need help debunking rabid conservative relative

I don't think my brother is a fan of the current Republican ticket, so I initiated the conversation about the racist waffles - a topic I thought he and I would share similar ground on. But I was surprised when he came back and sent me comment about strict interpretations of the constitution and "socialist programs" that keep people lazy. I replied with a long piece about the consititution and then he sent me the email below.

I am hopeful that he can be reasoned with. I need help debunking the following email. Can someone counter this with some facts?

"I can also give a dissertation of of what was wrong with America when the 2 Cs were at the helm. Who was president when prime was 16 percent? Which president ignored the advice of the CIA to knock out Osama and possibly avoiding 9/11? Whether the trickle down theory works or not depends on what indicators you choose to look for or ignore. which recent president had the lowest unemployment rate for the last several decades? why was there such faint cries about the economy when people were raking in upwards of 200% profit for their homes? Who helped to "tear down this wall" that arguably stabilizing Europe and the East that presumptively facilitate this type of world economic growth and prosperity? Social engineering such as job corps and welfares, have we made any head ways since its inception? Sex education with condoms at the door? where is the compromise? Most conservative talk show hosts beat the drum to let corporations fail. they cried "no bailout". True Conservatives don't want bail outs?

It is unfair to place the entire economic debacle on the bush administration, especially when the 2 notable culprits are housing and oil prices whic create the perfect storm for a cyclical economic down turn. Should Bush shouldered all the blame for the subprime mess? Which side of the isle constantly pushed for equal housing opportunities despite a consumer's ability to pay? Liberal minds in Congress created this need to have a "level the playing field" and hence relaxing banking regulations and the subprime mess is just a bastard fruit of this liberal thinking. Oil prices has an immediate and quite a profound impact on our petroleum driven economy. It is hypocritical of the left to label Bush ineffectual and yet credit his administration with so much power to affect market oil prices. Whatever happened to the line that bush got us fighting this unjust war to get his greedy hands on Iraqi oil? i am just getting started but i must stop.

I had a dear friend whom i bantered political issues with several years ago. He was just as passionate as you are but with fewer weapons in his arsenal. We were friends for nearly ten year. we traded emails back and forth on social and political issue. Neither of us are on speaking terms any more. that was the fall of 2002. I have no idea where he is at now. I learned several good lessons. my words will only fuel your passion and at some point it will get personal, if not you then me. it always does. I should never discuss politics or religion beyong what is good humor, especially with folks i care about. It is difficult to separate the emotion and we tend to new set of presuppositons about our political opposition that will eventually affects how you relate to that person. it is just isn't worth it for me to take that risk which is why i thought long and hard about whether to fully engage your curiousity.

lets just agree to disagree. you are too important to me."

I'd tell him he's sorely misguided and leave it at that

and very true .

Give him your opinion, then agree to disagree. People like this are too far down the rabbit hole to be convinced, and I'm sure you will probably damage your relationship if you push him too hard.

EVEN CLOSE." -Michael Kingsley-

1). FEDERAL SPENDING: since 1960 Republicans increased Federal Spending by 71% more than have Democrats

2). FEDERAL DEBT: since 1960 Republicans have increased the National debt by 100% more per year than have Democrats.

3). GROSS DOMESTIC PRODUCT: since 1921, adjusted for inflation, Democrats out-produce Republicans by 43% . Starting in 1940 the Democratic advantage is 23% better.

4). REAL PER CAPITA INCOME: since 1960 Democrats have outperformed Republicans by 30%. (This is perhaps the most important economic statistic of all)

5). INFLATION: since 1960, Democrats outperform Republicans 3.13% to 3.89%

6). UNEMPLOYMENT: since 1960 it decreases in an average Democratic year by 0.3% to 5.33%, and increases in average Republican year by 1.1% to 6.38%.

7). JOB CREATION: from 1945 to 2003, Democrats produced 174,200 jobs per month, Republicans have only produced 60,600 per month. Every time a Democrat succeeds a Republican, job creation soars. Every time a Republican succeeds a Democrat job creation plummets. NO EXCEPTIONS!

8). DOW JONES AVERAGE: since 1921 the DOW has increased by 52% more under Democratic administrations

9). THE BOND MARKET: since 1940 the value of 10 year Treasury bonds rose 1.2% under Democrats and fell 0.5% under Republicans


SOURCES-Bureau of Labor Statistics, Economic Policy Institute, Christian Science Monitor, “The Los Angles Times -Michael Kingsley-

by mike kohr 3/7/2006

RESULTS MATTER, VOTE DEMOCRATIC!

Dennis Galetti’s letter to the editor, appropriately entitled “Blunders,” criticized a Copley News editorial about deficit spending and erroneously blames the current hemorrhage of Federal spending on the war against terror.
Bush’s economic policy is the single largest cause of the exploding national deficit. Federal domestic discretionary spending has exploded under Bush and his budget will add $1.3 trillion to the National Debt over the next decade. “The Saint Petersburg Times,” calls Bush’s debt reduction plan “Deficit Deceit,” noting that Bush’s privatization of Social Security alone, will add an additional $2 trillion to the national debt over 20 years.
Bush’s economic policy, in his first year turned the greatest surplus in history to the greatest deficit in history, a swing of over $500 billion in a single year. Secretary of the Treasury, Paul O’Neil raised alarm but was dismissed by Dick Cheney who said, “Reagan proved that deficits don’t matter.”
Deficits do matter and have real consequences. Economic historian, J. Bradford DeLong of the University of California, wrote “Reagan’s economic policy was a disaster … and the deficits slowed economic growth in the 1980's significantly.” Reagan’s own member of the Council of Economic Advisors, William A. Niskanen, notes that deficits make us, “….terribly dependant and terribly vulnerable.”
Author Michael Kinsley writes, since 1960, Republican administrations have increased Federal spending by $60 billion a year, nearly double that of Democrats. National debt has increased by $200 billion per year under Republicans, twice the increase of Democrats. The results are predictable. GDP (adjusted for inflation) averages $212 billion for Democrats only $165 billion for Republicans. Democratic economic policy increases real per capita income for individuals at a rate 30% better than Republicans. Democrats outperform Republicans on inflation 3.13% to 3.89%. Republican policies result in increases in unemployment at an average of 6.38% as opposed to falling unemployment when Democrats take office, achieving an average of 5.33%.
Kinsley wrote, ”The party with the best record of serving Republican economic values are the Democrats. And it isn’t even close.”
Fiscal responsibility has its rewards beyond the numbers noted above. CNN reported that the Clinton administration balanced the budget, and paid off $355 billion of the National Debt. The interest saved on paying down this debt added 54 years to the fiscal solvency of Social Security. When Bush tells us he wants to save Social Security he is telling us in effect, he wants to save it from himself, hoping to be the hero of his own self-inflicted disaster.
The National Debt is over $7,762,096,350,500.00, growing by over $1.68 billion per day, a birth tax of $26,213.97 for every man, woman and child in the country. By 2030, Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid will grow to the size of today’s ENTIRE Federal budget. That light at the end of the tunnel is not day-light, it’s the headlight of a freight train named Credit Card Republicanism, coming to crush our children and grandchildren, to whom we are handing this crippling debt. Shame on us.

mike kohr

I will send him your reply and let the issue rest. We used to be closer siblings, but with marraiges, kids, careers, distance... we don't talk as much as we used to.

He's a decent man, a great dad and otherwise affable guy. I just wish he didn't fall for the thug propaganda and get so wound up in it.

agree to disagree... and maybe try to get him to write in Ron Paul or sit out this election.