Let me tell you about pentecostals of the dominionist stripe.

I'm somewhat of an expert on this particular critter since I was raised in the Assembly of God church and left it when I was 18. I've seen many posts mocking these people for their beliefs. Personally I think all sects in all relgions have beliefs which can be categorized as equally strange. I just want to clue you in on something though. Believing in the Second Coming is one thing, but there is a fundamental error in teaching among these people now. Those who would try to force a political agenda to usher in the Second Coming are at odds with the teaching of the church I grew up in.

I will refer you to the following scriptures:

"But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only" (Matthew 24:36).

"Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh. Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season? Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing" (Matthew 24:42-46 KJV).

"Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh" (Matthew 25:13).

"And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power" (Acts 1:7).

Now for the most strident among you who mock, this will probably serve as a red flag. I am telling you that this type of teaching was considered blasphemous when I was a young girl because you presumed to know the mind of God. I'm not a practicing anything right now and have little use for organized religions having lived in fundamentalist societies of more than one flavor. I am telling you that before you mock in a way that encourages a coalescing of support behind this Palin person, you need to understand the variance of teaching even within this one denomination. Her church is radical--extreme even--in its teachings.

I don't know if anyone will see this little comment as useful but I can hear the mockery with the ear of one who fully understands the teachings of the denomination and the distortions...and I know how defensive believers of this stripe were when I was a young person. The RW gave those people a voice and some modicum of acceptance in society whereas before they were somewhat shunned by the religious mainstream. They also gave them power. There are many people out here who, while not practicing the extreme interpretation of that Palin's church has given scripture, will get where it is coming from and sympathize. Some will be offended by it though.


Flame if you will. I don't really care. I just think it helps to understand subtleties of others belief systems.

That doesn't stop the modern extremists from thinking they can politically alter the world to make the circumstances "right" for the return of Jesus. As you state, this is far from the doctrines that prevailed just 25 years ago. To put it colloquially, Jesus told his followers "don't you worry your head about when I will return, because no one will know, and that's not what I want you worrying about."

This new group in the fundie world is lost in its own dogma.

Like you, I consider all religions largely superstitutions based upon myths and legends, but there's a difference between those which actively try to take over the political world and those who don't.

Him?

:dilemma:

you feel are troubling. It seems the church she is connected to is very extreme and she also seems to blur the lines of religion and politics. I get the feeling she wants to legislate all her religious beliefs and thinks that all political activity can be explained as a religious event.

really concern me. It is a nihilistic belief and very destructive. You know those cultists who committed suicide when Hale-Boppe came through? Not a whole lot different, except success will take out a whole lot of the world's population as well.

Referring you to this thread as well:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x6990188

Also legislating one's own religious beliefs. Separation of church and state please.

Thanks for the link.

I grew up among many fundamentalists, and they would be astounded at the teachings of these Churches. Trying to "bring on" the rapture would have been considered heresy.

I have often been puzzled by the various religious groups, starting with the Millerites, who insisted that they knew when the Second Coming would take place, because I remembered these Bible passages.

My fear is that someone who really believes this might become in a position of power where they could "help" things along by pushing a button. I've heard this same concern voiced by others, including some conservatives, who will not be voting for Palin this year.

and they "interpret the signs differently." Shoot, I copied and pasted several comments at a local news messageboard where the fundies are out in full force, talking about how God has commanded them to smite their enemies (and, their enemies are anyone who isn't white and Republican, btw).

Many of them interpret Palin's use of the word "servant" so frequently as being code that she is one of them (see second quote above).

I'm interested in learning more about how what you grew up with became splintered into the "end days" crowd. I thought it was one big morphing process. I honestly haven't met anyone who identifies with the terms "evangelical" and "fundamentalist" NOT believing in the Rapture.

Thanks for trying to enlighten us. :)

"Rambo Jesus" image they've cultivated. However, the teachings I grew up with held that when Jesus died on the cross the veil in the temple was rent in two doing away with the old laws and making way for the teaching of the new--basically the Golden Rule. Smiting was not an act of a loving God or his son. I think these newer teachings are a product of the television era and brought about through corrupt and venal televangelists to keep people tuned in and coffers full to support their lifestyles. Who better to want political henchmen in their pockets than they who would no more "give away all that they have" and follow the teachings of Jesus.

swayed by a God of fear rather than a God of Love, with the advent of the Moral Majority. That seemed to be the real kick-start for this movement.

and they "interpret the signs differently." Shoot, I copied and pasted several comments at a local news messageboard where the fundies are out in full force, talking about how God has commanded them to smite their enemies (and, their enemies are anyone who isn't white and Republican, btw).

Many of them interpret Palin's use of the word "servant" so frequently as being code that she is one of them (see second quote above).

I'm interested in learning more about how what you grew up with became splintered into the "end days" crowd. I thought it was one big morphing process. I honestly haven't met anyone who identifies with the terms "evangelical" and "fundamentalist" NOT believing in the Rapture.

Thanks for trying to enlighten us. :)

The more we understand, the better our response.

I learned.

It was absolute blasphemy to presume that man could force the Hand of God. The ULTIMATE Sin of Pride, I think. 'Cause if you believe you can influence God's decision and rush His judgment, then you are in effect making yourself equal to Him and putting yourself on His level. Last time I remember hearing of somebody who did that, the name was of a onetime most-favored archangel, Lucifer, and we know where he wound up.

It used to be taught that this was the worst of sins, above all other transgressions. A person who blasphemed was expelled from of the congregation and seen to be beyond God's mercy or redemption. This is why I find these people and their beliefs now bizarre and extreme. A very basic tenet has been corrupted and subverted for political and financial gain. I think there is now a whole generation which has been raised with this new dogma. A backlash will come someday. We may not live to see it, but it will come.

don't the Assemblies of God believe in racial segregation? That the black race was born from one of Abraham's sons seeing him naked? I read a book on the founder of one of these religions 20 years ago and that stood out in my mind.

I do know the teaching regarding Abraham's son you are referring to. Segregation was not taught or promoted in the church i attended as a child. I can't speak to teachings in other churches, just that one.

And they never preached that particular myth in my recollection. I must have gone in a kinder, gentler, pentacostal church time. They didn't even preach intolerance of gays, but there was an obvious obsession with end time prophecy. That is what makes them most dangerous. Particularly since many have adopted this militant "fight the oppressors of Jesus" attitude.

We had one prominent Filipino family, a couple black families and I think our preacher was actually part Samoan. Again, the church may have become more insane over the years. The potential was always there.

I think the changes in the denomination reflect the influence of corrupt leaders and their agendas. It is not a matter of insanity, but of what will hold congregants. My ex-husband, a Muslim, used to say that the priest class in society could not be trusted or taken at their word because their jobs depended on the manipulation of words. I've carried that little bit of wisdom tucked away in my conscious for a couple of decades now. How many civilizations in history have fallen because the priest class were desparate to hold onto the power they were losing because the society had moved beyond the religion in sensibilties and needs? The last tool of a dying religion is fear and war.

"The curse of Ham" = Slavery

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curse_of_Ham

This is the excuse white supremacists and racist whites use to keep churches segregated, regardless of denomination, as is evidenced in this blog:

http://baptistsforbrown2008.wordpress.com/2007/07/19/the-curse-of-ham-why-barack-hussein-oboma-will-never-be-president/

From my years married to an End Timer, I know that they believe there are signs in the Bible of God's coming (or Jesus, they don't seem to differentiate between the two at times) and they work to make sure those events happen in their lifetime. Forget that "no one knows but God"--that was so yesterday.

Somebody with more recent experience that I have can list what those signs are. After I got out of that marriage I forgot alot of that stuff--the whole thing turned me off of Christianity--and I used to rebut the ex's pastor's sermons and make him read the actual book for himself.

And anyone who mocks these people, you do so at your own risk. There are a lot more of them than you think, and some of them go to more mainstream churches, so they are under the radar, so to speak.

I agree, and was troubled with Keith's coverage of this last night. His tone, to me, was mocking, derisive, and sarcastic. I love Keith, but I think he made a big mistake, not in covering her/her church's beliefs, but that he did it in such a belittling manner. That will do nothing but motivate and energize her base. Not a good thing, imo. (btw, I'm a lady vet, too!:hi:)

Rapture is upon us. I just don't want my government operating that way.