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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-08 11:04 AM
Original message
I just talked to my plumber
I'll preface this by saying that several of his earlier comments this morning indicated to me that he might have a problem with non-white people. He didn't say anything direct enough for me to challenge, but I have my suspicions....

I didn't talk about politics with him while he was working on my pipes. Ok, I'm a wimp. Well, he did have a lot to say about the big box stores taking unfair advantage of small, locally owned plumbing businesses. The big box stores buy in bulk, so the suppliers give them better prices. I mentioned the big bail out of huge corporations. He expressed disgust for the situation.

As I was paying the bill in full, though, I said cheerfully that there was an election coming up. Very guarded response. Still cheerful (as I handed him the check) I asked, so who are you thinking about voting for? Chin stuck out belligerently, "I ain't saying."

Ok, I said, still cheerful. So then he says, "I'll tell you one thing. Whoever we get will be a pig in a poke." I responded, "Oh, I think that Obama would be a great president."

So the guy looks at me with these little mean eyes and I know exactly what he's thinking and he knows I know exactly what he's thinking and he decides not to go there. Instead, he says, "Well, I want to know more about this change. There was a young man once who was talking about change and the country he changed was Cuba."

I said, "Obama isn't anything like that." The plumber says, "Well, Obama says change but he hasn't told us anything about the change he has in mind." I said, "Actually, he's said quite a bit about his plans, and they sound very reasonable to me..."

The guy interrupts and says again. "Whoever we get will be a pig in a poke. I ain't made my mind up yet. I think I have, but I'm not quite sure." Then he says, "And anyway, my one little vote won't make a bit of difference." And he turned and walked away, not very friendly. I cheerfully waved goodbye.

My conclusions:

1. My plumber is very racist and is scared to death of actually voting for a black man for president.
2. In an effort to hide his racism from himself and everyone he meets, he's trying to convince himself that Obama is a communist, but even he knows that it's a ridiculous assertion.
3. He feels more comfortable saying that "Obama hasn't said what he means by change" because my plumber has carefully shielded himself from any source of information - TV, radio, internet, papers - that might give him those details.
4. Despite all this, my plumber is so disgusted with the Republicans and McCain he can't bring himself to say their names or say anything positive about them. The best he can come up with is, "Whoever we get will be a pig in a poke."
5. He probably won't vote. There is absolutely nothing motivating him to bother to vote for McCain.

This is very good news for Obama, the Democrats, and this country. The hard-core racist Republican base is so dispirited, they're referring to their own candidate as a pig in a poke!
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Curtland1015 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-08 11:07 AM
Response to Original message
1. He wades in shit all day, of course he's a Republican.
That said, as long as he ain't votin' for McLame.
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-08 11:14 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. Plumbers do difficult and essential work.
I'm not an elitest. I'm grateful to people who have the skills to do a difficult, often unpleasant job. They sure don't make millions or get bailed out when their companies fail.
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tsuki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-08 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #1
56. Plumbers protect the health of the nation. nt
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bunnies Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-08 11:09 AM
Response to Original message
2. My conclusion: Get a new plumber.
Why give this racist asshole your money?

And also... wth is "pig in a poke" supposed to mean?
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-08 11:12 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. That's an old country saying. Not sure what the background is on it.
It's not a compliment, though. Generally, it implies being cheated. You buy something thinking its one thing and it turns out to be no good - a pig in a poke. In other words, the guy says he doesn't trust either side.

Re: plumber. Not easy finding a progressive plumber around here. This is the first time I had this one out. I'll try another shop next time.
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ailsagirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-08 11:15 AM
Response to Reply #3
6. I found a progressive plumber awhile back-- it was great
Not the bill, of course, but he was cheerful, optimistic, and pro-Obama.

:hi:
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-08 11:17 AM
Response to Reply #6
9. I see you are in Canada. I'm in North Carolina. Nonetheless, I will try.
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ailsagirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-08 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #9
37. Actually, I need to update my profile--I am now in California :)
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jberryhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-08 11:15 AM
Response to Reply #2
7. Have you ever "let the cat out of the bag"?
Edited on Fri Sep-19-08 11:16 AM by jberryhill
This is a very old and very basic internationally-known idiom:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pig_in_a_poke

Pig-in-a-poke is an idiom that refers to a confidence trick originating in the Late Middle Ages, when meat was scarce but apparently rats and cats were not.

The scheme entailed the sale of a "suckling pig" in a "poke" (bag). The wriggling bag actually contained a cat—not particularly prized as a source of meat—that was sold—the bag unopened—to the victim. The French term acheter (un) chat en poche (to buy a cat in a bag) refers to the fact, as do many European equivalents, while the English expression refers to the appearance of the trick.<1>

A common colloquial expression in the English language, to "buy a pig in a poke," is to make a risky purchase without inspecting the item beforehand. The phrase can also be applied to accepting an idea or plan without a full understanding of its basis. Similar expressions exist in other languages, most of them meaning to buy a cat in a bag

...

This trick also appears to be the origin of the expressions "Let the cat out of the bag"<2>, meaning 'to reveal that which is secret' (if the would-be buyer opened the bag, the trick would be revealed)<3>; and "left holding the bag," meaning 'to find oneself with nothing for their efforts,' as the cat (and perhaps the customer) is quite likely to flee when the bag is opened.
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mrreowwr_kittty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-08 11:32 AM
Response to Reply #7
18. Interesting. So the pig was what the person wanted in the transaction.
I think the expression has morphed to mean the pig itself is undesirable.
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bunnies Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-08 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #7
23. wow. Very interesting!
Thanks for educating my lazy ass. Didnt even occur to me to wiki. :hi:
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jberryhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-08 11:47 AM
Response to Reply #23
26. As I was traveling to St. Ives...
Edited on Fri Sep-19-08 11:48 AM by jberryhill
I met a man with seven wives,
The seven wives had seven sacks,
The seven sacks had seven cats,
The seven sacks had seven kits,
Kits, cats, sacks and wives - how many were traveling to St. Ives?

Notice the theme of cats in bags. Notice that the shady trader has multiple wives.
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dchill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-08 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #7
50. I think you should tell him this...
(Since he's obviously not committed to McCain) - "Go ahead and vote for Obama - you don't have to tell anybody."

Seriously.
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-08 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #50
51. I'll probably never see him again. But it's a good suggestion.
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Kalyke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-08 11:16 AM
Response to Reply #2
8. It's a colloquialism.
It means to make a risky purchase/decision without first inspecting/checking on/vetting the item or decision.
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Ilsa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-08 11:21 AM
Response to Reply #2
11. from Wikipedia:
Pig-in-a-poke is an idiom that refers to a confidence trick originating in the Late Middle Ages, when meat was scarce but apparently rats and cats were not.

The scheme entailed the sale of a "suckling pig" in a "poke" (bag). The wriggling bag actually contained a cat—not particularly prized as a source of meat—that was sold—the bag unopened—to the victim. The French term acheter (un) chat en poche (to buy a cat in a bag) refers to the fact, as do many European equivalents, while the English expression refers to the appearance of the trick.<1>

A common colloquial expression in the English language, to "buy a pig in a poke," is to make a risky purchase without inspecting the item beforehand. The phrase can also be applied to accepting an idea or plan without a full understanding of its basis
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dchill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-08 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #11
57. And, of course, the corollary...
"Life is like a box of chocolates..." - Ms. Gump
;)
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knixphan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-08 11:49 AM
Response to Reply #2
27. yeah. Must be tons of plumbers in the book!
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maxsolomon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-08 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #2
28. delete
Edited on Fri Sep-19-08 11:59 AM by maxsolomon
nt
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southpaw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-08 01:53 PM
Response to Reply #2
49. Pig in a Poke
Edited on Fri Sep-19-08 01:53 PM by southpaw
basically means you are buying something without knowing exactly what you are buying.

A 'poke' is a sack, typically made of burlap. To literally buy a pig in a poke would be to buy an animal (presumably a pig) hidden in a burlap sack. You wouldn't know anything much about the animal until you had paid for it and released it from the sack, at which time it may be evident that you have been cheated.

The guy sounds like one of those overly cynical people who don't trust any politician to be the same person after the election that they were posing as before the election.

Basically, he's saying that you never know what you will actually get when you vote for someone.
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elocs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-08 11:14 AM
Response to Original message
5. Shhhh! Don't you know you're not supposed to bring up race?
You're supposed to pretend like racist attitudes do not exist because then they will magically go away. Republicans who have racist attitudes is not really a surprise, but we delude ourselves into believing that there are no people who usually vote Democratic who also have racist attitude because it is not politically correct to express those attitudes. This is what makes me wonder about those who usually support core Democratic values, but somehow in this election they are "undecided".
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Ilsa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-08 11:19 AM
Response to Original message
10. I pity him, carrying around that kind of attitude through life.
I hope he can learn to see past his useless bigotry. Maybe if enough of them stay home, Obama will be elected and they will learn that Obama is the best thing that could happen for us right now.
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-08 11:23 AM
Response to Original message
12. Oh yeah, I just remembered. He's also worried that "Democrats will cut defense."
I'm afraid my mouth actually dropped open at that and he scuttled out the door before I could respond. What a moran.
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maxsolomon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-08 12:00 PM
Response to Reply #12
29. democrats BETTER cut defense.
the pentagon budget is killing us.
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-08 12:38 PM
Response to Reply #29
32. Of course. But my plumber lives in an alternate universe.
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maxsolomon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-08 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #32
46. one ruled by irrational fear, i assume
guess what? al queda couldn't invade america if it wanted to. conservative chickens.
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Claire Beth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-08 11:25 AM
Response to Original message
13. which state are you in?
I am in TN and there are lots of racists here and I am sure TN will go with McSame. I keep hoping that TN will one day be a BLUE state.

:dem:
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-08 11:27 AM
Response to Reply #13
16. I'm in North Carolina. I live in a blue town but this guy is from out in the country.
I wasn't surprised that he was racist and fearful of communists and Democrats. What did surprise me was his incredibly negative attitude toward McCain and the Republicans - so much so that he couldn't even say their names. This is new. North Carolina might turn blue this time!!!

The racists are discouraged, and the Obama supporters are full of energy and enthusiasm.
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demokatgurrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-08 11:26 AM
Response to Original message
14. Interesting post...
what I find interesting, and frankly hard to get mind around, is that a plumber is amember of the "hard-core Republican base" (I'll leave "racist" out for the moment).
Is that true? Is your plumber non-union, would that help explain it? Or very religious and fooled by the "Christian" right?
I find it so very disturbing. And if that's the case, then I hope he doesn't vote.
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-08 11:33 AM
Response to Reply #14
19. There are virtually no unions in North Carolina. We're a "right to work" state.
"Right to work" is newspeak for "no unions and no rights." This man works for a small, locally owned company that has been in business most of this century. They're reliable and they do good work, which is why I called them. There are no plumbing unions that I know of in North Carolina.

Yes, it's crazy. All these self-employed people, or employees of small businesses, being drive to the brink by unfair trade practices, no universal healthcare, nothing. Yet they vote against their own interests again and again.

He might be a religious fundamentalist, but I didn't that impression. He didn't rave about End Times and revival meetings, as many others do.

He had the typical attitudes of white, rural, southern men. Racism, fear of communism, fear of liberals, fear of being "soft on defense" (see communism). We didn't get into guns but that would have been his next "concern." These folks have been betrayed by their country. Generations of lousy education, lousy working conditions, lousy labor laws have created an entire class of people who are living right on the edge and have nowhere to turn.
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-08 11:27 AM
Response to Original message
15. Did he do good work?
Edited on Fri Sep-19-08 11:35 AM by merh
Do you think his price was fair for the work performed?

If so, why get another plumber just because he is a conservative and racisist? He isn't so racist he didn't do your work for you.

I don't know if you are Christian or not or if you are familiar with the Gospels. Keeping the plumber is like Christ sitting down with the tax collector - it's easy to be friendly and supportive of those that think like us, agree with us. The test is being good to and supportive of those that don't think like us, that have some deep seated misconceptions about who we are. The only way to change them is to show them how wrong they are in their stereotyping.

It could well be that you made some dents in is bigotted armor, that maybe he will look a little closer at what Obama's plans are.

We can hope that is the case and hope is what we have to cling to in this election, for our future.

:hi:
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-08 11:36 AM
Response to Reply #15
20. Thank you for that. I agree with you. Yes, he did good work.
I'm not a Christian but I revere and try to follow Christ's example.
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-08 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #20
44. thank you for being open to my post.
I have a real problem with folks that dismiss conservatives and republicans straight out. They may not be as evil as some what us to believe, they may not be bright or informed or even pay attention, but that does not mean they are evil.
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-08 01:59 PM
Response to Reply #44
53. Well, I think that racists are bordering on the edge of evil if not over it...
but he didn't say anything explicitly racist (if he had the conversation would have gone very differently after that - I would have tossed him out, as I suspect he knew).
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Solomon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-08 11:31 AM
Response to Original message
17. Oh, I think he's motivated and that he will vote for McCain.
He's just too embarassed to admit it, but he will vote for McCain.
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-08 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #17
21. I don't know. He sure seemed angry.
I can't see him taking a trip to the polls just to vote for a pig in a poke. I agree that he won't vote for Obama, but I think he'll sit this one out.
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chatnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-08 11:39 AM
Response to Original message
22. "Whoever we get will be a pig in a poke" - wth does that even mean??
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bunnies Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-08 11:42 AM
Response to Reply #22
24. Check upthread. I had to ask too. Many people helpfully schooled me! :) nt
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chatnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-08 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #24
48. Whoops, replied without reading the whole thread obviously! Thank you!
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-08 11:46 AM
Response to Reply #22
25. It's a pretty common phrase in the south. I guess it's the British roots.
I didn't realize that it wasn't well understood around the country. I never knew the background (thanks to everyone who posted about it) but the meaning is understood to be "I got cheated."
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chatnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-08 01:59 PM
Response to Reply #25
52. Thank you also! My mom and all her side of the family are in TN
Edited on Fri Sep-19-08 01:59 PM by chatnoir
I'm sure she'd know. While I've seen/heard it before in older books/movies, I've never really paid much attn to it.

Sorry for the probably racist plumber, though. Sounds like he won't even vote, which would be good for us.
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IndianaJones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-08 12:03 PM
Response to Original message
30. ahh, the south. nt.
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Kind of Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-08 12:33 PM
Response to Original message
31. Yeah, I've heard there were many blacks who detested
Martin Luther King, Jr. in the early years. Thought he was going to bring on even more trouble for them by rocking the boat. But at least your plumber, I hope, is not as crazy as these loons http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x7119727
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-08 12:39 PM
Response to Reply #31
33. My plumber is a white man.
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IndianaJones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-08 12:40 PM
Response to Reply #33
34. no way. nt.
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-08 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #34
39. I know it's hard to believe.
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Kind of Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-08 12:47 PM
Response to Reply #33
35. It doesn't matter whether he's black or white, to me. He's...
still scared of hoping for a strong chance of change for a better future and apathetic about the sorry state of affairs.
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-08 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #35
38. I thought you might have misunderstood.
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Kind of Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-08 01:17 PM
Response to Reply #38
43. It's okay. I don't think that I was clear.
The Martin Luther King story was the first thing that popped into my mind about inertia. The plumber just makes me feel so sad that he carries a lifetime of powerlessness. As well, as the lunatics that take that same feeling to create crap just to feel important.
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Mika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-08 12:50 PM
Response to Original message
36. "There was a young man once who was talking about change and the country he changed was Cuba."
Before the 1959 revolution

  • 75% of rural dwellings were huts made from palm trees.
  • More than 50% had no toilets of any kind.
  • 85% had no inside running water.
  • 91% had no electricity.
  • There was only 1 doctor per 2,000 people in rural areas.
  • More than one-third of the rural population had intestinal parasites.
  • Only 4% of Cuban peasants ate meat regularly; only 1% ate fish, less than 2% eggs, 3% bread, 11% milk; none ate green vegetables.
  • The average annual income among peasants was $91 (1956), less than 1/3 of the national income per person.
  • 45% of the rural population was illiterate; 44% had never attended a school.
  • 25% of the labor force was chronically unemployed.
  • 1 million people were illiterate ( in a population of about 5.5 million).
  • 27% of urban children, not to speak of 61% of rural children, were not attending school.
  • Racial discrimination was widespread.
  • The public school system had deteriorated badly.
  • Corruption was endemic; anyone could be bought, from a Supreme Court judge to a cop.
  • Police brutality and torture were common.

    ___



    After the 1959 revolution

    “It is in some sense almost an anti-model,” according to Eric Swanson, the programme manager for the Bank’s Development Data Group, which compiled the WDI, a tome of almost 400 pages covering scores of economic, social, and environmental indicators.

    Indeed, Cuba is living proof in many ways that the Bank’s dictum that economic growth is a pre-condition for improving the lives of the poor is over-stated, if not, downright wrong.

    -

    It has reduced its infant mortality rate from 11 per 1,000 births in 1990 to seven in 1999, which places it firmly in the ranks of the western industrialised nations. It now stands at six, according to Jo Ritzen, the Bank’s Vice President for Development Policy, who visited Cuba privately several months ago to see for himself.

    By comparison, the infant mortality rate for Argentina stood at 18 in 1999;

    Chile’s was down to ten; and Costa Rica, at 12. For the entire Latin American and Caribbean region as a whole, the average was 30 in 1999.

    Similarly, the mortality rate for children under the age of five in Cuba has fallen from 13 to eight per thousand over the decade. That figure is 50% lower than the rate in Chile, the Latin American country closest to Cuba’s achievement. For the region as a whole, the average was 38 in 1999.

    “Six for every 1,000 in infant mortality - the same level as Spain - is just unbelievable,” according to Ritzen, a former education minister in the Netherlands. “You observe it, and so you see that Cuba has done exceedingly well in the human development area.”

    Indeed, in Ritzen’s own field, the figures tell much the same story. Net primary enrolment for both girls and boys reached 100% in 1997, up from 92% in 1990. That was as high as most developed nations - higher even than the US rate and well above 80-90% rates achieved by the most advanced Latin American countries.

    “Even in education performance, Cuba’s is very much in tune with the developed world, and much higher than schools in, say, Argentina, Brazil, or Chile.”

    It is no wonder, in some ways. Public spending on education in Cuba amounts to about 6.7% of gross national income, twice the proportion in other Latin American and Caribbean countries and even Singapore.

    There were 12 primary school pupils for every Cuban teacher in 1997, a ratio that ranked with Sweden, rather than any other developing country. The Latin American and East Asian average was twice as high at 25 to one.

    The average youth (age 15-24) illiteracy rate in Latin America and the Caribbean stands at 7%. In Cuba, the rate is zero. In Latin America, where the average is 7%, only Uruguay approaches that achievement, with one percent youth illiteracy.

    “Cuba managed to reduce illiteracy from 40% to zero within ten years,” said Ritzen. “If Cuba shows that it is possible, it shifts the burden of proof to those who say it’s not possible.”

    Similarly, Cuba devoted 9.1% of its gross domestic product (GDP) during the 1990s to health care, roughly equivalent to Canada’s rate. Its ratio of 5.3 doctors per 1,000 people was the highest in the world.

    The question that these statistics pose, of course, is whether the Cuban experience can be replicated. The answer given here is probably not.

    “What does it, is the incredible dedication,” according to Wayne Smith, who was head of the US Interests Section in Havana in the late 1970s and early 1980s and has travelled to the island many times since.



    Gawd forbid we ever get a government that represents the people's interests, that supports high quality universal health care, and world class universal education. Of course, there are people who feel that these things have to be forced on some fantasized resistant populace, but that just isn't the case in Cuba.

    Been there. Seen it.




    -


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    yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-08 01:05 PM
    Response to Reply #36
    42. I know. The fear of communism runs strong in North Carolina.
    It's linked the labor issues, too. The textile, tobacco, and furniture industries were terrified that unions would come to the state, because their treatment of workers was so bad, any reform would have resulted in major changes. When slavery was outlawed in the south, white people just switched gears and instituted "legal" slavery like share-cropping and sweat-shop conditions.

    Unions had to be kept out at all costs. The way to do that was to create a mythology. Unions = communists. Hence the long-time fear of reds. Reality has no role.

    Since the 1980s, the older industries got outsourced to countries where its legal to treat people even worse. Meanwhile, the hog and poultry industries, along with Walmart and its cousins, just hire illegal workers and treat them like slaves now.
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    mtnester Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-08 01:02 PM
    Response to Original message
    40. He will vote
    and it will be for Mcain/Palin....reason? There are two possibilities:

    1. He will vote for them because he will never, ever help be a part of putting a black man in the white house, and will vote McCain/Palin because of his absolute racism...or/and

    2. Sara Palin is hot and he wants to do her (I have heard this from more stupid people than I care to admit as a reason for why they are leaning that way...and stupid people do not care about this country in ANY way, and are used to being bailed out of whatever stupid predicament their stupidity gets them in, so they will never care or become informed)

    I forsee the tireless use of:



    for myself and others...I swear we live in a world of idiots.
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    renie408 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-08 01:03 PM
    Response to Original message
    41. He is a sexist ASSHOLE! How dare he use the word pig....n/t
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    JSK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-08 01:30 PM
    Response to Original message
    45. Will the pig be wearing lipstick?
    n/t
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    yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-08 01:50 PM
    Response to Reply #45
    47. I wish I had thought to say that!
    This is why I'm not in politics. Just can't think fast enough to reel off those quips.
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    zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-08 02:02 PM
    Response to Original message
    54. He's a low information human... as long as he does his plumbing well, leave it at that
    Like you said, he probably doesn't vote. He probably couldn't point to you on a map where Iraq is.

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    yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-08 09:21 PM
    Response to Reply #54
    58. I would bet on it. I doubt he could point to the United States on a map.
    He's a damn good plumber, though.
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    Emit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-08 02:04 PM
    Response to Original message
    55. I'm beginning to think your plumber
    is my neighbor! lol.
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