If life begins at conception, do identical twins have half a soul?

If life begins at conception, do identical twins have half a soul? (I somehow doubt Charlie Gibson will be asking Caribou Barbie this question.)

Okay... let's say an ovum becomes a person with a soul at the moment of conception, ie. the moment of union with a sperm cell. (That, rather than uterine implantation, is how extreme anti-choicers define conception. For instance, an IUD is said to destroy a person.)

Identical twins start out as one fertilized ovum. The split into two individuals occurs well AFTER conception.


No wonder these folks oppose science education!

Cut that out. ;)

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life begins when the newborn takes the first breathe of air and lives to take another.

breathing air is life. when you stop breathing, your life stops.

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wow

I don't see any way around that. We have an innate category of "human" that, at the very least, describes a visible entity of some sort... something capable of overt interaction with the world.

If someone handed you a microscope slide and said, "here is a cocker spaniel" nobody would accept the description.

Yet countless millions call certain microscopic entities human beings.

It's very odd...

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...upon conception. See twin type #6 at the below link:

http://multiples.about.com/od/funfacts/tp/uniquetwins.htm

the facts. On Ash Wednesday the Catholics are reminded: "Remember man that thou aren't dust and unto dust thou shall return."
No one wants to accept this.

The medically accurate definition of conception is upon implantation of the fertlized egg in the uterus.

The Sarah Palin types believe that an IUD (which prevents the implantation you describe) causes abortion of a living person, so they clearly define ferilization as conception.

But I edited the OP to clarify that point.

But it just ain't so. Medically accepted fact is that pregnancy begins at implantation, period.

and the usual religious definition - or should we say 'definition used by religious pro-life campaigners', as it is certainly not used this way by all religious people.

If one uses the religious campaigner's definition of conception, then one would have to accept that God aborts about 70% of conceptions. And the question of whether a fertilized egg that never implants, or which never develops into a recognizable embryo, has a soul is rather head-exploding.

The extreme opposition to stem cell research and the like indicates that religious 'pro-life' campaigners do not generally use the medical definition of conception.

The other one becomes the "Evil" twin...

Which would make sense in that one of them gets the soul and the other doesn't.

in other words, I would not presume to know the answer to that theosophical question. :D

I'd like to meet him.

It's all just a matter of opinion anyway, right? You can find 'scientists' who say what you want to hear... so there!

Genetically it becomes a separate being from the mother at conception. That is science, not religion. It is different completely from both the mother and father genetically at that time. Now here is where it gets difficult for people. Some believe in a soul and it is the soul that brings actual "life" to the child. Depending on one's belief it can happen at conception, at implantation, when the mother first feels it, when it can live outside the mother, or when it takes its first breath. We will never all agree on when it becomes a person because that is completely based on one's faith. Which is fine, as I respect all religious beliefs. I just don't want them imposing those beliefs on me.

Which is why I believe that my personal views on abortion don't matter. What matters is that everyone is allowed their own freedom to choose their own way in the matter. Every situation is unique and is between the woman and her higher power, doctor, family, or conscience. It is frankly no business of ours or the state. If someone is against abortion then help individual women who are struggling... Don't force them to do what you want. It is not about babies for these people... It is about control.

Identical twins are genetically identical, but become unique beings.

I would think that the same would apply as before though. They are still genetically separate from the mother from conception, but when their unique personhood begins is still up for grabs and always will be. It could be any of what I posted before, or nothing more than how they are raised. Nature vs nurture and the combination of the two. Only personal beliefs will ever define when "life" truly begins. Which is why using faith to legally determine this timing can never work. Forcing personal beliefs on others has never had anything but disasterous consequences. If the government can outlaw abortion based on personal beliefs, then they can also make abortion legally mandatory based on personal beliefs. It's happened before...

My 6 month old identicals would like to know as well ;-)

The sperm fertilizes the egg but then all hell breaks loose and it is not life. It is simply not true that life begins at conception. Things are not black and white.

And there is big ambiguity about whether 'conception' means fertilization alone, or fertilization and implantation. Doctors usually mean the latter, but religious campaigners usually mean the former. It is generally believed that only about 30% of fertilized eggs survive to birth. The proportion goes up considerably after implantation - though even then many embryos do not even survive to be clinically recognized pregnancies.

I LOVE IT!!!!

I'll be sure to file this one away. I love the logic puzzles that drive the Xtians nuts. This one will give them fits for years.

Nice!

J

I believe that life begins at conception.

I don't buy into the soul concept at all.

Life under my definition is the ability for an organism to grow. A split ovum (identical twins) means there are two living organisms instead of one.

So with twins, starting out you have one interface that splits in to two equally viable interfaces.

Now the point at which the soul is using this interface and thus rendering the destruction of it murder is another matter altogether.

(my husband is the expert on this, not me, but I believe this is in Buddhist and other traditions, inclduing Hinduism, as the person accepts a new incarnation slowly. The soul or innerness develops over years in early childhood, and is not a simplistic idea but a rather complex one in these traditions.

I have no idea what Palin's response would be!

*searches through the Bible in vain for algebraic references*

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chimera_(genetics)

And if one of these double soul blessed individuals happens to have both genders, who would the fundies let them marry?