Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

I'm furious and emotional- and just fuck*ng beyond.

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU
 
LibraLiz1973 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 08:24 AM
Original message
I'm furious and emotional- and just fuck*ng beyond.
I'm furious at my own stupidity in thinking that Palin made this an easy victory. I was wrong. I had a momentary lack of reason & assumed that everyone would look at her lack of experience for what it really is: A glaring red flag that says ERROR, ERROR! Instead, I am in fucking la-la land where people are saying dumb shit like her being the mom of 5 brings something to the table. Does Barack being the father of 2 bring something to the table? How about Biden's 3 living children? What do the children REALLY bring to the table when your going head to head with Vladimir Putin? Yes, parenting is one of the toughest jobs on earth. But it brings little to the table when you are dealing with foreign policy.

I'm furious at the new poll numbers that seem to indicate that America really IS this stupid. WHAT. THE. FUCK? McCain is right next to Bush as one of the WORST contenders ever. He's running on the heels of 8 years of horrific ineptitude- and people are buying it! I ask again: WHAT. THE. FUCK?

Eight years of Bush has been hell on our country. People are losing their jobs, their homes, their very lives. We're in a war we had no right to start. The fabric of our country has been torn to shreds. Yet people are gulping down kool-aid and supporting McCain. WHAT. THE. FUCK?


I can't tell you how absolutely fucking flabbergasted I am when I see ANYONE who makes below $50,000 a year supporting McCain. Or anyone who has more than one job. Anyone who doesn't have health care. Anyone who has no job & is struggling to find one. Anyone who has lost their home. Anyone who KNOWS and CARES about someone who has or is going through what I just listed.

I've spent the entire election saying that race wasn't an issue. I'm so pissed off and disheartened right now, I can't help but to think that people are leaning McCain because he's white. His VP pick is a fucking embarrassment & he has clearly stated time and again that he supports Bush's policies and will continue to do Bush's bidding. But are people running in droves from him? NO! They are piling on. The ONLY reason I see to be doing that is because, at heart, many of these voters are racist. Give me ONE good reason why, when the choice is Obama or McCain, anyone who ISN'T a millionaire would vote McCain???????

If I were Obama & Joe Biden right now, I'd be banging my head on a fucking table. People REALLY are FUCKING STUPID.

We should have this in the bag right now. It is SO beyond clear that Obama is the only choice that can start steering this country in the right direction.

I'll be completely honest- I know I am emotional about this. "Losing" in 2000 SUCKED... but as bad as it was, we didn't know what we were in for.
Once we did, that made 2004's loss absolutely gutting. It was beyond depressing- not that I need to tell you guys that. You know. As I am watching this play out, and watching the M$M gently caress the McCain campaign, I am terrified at where this could be going. I just really, really don't think that FINANCIALLY I can afford another 4 years of this shit.

I'm sorry, I know I am talking a lot about me here. But if not to you guys who will understand, than who?


I am not concern trolling. I am voicing legitimate frustration.

It is my hope that in posting this, I'll get feedback from you guys telling me not to worry & give me some positives to focus on.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
okieinpain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 08:30 AM
Response to Original message
1. it's close, but I agree with you 110%. obama is fighting an up hill
battle because of race. there are a lot of people who are going to have second thoughts with turning over the keys to a black man. I'm surprised that mcnutts hasn't tried to use the detroit mayor deal to sell that line of thought.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LibraLiz1973 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 08:34 AM
Response to Reply #1
6. How CRAZY is that?!?! Obama is the one fighting the uphill battle?
It makes me mental. He should be coasting right now. The campaign he's run... the campaign McCain's run.
Obama's plans for change... McCain's plan to change nothing. Why is this even tight?

I see them ripping it out of our hands, again, and I just want to cry.
Literally.

It's either racism or they are stealing it.


Who are these fundie motherfuckers stealing our country?!?!

I've tried and tried to not be angry at people who I know are Republicans. But more and more, they make me SICK.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
okieinpain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 09:06 AM
Response to Reply #6
29. yes people who like stupid comments like " what difference does
it make", or "obama wants to raise my taxes" drive me crazy too.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Cosmocat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 10:29 AM
Response to Reply #6
51. What I sold short on was the media ...
I mean, I KNOW they are in the bag, have just attacked BO relentlessly over complete irrelevant BS while totally covering up countless McCain gaffes.

What I had a momentary break from reality was in assuming the media would not COMPLETELY go into the bag over Palin.

Christ sakes, this lady is beyond any reason of debating unqualified, and has more baggage than freakin Brittany Spears.

Have to hold out hope that her true colors come through to enough middle of the roaders, and that we can get our votes out and get the EV math right.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tbyg52 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-09-08 05:46 AM
Response to Reply #51
73. Listening to TV news right now, and it's a different world. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Carrieyazel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #6
67. I agree with you on everything except Obama running a great campaign.
They're running a disciplined SAFE campaign. Not hitting McCain hard enough. Thinking that they could transcend the nastiness of the other side with the "post-partisan" call.

Obama letting McCain run his early "positive" national ads back in May without any response until late June.

Not going negative on McCain until after McCain mocked him and belittled him.

Running mediocre ads that aren't getting his message across. McCain's ads are sharper and a lot more clever.

Lame talking points.

The campaign needs a last-ditch change in strategy.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Windy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 08:36 AM
Response to Reply #1
8. The ad has been made and has played in Tennessee. McCain was on local tv here in detroit
today saying that he didn't know anything about the ad when challenged.

It will be used.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Doremus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 09:31 AM
Response to Reply #1
42. He has. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TheZug Donating Member (886 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 08:31 AM
Response to Original message
2. I share your frustration, but we have to channel it and FIGHT.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Life Long Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 08:38 AM
Response to Reply #2
10. Don't act like you don't understand the OP.
The OP is not saying not to attack Palin on her issues.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TheZug Donating Member (886 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 08:49 AM
Response to Reply #10
21. I think I understand fine.
I am all for hitting these lying Nazis with everything we can muster.

But we have to pick the right attacks.

And not let our frustration get the better of us.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Life Long Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 08:54 AM
Response to Reply #21
24. Wrong. Instead of going after the issues, you want to go after the baby
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TheZug Donating Member (886 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 08:58 AM
Response to Reply #24
26. I do NOT. Attacking the baby is a LOSER.
I'm willing to attack Palin and McCain on any issue that's effective.

The baby clearly is NOT effective.

I will not stand for sacrificing this election on principle--some "we have become what we beheld" bullshit. We could work all of our lives to sink to their level and never succeed.

However, we have to choose the effective attacks. The baby is not it. The daughter is not it.

Attack, but attack SMART.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 08:32 AM
Response to Original message
3. The entire M$M is OWNED by the power brokers within the GOP. No, it's attainable but not easy -
Edited on Mon Sep-08-08 08:32 AM by ShortnFiery
Just volunteer and get you and yours out to vote.

They can NOT steal an election that is a landslide for Obama (not close). Let's not make it close?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Hard Leftt Donating Member (100 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #3
70. Media
The right wing runs the media.

The message is Obama is a Muslim and Sarah is a Saint.

How can people not see through the bias??
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Midlodemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 08:33 AM
Response to Original message
4. I don't know. I taught TM French. I think I am ready to be VP.
Oh, and I was PTA President.


:thumbsup:


I agree with you. Like I just posted, the college kids are going strongly for Barack; at least the ones I know. TM said one of her dorm mates put an Obama sticker on everyone's memo board. They're still there.

McCain doesn't resonate with kids. Obama does.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
libnnc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 08:34 AM
Response to Original message
5. We are on our own. It's us against the talking heads.
And right now, they are winning :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

If I manage to keep myself from taking a sledgehammer to my TV it will be a miracle.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LibraLiz1973 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 08:36 AM
Response to Reply #5
9. I'm about ready to just unplug my tv and go off the grid.
Who are these assholes and why are they throwing the election to McCain?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Labors of Hercules Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 09:16 AM
Response to Reply #9
37. do it!
Cancel your cable contract and use your tv to watch netflix. That's what we've done for the past 6 years, and we haven't missed a thing.

LoH
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
trekbiker Donating Member (724 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 12:06 PM
Response to Reply #37
60. Exactly... Screw Comcast
I really cant stand that company. Netflix is great. I disconnected my Comcast cable two years ago and between my internet connection and Netflix havent missed a thing. Best Netflix deal is the three DVD and unlimited instant view. Around $18/month and instant view works great over the internet. For awhile I thought about going satellite but Netflix has been working out so well and at such a reasonable price that I dont need it. (sports fans probably would need cable or satellite however)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NotThisTime Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #60
62. I've turned my TV off, I'll watch KO & Rachel, that's it - the MSM is totally in the bag and I won't
support it....
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bigendian Donating Member (956 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 08:34 AM
Response to Original message
7. I hear you, Liz. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BumRushDaShow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 08:40 AM
Response to Original message
11. Have you talked to people in your area or overheard the discussions?
There is emerging out of the fog of propaganda, that this selection has energized the lunatic fringe who is being given an undue weight of media attention, making it seem as if they are the majority. This is all "Marketing 101" and perception, which is designed to cause the reaction that you are having.

The conditions of today are more like 2006 or 1992 than 2004. You have to seek out non-TV media to see that not everyone is buying it. There are 2 months left for each side to do that last leg of the campaign and alot can happen between now and then.

The key is to focus on individual states and getting that electoral vote - i.e., "politics and elections are local", and thus "national" sentiment becomes irrelevent when it comes to flipping states over to get those electors. As it is, the polls were meaningless for Dems in the past couple elections anyway.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
beachmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 11:07 AM
Response to Reply #11
58. Well according to Ambinder, Wisconsin is in play and now Georgia is not.
So state wise, according to recent polls, we are losing ground. To act like the situation isn't depressing is not to face this reality. I do think that after the debates, the polls are more trustworthy, but, well, I think Obama has suffered a setback. And that is after pulling off a brilliant convention.

I do think Obama & Biden need to be sharper in their attacks.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
CashGap Donating Member (53 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 08:40 AM
Response to Original message
12. Let's just say it...
Racism is actually helping us.

I circulate pretty widely, and I can't find anyone planning to vote against Obama because of his race. Yet I can't count the number of people who tell me they are thrilled to "finally" vote for a black candidate. Is anyone seeing the opposite? Is there any other explanation for the primary results (rhetorical question, not intended as thoughtcrime).

We need to get the discussion back to Obama vs. McCain. Somehow, in the last week, the dialog has become Obama vs. Palin, with McCain off to one side untouched and Biden off to the other side doing little. That will KILL US.

Every attack on Palin tells the uninformed that we match our #1 guy against their #2. If I were running DNC, you'd hear her name during the Veep debates and never before or after.

Obama vs. McCain
Obama vs. McCain
Obama vs. McCain
Obama vs. McCain
Obama vs. McCain
Obama vs. McCain

That's an easy winning message

Winning the Obama vs. Palin fight (which is easy) HURTS US IN THE OBAMA vs. MCCAIN FIGHT.




Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EnviroBat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 08:40 AM
Response to Original message
13. Try no to lose hope.
I recently found out from my mother, that my own sister, a mother of two, and barely surviving, is voting for McCain. My sister who was a Hillary supporter. My sister who lost her job in retail. My sister who is married to a Blackwater wannabe that is never home. My sister, who just recently discovered religious fundamentalism, (I won't call it Christian, cause it's the farthest thing from Christ). My sister, the mother of two girls and can barely afford health care for them. My sister, the complete fucking idiot who has been brainwashed by her moronic RW in laws, and the church, has decided to vote for McCain. Sometimes stupidity hits close to home, like a bad disease. My mother was hoping that I would contact my sister and try to talk some sense into her. Not gonna happen. She's stubborn like a cinder block wall, and twice as dumb. I will say this though. My sister has inspired me to work harder to get Obama elected now. I donate more, I talk to more people than ever about him. I feel it's my duty to protect my sister from her own stupidity.

Don't give up friend. Please continue to help me in this battle.

EBat
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Franks Wild Years Donating Member (687 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 08:45 AM
Response to Reply #13
17. Just don't feel obligated to help so much if McCain wins and she finds herself in a worse place..
Edited on Mon Sep-08-08 08:54 AM by Franks Wild Years
..I think sadly that some people, however close, have to pay some of the consequences for their own idiocy and you cannot waste valuable moments of your own life mopping up a great big chunk of their mess for them. Not worth the stress. Sometimes people may need to actually reach rock-bottom before they take stock and realise just how silly they've been.

It's really depressing - beyond depressing - just how many apparently decent people I've spoken to who've been duped by the McTragic spin. It really makes me want to hit my head against the wall. I don't hate them for it, but I certainly pity them for being so pathetically easily led and foolish.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LibraLiz1973 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 09:09 AM
Response to Reply #17
31. As Bill Maher says, "You get the government you deserve".
IF McCain wins, I wont be lifting a finger to help anyone that voted for him.

It goes against my very nature to say that, but I AM DONE with these assholes. They walk all over us and I am sick of it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EstimatedProphet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 08:40 AM
Response to Original message
14. It's just been a week
And look at how much has come out on her already. that means there is definately plenty more that hasn't come out yet.

Give it time, and work hard.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NJCher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 08:42 AM
Response to Original message
15. stay cool
This is their free ride after the convention. Everybody gets one; we got one, they get one.

Palin has a lot of baggage and if you think the media intends to ignore it, you would be wrong. Too many viewers to be gained for that.

The ticket is to look beyond the days after their convention. Don't get caught up in the moment. There are many more days for this to play out.

Meanwhile, this week, in every class I teach, I am going to give a motivational speech for college students to get registered.



Cher
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LibraLiz1973 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 09:11 AM
Response to Reply #15
32. Thing is, we DIDN'T get a free ride after
Because the next morning, McCain sprung this Palin bullshit on the country.

For the most part I agree with you- just frustrated that it seems the media is so quick to throw down with the Pukes.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FlowerPowerToday Donating Member (23 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 08:42 AM
Response to Original message
16. The reason McCain is winning is because we become emotional idiots!
Our emotional reactions is what gets us into trouble. I stated back when when many of us were going after Palin's daughter that it would lead us down a bad path. I knew for certain we were dead when Drudge linked the story of 'lefty bloggers go after Palin's 17 year old daughter.' What did I get? A bunch of "THANK YOU FOR YOUR CONCERN" posts. Followed with, "Go after her more!" In fact, there are threads now that say that very thing.

Our emotions is what blinds us to reality. We've got to calm down and approach this rationally. But, I'm ready to bet that, instead, we will further go over the brink with our hysteria. Calm down people! There are two months left to go.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jdlh8894 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 08:52 AM
Response to Reply #16
23. A Voice of Reason! Thank You! n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ramapo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 08:46 AM
Response to Original message
18. Yeah...me too.
We'll see how this all turns out but never forget 2000 and 2004, especially 2004.

In 2004, Republicans mocked Kerry's service, two years after mocking Max Cleland. In 2004, it was obvious that George Bush was negligent during his first eight months in office in dealing with the threat of terrorism. Bush used the terror factor to his advantage.

I too thought Palin to be such a lightweight that she would be seen as inconsequential at best. However, the media has anointed her the new golden one and I'm sure there are many voters who might select the ticket just because she has cute kids or cool glasses. The fact she is unable to stand before the press speaks volumes but the McCain camp has turned that to their advantage. The Republicans are brilliant when it comes to running a campaign.

So today we see a government takeover of the Freddies, thanks to Republican policies. Unemployment is climbing. Our infrastructure is falling apart...the list goes on.

The foundation of the Republican strategy will be lies and distortion. There are none better. We will see many puff pieces on Palin. Her extremist views will be buried in the gloss.

I'll bet right now that the VP debate will be seen as a Palin victory no matter what. As long as she doesn't say anything blatantly stupid, the media will be impressed by her ability to sit across from Biden and hold her own.

By no means is Obama out of this. The race is essentially even but there is no doubt the dynamic has shifted.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
scarface2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 08:47 AM
Response to Original message
19. i agree, that mkane is over 30% is absolutely mind boggling!
so many stupid amerikans....we are so screwed!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bragi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 08:47 AM
Response to Original message
20. In an age of manufactured stupidity...
... democracy is at best degraded.

At worst, it is undermined to the extent that the electorate no longer has the critical thinking skills and information needed to vote in an intelligent manner, let alone hold government accountable.

- B
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Politicub Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 08:52 AM
Response to Original message
22. I'm with you 100 percent
Edited on Mon Sep-08-08 08:53 AM by Politicub
I wanted to believe people are smarter than to fall for the same old republican BS again, but I was naive to think that.

The GOP are masters of symbolism. They knew exactly what they were doing when they screened the 9/11 footage at the RNC. It strikes an emotional chord with American's, and they GOP are playing half of the country like a fiddle. It's sickening and frightening, but gives insight into the leader/follower mindset.

The timing of Palin was a masterstroke, as it bumped the goodwill engendered by the DNC off the front pages and replaced it with the devisive GOP agenda. With the US economy falling to pieces, here we find ourselves arguning about Abortion and if women can have kids and be president, or something like that. I don't even know what the arguments are about anymore.

But one thing I can take comfort in is that Obama and his campaign managers are a lot smarter than most of us, and are taking the long view. I'm hoping that they focus on the positive will flip enough independents and undecides over to the dem column, because they are tired of the partisan rancor.


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Wednesdays Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 08:57 AM
Response to Original message
25. Yeah, makes you wonder if the "Impeachment off the table" strategy
is backfiring. So much for keeping the powder dry. :eyes: The outlook would probably be much different if someone bothered to prosecute some of the administration's criminals.

If we lose this one, the courts--all the way up to the SCOTUS--will be stacked from top to bottom with Bushbots. And Ruth Bader Ginsburg's health is questionable, so we could see a 7-1 Supreme Court by 2012 or sooner.

I agree in spirit, but really, I'm not about to give up until November 5th. After that, I think stronger measures are in order.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LibraLiz1973 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 09:13 AM
Response to Reply #25
34. Wednedays, you just hit on so much that I think too.
We should have impeached. It should NEVER have been taken off the table
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
coalition_unwilling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 08:58 AM
Response to Original message
27. Keep your chin up and your gaze
focused on TURNOUT!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NoFederales Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 09:06 AM
Response to Original message
28. Be prepared for an unending assault of the media, biased against Obama/Biden
and praising McCain/Palin. Keeping it "close" to steal the election is what it's all about.

The only hope is to maintain organization locally to ensure massive voter turnout, which I believe will favor Obama/Biden, but it has to happen everywhere. We have to trust the Obama/Biden campaign to stay relentlessly on the ISSUES to influence electoral votes.

This feeling of overwhelmed despair is like playing in a rigged game--you know it's rigged, but you have to make it through--it is not about sportmanship anymore, it's about winning at all costs. Be mean, be nasty, let the Obama/Biden campaign play it their way, but for us "locals" it's about down and dirty--don't play nicey-nicey with fools.

NoFederales
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
krkaufman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 09:07 AM
Response to Original message
30. Yep. Same as Bush. All image and the media isn't digging deep enough.
Our news media sucks.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LibraLiz1973 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 09:14 AM
Response to Reply #30
35. But McCain sucks! And Palin sucks! Their images SUCK!
Especially hers. McCain is a grumpy old man who long ago lost the label of Maverick.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
onefreespiritedchick Donating Member (846 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 09:11 AM
Response to Original message
33. For weeks, we heard that Obama wasn't experienced enough
He was an unknown. Sorry, I think we know the truth now, and we did then, but it's blatantly obvious, the color of his skin puts many off sadly. This country, just sickens me and I am angry also. I'm trying to remain positive and will get back on track of course, but I need to vent at the moment, as well.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LibraLiz1973 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 09:15 AM
Response to Reply #33
36. See, some of that is what I'm thinking.
She has LESS experience than Obama, or of most any of McCain's running mate choices, but the color of her skin gives her a pass on experience.


:banghead:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 09:38 AM
Response to Reply #33
44. Yes--Obama wasn't "experienced" enough, people weren't familiar
enough with him because even after 20 months of campaigning, he was too "new" and unfamiliar. And then they dig up a lady that no one knows, with an extremely slim record and no history on national or international policy and issues, and people instantly trust her and think she's worthy--that's the difference between a white Republican and a black Democrat.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Pacifist Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 09:17 AM
Response to Original message
38. I don't think that many people are stupid. I think that many polls are fixed.
But then I've been sporting a tinfoil hat about the integrity of our election process for quite awhile now.

Don't get me wrong. We've got plenty of complacent stupid Americans. I just don't think it's as close as it being reported. I think the polls are what they are to explain away a rigged result. Which is why record high Dem turnout and independent audits are going to be beyond vital and crucial.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
the_real_38 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 09:22 AM
Response to Original message
39. There's be no Sarah Palin if Obama had picked Hillary Clinton...
... Barack was arrogant - he thought that he could win no matter what he did. Kennedy didn't want to pick LBJ for VP, but he knew he needed him to win the South. And Obama needed Clinton to unify the party, and bring her voters into a coalition.

"If I were Obama & Joe Biden right now, I'd be banging my head on a fucking table. People REALLY are FUCKING STUPID."

If I were Obama and Biden, I'd be out campaigning and trying to spread my message. I'd be trying to spell out the difference between the type of America we're going to suffer through if McCain gets elected, versus what we could have if Obama is elected. But if they lose, Obama has no one to blame but himself - he had too many advantages in this race to lose.

For his part, McCain rolled the dice, and it's paid off (so far).
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 09:34 AM
Response to Reply #39
43. Dumb. As soon as Obama would have put Hillary on the ticket, the
RW would have gone into overdrive. They let up on her and even supported her during the primaries because they didn't want Obama to win. But she (and Bill) would have been instantly villified once she became a threat to the GOP again. Biden wasn't a big game-changer so far in terms of votes or poll numbers, but he's also not a big target. And most Dems who voted for Hillary are now for Obama.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
the_real_38 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 09:42 AM
Response to Reply #43
46. No, not 'dumb'.
You left out the part about McCain not picking Palin under those conditions. That's what's got the RW in overdrive. And 'most Dems who voted for Hillary' would be 'even more Dems who voted for Hillary'. Some of the swing voters who voted for Clinton during the primaries are going over to Palin on cultural issues.

If you have a dispute with a post, please respond to the points. And put a little thought into it, before you engage in the weakest form of argument - just calling out names like 'dumb'.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 09:53 AM
Response to Reply #46
47. If I think something's dumb, I say so. And I thought I reasoned out
Edited on Mon Sep-08-08 09:53 AM by wienerdoggie
my position pretty well. BTW, I doubt that swing voters who may have backed Hillary are going for Palin on "cultural issues", considering that Hillary is identical to Obama on "cultural issues". We don't know yet if McLoon's poll numbers are due to nothing more than convention bounce, and there is polling evidence that choosing Palin cost him almost as much support as he gained with her. She's got the neanderthal base fired up--but unless the polls REALLY start breaking McLoonie's way after this week, there's no way to conclude just yet that his selection of her was a net positive in terms of attracting MORE than the GOP base.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bowens43 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 09:29 AM
Response to Original message
40. To paraphrase Adlai Stevenson
'All thinking people will vote for Obama. That's not enough, he needs a majority'.

The about half of the American people are apathetic idiots who are not able to comprehend anything more in depth then a 30 second sound-bite. They would rather have a President that they would be comfortable drinking a beer with then a President who is truly exceptional.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
agincourt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 09:31 AM
Response to Original message
41. Palin will energize the freeper troll base.
I live in Nebraska, I have the misfortune of working with mouth breathing, Limbaugh excrement devouring minions. For some ungodly reason they think McCain is Abbie Hoffmann and Palin is the second coming of Ronald Reagen. Palin will up the popular vote in freepertrollville. However in swing states she may turn people away from the Republican party who might have gotten fooled into thinking McCain was some kind of moderate. The Democrats cannot let her appear cuddly like Laura Bush got away with for years. If they show her as the RW nutcase she is with attack ads, hell just show her on film praising Bush would help, she can solidify some blues states even though she'll bring out more knuckle dragger votes in some states. The electoral college has to be the focus now.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Zombie2 Donating Member (678 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 09:41 AM
Response to Original message
45. A nation full of IGNORANT BIGOTS?
Welp... My mom is more of a bigot than I had originally thought.

She hates McSame and sides with Obama on the issues... yet, still refers to Obama as "the less of two evils". She was disgusted with the RNC and enjoyed the DNC, but he's black.... WtFUCK! She tells me she's still going to vote Obama, but I'm not so sure that I believe her. Yesterday, she went on and on about how 3 or 4 of her cousins don't like McSame one bit, but they wont vote for a black man, PERIOD. She even asked me if I would go talk to the worst of the bunch about Obama, in order to try to get her cousin to vote... but for fuck sakes, I really don't want to speak with any of them ever again.

It pisses me off to no end! :grr:

On the up side... my dad loves Obama. Race is NOT an issue with him. My parents have been divorced for about 25 year now.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TuxedoKat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 10:20 AM
Response to Original message
48. My thoughts...
I think one reason it is so hard and that Barack is not showing being further ahead in the polls is because historically it has always been harder for African Americans to get ahead so why should the election be any different? Barack doesn't have to work just twice as hard to get ahead but ten times as hard in every area! That is why I/we have to work ten times harder too, to ensure he gets elected. In 2004, I managed to go out of state once to register voters. This time I plan to go on one day trip to a swing state to canvass and register voters every weekend until the election. I've given way more money this time too. This election is that important and we can't just let Barack down, we can't let our families, children or country down, at least not without putting forth our best effort.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ElboRuum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 10:26 AM
Response to Original message
49. Please take a few deep breaths...
Polls, schmolls. Polls are frequently sampled in a biased manner in the first place, so please relax. The debates are going to be the big tell anyway. Yes, the MSM is fawning over Palin, we know this. We expected this. The only thing that could have made these numbers happen, however, is a lopsided sample... that is, unless there was a MASS DEFECTION of Obama voters. Do you believe that this defection is at all possible? And if Palin doesn't get in front of a microphone soon, she's not going to be able to cushion herself from the intense drubbing Biden's going to give her in the debates.

Worry if you must, but every election that has occurred in recent memory has been like this. Every single one.

OK, maybe that IS cause for worry.

But I don't even think the real campaign has started yet. We just found out who the nominees actually were not more than a week ago.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
wowimthere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 10:27 AM
Response to Original message
50. Do not succumb to your emotions. You must believe Obama has this all sewed up.
It's not over-confidence. It is belief. Obama's organization is better run than McCain's. Obama has the numbers. They don't look like they're sweating at all. Why? Because they have more than the traditional metric for reaching the magic number of states. It's not going to be what the Republicans think. Obama will outsmart them. Like Obama said... they won't even know what hit them. Stop worrying and look at him.

Also, I wouldn't read so much into those daily tracking polls.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
totodeinhere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 10:32 AM
Response to Reply #50
52. Yes, we should believe but we should also avoid overconfidence.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LibraLiz1973 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 10:36 AM
Response to Reply #50
54. You know, after reading what all of you have said...
I actually REALLY feel better.

I donated another $50 this AM... will throw in another $50 at the end of the week.
I'm going to phone bank. I'm going to register voters.

Fuck em. They are NOT stealing or taking this thing from us again.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Shine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 10:33 AM
Response to Original message
53. Deep cleansing Breath........let go of the Fear....hold the vision.
:hug:
Take some action, get out there and volunteer your time. Make some calls. Register some new voters. Have some conversations. Educate yourself and others. Speak out, with confidence and positive energy. Negativism will get you NO WHERE and only bring you down. I guarantee if you do any or all of those things your energy and feelings will shift.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
OwnedByFerrets Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 10:47 AM
Response to Original message
55. I feel your anguish.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
barack the house Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 10:52 AM
Response to Original message
56. Perfectly understand where you are coming from all we can do is work hard and ...pray.
Yep, controversail pray but what we got left.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
beachmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 11:02 AM
Response to Original message
57. I knew it as soon as I saw her speech Wed. night. You have to realize
that most people just don't want to deal with issues. Most seem to think that whoever is President has no bearing on their lives, like a lack of health insurance. It's bizarre but true. For them, this is "American Idol". Obama was the new guy for a while, now it is Sarah Palin. I hated that speech for everything it stood for, and I also knew a lot of Americans would like it. This is just the reality of a country not well versed in civics.

I think Obama is going to have to reach deep within in order to win this thing. He is going to have to bear his soul in those debates about what kind of grit he is made of. Otherwise, it is curtains for us, except the fact that we are going to have greater majorities in Congress. That is the one thing we can probably count on.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SmokingJacket Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 11:08 AM
Response to Original message
59. Yes. I feel the same way.
Remember how, just months after Bush "won" in 2004, his approval rating was down around 25% or something? Who ARE these people who vote for someone with his track record, and then are like, "Shit, he really DOES suck!"

You know it will be the same if McCain wins. This country needs a genius to turn it around, and McCain ain't one. The situation will get worse and worse and worse and his approval numbers will be in the toilet, too.

I'm going to feel like slapping some people!! :banghead:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LibraLiz1973 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #59
61. I want to start slapping people right now
Though I really do feel better after reading many of the responses here.
Obama & Biden aren't quitting on us, and I wont quit on them.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Carrieyazel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 02:00 PM
Response to Original message
63. The idiot sheep see McCain as quite different than Shrub. That's the reality.
If we were running against Birdshot Dick: easy victory for Obama.

If Shrub was running again: easy victory for Obama, just the same.

If the Pukes had put up Romney, Ghouliani, Thompson or if George Allen hadn't macacaed himself out of the whole thing two years ago, we'd be gliding into this fall.

But they put up McCain, and this was never going to be easy.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NightOwwl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 02:07 PM
Response to Original message
64. If McCain wins this thing
I'm out of here. Seriously.

I will not be a party to the continuing decline of America.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TooRaLoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 02:11 PM
Response to Reply #64
66. I would seriously have to consider it, too.
It would drive me mad to stay in a country that I knew was half-full of hate-mongering idiots. I felt it was my duty to stay through W. But I couldn't do it yet again. I'm single with no kids - not exactly chained to The States.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TooRaLoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 02:08 PM
Response to Original message
65. Your post just reminded me
that I can register now that I've finally gotten a driver's license where I live. Going to do that today.

Keep your confidence - these polls fluctuations are normal - but it ain't gonna last. Palin's got more skeletons then the costume shop.

:hug:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Not the Only One Donating Member (617 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 02:19 PM
Response to Original message
68. We can't have it both ways
In 1992 and going forward, all of the "Year of the Woman" stuff we used was fundamentally no different. It was all about women having something special to offer because of their unique life experiences as a result of their having a vagina, which included motherhood. These candidates were selling a more maternal domestic and foreign policy. And men were seen as just not qualified the way these women were qualified, and it was all about their sex. Patty Murray embraced the Mom in Tennis Shoes tag.

People vote for candidates for reasons that are odd to others. JFK beat Nixon in a very close election because he looked better on TV. Looking better on TV doesn't really have anything to do with actual qualifications. It's lookism, actually. It's something that people in the workforce have to deal with all the time.

We just have to keep at it and hope for the best.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ejbr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 02:26 PM
Response to Original message
69. After the 2004 election,
even with the Repigs stealing it in their various ways, I am surprised that you did not completely, unequivocally and truly understand that indeed, Americans are FUCKING STUPID! However, I think you got the jist of it now. Welcome to the nightmare.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KneelBeforeZod Donating Member (146 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 02:57 PM
Response to Original message
71. I don't disagree with you ...
I don't disagree with you overall. I think non-millionaires would certainly benefit more from an Obama Presidency. I think people would be foolish to support John McCain. I think Sarah Palin is universally wrong. But, I do not agree that good people cannot disagree with my assessment of McCain or Palin. I am also very resistant to the suggestion that anyone not voting for Obama is necessarily a racist. Perhaps they don't share his values, or our values.

Genuine people can have honest disagreements about a great many things. Many in the middle class see tax cuts for the rich as an economic boon for everyone (rich people give out jobs, blah, blah). Many in the middle class won't vote for tax hikes on the rich because they think they'll be rich eventually. Many believe that homosexuality is a sin, that abortion is the willful destruction of a human life, and that the only way to guarantee safety from terrorism is to go on the offensive.

I disagree with them on each of those sentiments. I do not believe that the rights of a fetus vest at conception. I believe individuals can choose whatever sexual proclivities they prefer. I believe that terrorism is the natural result of an overzealous American and Israeli foreign policy. I believe tax cuts benefit only the rich, at the expense of the rest.

However -- someone holding the views I listed above would not vote for Barack Obama. They'd vote for John McCain. And, it would have nothing to do with racism. This is not to deny that racism exists ... just to point out that "racism" is not the ONLY logical explanation for voting against Obama.

You say you cannot fathom how someone could vote for McCain/Palin ... and I say, someone whose values are opposite of yours would say the same about you voting for Obama/Biden. It is no less ridiculous to assume their vote is "racist" than to assume your vote for Obama is sexist simply because Palin is a woman.

Z
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AZBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 03:03 PM
Response to Original message
72. None of us can do another 4 years of this shit. We need to work now and work hard.
I understand your frustration and astonishment because I was there myself. But channel that energy into geting Obama elected and you'll feel better, I know I did! :D
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
demodonkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-09-08 05:50 AM
Response to Original message
74. Remember we DID NOT LOSE in 2000 or 2004. It was stolen. We have to work hard or 2008 will be too!
Edited on Tue Sep-09-08 05:51 AM by demodonkey

Get people registered to vote NOW.

Tell everyone already registered to CHECK THEIR VOTER REGISTRATIONS IN THE NEXT 2 WEEKS.

Get people out on election day -- I don't care if it's 25 below and pouring ice rain -- VOTE!!

Join an election protection organization and help now and on e-day.


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RFKHumphreyObama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-09-08 06:40 AM
Response to Original message
75. Sorry, slightly off-topic but your first paragraph reminded me of something
Edited on Tue Sep-09-08 06:41 AM by socialdemocrat1981
You are so right about the media emphasis on Palin and her being a "hockey mom of five" and how this brings something to the table. But Biden has something to bring to the table as well in terms of life experience

He took the oath of Senator at his child's hospital bedside and commuted to and from Washington to Delaware every day because he wanted to see his children and be with them as much as possible. Until he remarried Jill Biden, he took on the role and responsibilities of a single father while at the same time rising through the ranks of Washington and serving his state effectively. He raised two young kids who have turned into fine young men who are a testament to his parenting skills.

It is something that Biden never emphasizes because of his modesty and decency but I think it needs to be said

Yes, Palin may be a mother of five and I do not question or underestimate her life experience in regards to her role a a mother. But she's hardly unique in bringing something to the table in relation to parenting
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Voltaire99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-09-08 06:47 AM
Response to Original message
76. Liz, Liz, Liz
I scarcely have the heart to tell you, but somebody had better: it's only an election. Only a ceremony. In an increasingly pointless democracy-turned-oligarchy.

But it will occur and if you believe in learning from history, consult it. Americans, a deeply conservative, conformist and fearful people, often have gone for the safe bet. That's what they do. I kind of expect they will again, as in '52, as in '72, and since.

You're pulling your hair out over people who'd as soon drive over you in their SUVs as educate themselves, discover their self-interest or look beyond their superstitions and prejudices.

Do you think they worry for a second, even a second, out in Sarah Palin Land, about you?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
demokatgurrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-09-08 07:46 AM
Response to Original message
77. Sorry, can't help you because I'm right there with
you. check this out, from PHILLY ( I posted it elsewhere last night)



Biden gets mixed welcome in Northeast
Local Dem leaders say race is issue for many voters
By DAVE DAVIES
Philadelphia Daily News

daviesd@phillynews.com 215-854-2595

DEMOCRATIC vice-presidential nominee Joe Biden went stumping for votes yesterday in Northeast Philadelphia, where Democrats need to earn the love of Democrats who voted overwhelmingly for Hillary Clinton over Barack Obama in the April primary.
He worked a diner, gave a rousing speech on bread-and-butter issues at a union hall, and reeled off a memorable line tying the Republican candidate to the unpopular team in the White House.

"My friend John McCain and George Bush are joined at the hip," Biden said. "And we need a hip replacement very, very badly."

So how is the ticket doing with the Northeast's white working and middle-class voters?

Mike McAleer, the veteran Democratic ward leader of the 66th ward in the far Northeast, said Obama and Biden haven't closed the deal yet.

"The Dunkin' Donut crowd tells me that we've got everything going for us but Obama," McAleer said. "They can't give me a direct answer. Do I have them right now in the 66th ward? No. But I got 60 days to get them."

Asked what the problem is with Obama, McAleer paused and said: "It's his color . . . I tell them he's half white and half black. He's got a better perspective for everything in this country." ....

more:

http://www.philly.com/philly/hp/news_update/27947004.html
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Wed May 01st 2024, 12:22 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC