he...that Roe/Wade is constitutional law...

conception, he knows that other people have different ideas of when it happens.

He was expressing his own belief, not trying to foist it off on everybody else.

Why do you have a problem with that?

personal belief and he also will fight for the right of those who do NOT share that belief. Roe v Wade is safe with Obama and Biden in the WH.

"I believe life begins at conception and am personally opposed to abortion, but believe that making it illegal is a huge mistake" is not really a problem.

things. Biden believes it but he's not making policy that forces people who feel different to live with his belief.

flying off the handle at a PARTIAL quote? Or do you just want to cause unwarranted alarm? :eyes:

all they want.

That does not make it RIGHT to impose that belief upon women, whom may decide for reasons we can not understand, to have an abortion.

Those cells, which divide and grow, are just cells which have NO awareness whats-so-ever. If they want to get down to it, Life actually begins during ovulation when a perfectly good egg is ejected from the womens body.

Pro-lifers just hate women..PERIOD.

Works for me.

and i am prochoice anyway. the question is irrelevant. life has no definite beginning, its a continuum.