Sarah Palin's pastor and the "Last Days"

I'm trying to understand this theology better:

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From http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/02/palins-church-may-have-sh_n_123205.html

(Her pastor Ed Kalnins) preaches repeatedly about the "end times" or "last days," an apocalyptic prophesy held by a small but vocal group of Christian leaders. During his appearance with Palin in June, he declared, "I believe Alaska is one of the refuge states in the last days, and hundreds of thousands of people are going to come to the state to seek refuge and the church has to be ready to minister to them."
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Wouldn't members of his church be raptured up to heaven, and therefore unable to help non-believers-like-me during the "Last Days"?

there are three basic kinds of Christian end of the world nuts, who expect a different order of events)

-pre-tribulation rapture people (this is the scenario in Left Behind, and thus the most popular) think that society generally goes to hell in a handbasket, the Church gets raptured first, then the really crazy supernatural stuff happens, the anti-christ rules the earth, Jesus comes back and destroys the anti-christ, etc.

-post-tribulation rapture people think there's seven years of supernatural horribleness, then the rapture happens, then there's the final battle.

-millenial believers (technically, "dominionist" should refer only to this group) believe that the end happens only after a thousand years of Jesus' rein on earth, and their role is to lay the groundwork to make that kingdom a reality.

So as long as his belief system is one of the latter two, (probably the second) that would be consistent with Christians being oppressed and needing someplace safe and out of the way to hide- though in their scenario most are supposed to be martyred, so I'm not sure what the point is.

BTW, if you're ever trolling Rapture Ready, getting the pre- and post-tribbers to fight is great fun.

...in the "post-tribulation rapture" scenario?

Is the primary attraction of the books the evangelism? Or are they well-written?

several years ago. The story summaries on the box are misleading as there aren't any direct mentions of the ideology within. Unless you're familiar with the Left Behind series, and I wasn't at the time, you think you're renting a drama. Until you watch it. They're low-budget, poorly-acted (although they do have well-known actors in the starring role) and simple as all hell. I couldn't watch but a few minutes of it.

again. It's so bad I wouldn't even call it literature. I couldn't even get through one book let alone a series of them. They keep repeating ad nauseum. I think fans of the books get off on the gross blood and violence featured in them.

The books go a long ways in explaining why it is that today's "christians" are so mean and hateful. The first Jesus was a lamb, but when he comes back, he's gonna have a firebreathing sword in his mouth and will kill so many people the streets will become rivers of blood more than 10 feet high.

I kid you not. You have to see this shit to believe somebody actually wrote it. And for people to believe and hope in it...

I would never have guess other wise.

"The books go a long ways in explaining why it is that today's "christians" are so mean and hateful. The first Jesus was a lamb, but when he comes back, he's gonna have a firebreathing sword in his mouth and will kill so many people the streets will become rivers of blood more than 10 feet high." Sounds like a death cult.

COULDN'T REMEMBER which one !!

:crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy:

I say this simply because Ed Kalnins and others who believe in the Rapture are in for a rather shocking surprise. The whole End Times/Last Days matter is way more complicated then anyone realizes. Nothing is going to occur exactly like the doomsday sayers think it will. In fact, the funny thing about the way the world will end...

Um... it is more along the lines of what the human race chooses to do. As they say 'Fate is what you make yourself'. The future will be what it will be. The human race must come together and grow up. All the petty differences such as race, culture beliefs and how each person treat other must change. The tragic past history of ages long past must not be repeated or the human race will not survive. It is time to face this truth and realize this fact. The old saying, "Together we stand, divided we fall" applies and must be looked at with an open mind.

So please take this message to heart when I say, "The potential of the human race, as a whole, is limitless. So instead of beliving in an ending tell those who believe this way that the end is merely a new beginning."

is one gigantic headache. It's a classic example of what happens when one tries to selectively apply bits and pieces of scripture to suit an existing world view. The book is especially good at giving a church enough rope to hang itself. If you want to have some fun, read Revelation, especially the first part. In the opening of the book, John really blasts some churches who are not holding to Biblical teaching and are just kind of making it up as they go. Sound familiar?

The wild imagery and predictions of God's Wrath poured out on people we don't like makes it a great way to pack 'em in on Sunday. The real question is if depending on Revelation as a centerpiece of doctrine makes a church pleasing to God. It's a really good bit of work for reminding us what happens to folks who don't toe the line but it's not license to ignore what it is that Jesus is teaching. Walking in the footsteps of Jesus is considerably harder than just stocking up on supplies and ammo.

Revelation 22:18-19
18 "I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. 19 And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book."

I remember as a teenager going to fundieland in the 80s, "End Time Prophecy" was really big.

Even back then, I didn't buy any of it. If you look at what they use to "prove" that we're in the end times - war, famine, disease, etc etc, it's very vague. Even Jesus said that 'no man could know' when the end times would occur.

But then again, you don't expect fundies to actually pay attention to the words of Jesus, eh?

(and by the way, there was huge debate among the church fathers whether to include Revelations in the bible,in the 3rd century) he was writing about Rome,

But the fundamentalists believe this is a coded end times transcript.

If you really want to get them going, Ask them which creation narrative do the believe in. Genesis 1 or Genesis 2, you will have them going in circles. They are two separate creation stories.

Unfortunately we have some who use the Bible as a "magical" text, instead of a historical gift/

:shrug:

Still, I could use a new car when my 1990 Toyota finally gives out.