Very disturbing, but unfortunately not shocking, poll

This just fucking kills me. If even possible, I apologize on behalf of the idiots among my fellow white folks. I'm sorry to hear that they are not all repugs.


http://news.yahoo.com/page/election-2008-political-pulse-obama-race

Poll: Racial views steer some white Dems away from Obama

WASHINGTON (AP) — Deep-seated racial misgivings could cost Barack Obama the White House if the election is close, according to an AP-Yahoo News poll that found one-third of white Democrats harbor negative views toward blacks — many calling them "lazy," "violent," responsible for their own troubles.

The poll, conducted with Stanford University, suggests that the percentage of voters who may turn away from Obama because of his race could easily be larger than the final difference between the candidates in 2004 — about two and one-half percentage points.

...Lots of Republicans harbor prejudices, too, but the survey found they weren't voting against Obama because of his race. Most Republicans wouldn't vote for any Democrat for president — white, black or brown...

....Among white Democrats, Clinton supporters were nearly twice as likely as Obama backers to say at least one negative adjective described blacks well, a finding that suggests many of her supporters in the primaries — particularly whites with high school education or less — were motivated in part by racial attitudes. ....

If Obama were white and had a name like James or Ben this race would be a runaway for the Democrats. It is sad to see that there are quite a few who will allow their prejudices to vote against their interests.

I'm not trying to say it was valid back then, but that it is released the day after McCain's worst week yet is telling.

they had 35 of them as delegates this year.......wow even less than in 04.

a whole new perspective.

We are in for a great big awakening. Come Monday and in the weeks to follow I think we will find that some Americans are much wiser in days to come, than they are today.

I look around and see this country in shambles. An unnecessary war, the worst economy since the Great Depression, 8 horrible years of the worst president ever, and then you have McCain bumbling along with his scary inexperienced running mate, it's just bad news. We're in the midst of serious financial crises that John McCain helped foster, the guy who wrote his whole economics platform virtually caused it all and in the face of that some people are so sick they would vote for certain doom rather than a black guy? I simply can't believe enough people would do that to lose this election. I know some people would, don't get me wrong, but, in my heart, I have to hope that overall most of the people of our country are better than that. I have to have that hope.

That's certainly a demographic that he has some work to do in order to make some inroads. :)

... I'd prefer that he/she vote for Obama than McCain.

It's going to be that close... I do believe.


Problem is... how to persuade him that voting for Obama is actually voting in his/her best interests.

Why do I keep thinking about "Blazing Saddles" when I think about this campaign?

one of my favorite movies. It almost makes me laugh right now.
But this is so serious... I hope the poster above is right about the awakening. We need it.

America is a fundamentally racist country. We exist because we were willing to kill native Americans to steal their land and enslave black Africans to work it.

Racism is The American Way.

Rah, rah, rah... One million Iraqis civilians dead is a good thing because it is saving us from the terrorist. Yea war. That is the stance of the United States and we go along with it.
Most of us don't see the Iraqis as real people with the same feelings, wants, needs, love of family and friends and country, etc. as us. Now visualize moving the Iraqi war to England or Europe and just try to kill that many innocents. Ain'ta gonna happen. We can relate here because us whites running and otherwise controlling this country came from there. Yes indeedy, we most truly are a racist country.

THis is why I really don't believe the polls. I think you've got to subtract at least 2 - 5 points off of Obama's poll numbers because of the Bradley Effect.

this is a complete unknown.

There could be as many who don't want to admit they are leaning Obama but will vote for him as there are the other way.

It's based predominantly on one election, in California in 1982, where favored African-American Democrat Tom Bradley was narrowly upset by Republican George Deukmajian in the Governor's race.

I was in Los Angeles at that time. What people who tout the "Bradley Effect" fail to note is that there is a much more rational explanation for the result: in the wake of the assassination attempt against Reagan the year before, progressive groups placed a gun-control initiative on the state ballot. This wound up bringing all the gun nuts out of the woodwork, to vote a straight Republican ticket while they were "protecting their Second Amendment rights." Voter turnout in conservative Republican areas like Orange County and the Central Valley was much higher than anticipated, and was likely responsible for the poor showing, not only by Bradley, but by several other notable (and white) Democrats like Jerry Brown.

:thumbsup:

Hope we don't have gun-control or abortion-rights initiatives on the 2008 ballots.

But I wouldn't put it past those Republicans to either fake a liberal initiative or put right wing "culture war" initiatives on the November ballots in battleground states.

But we're aiming to get at least ten million more voters to the polls than they expect, so we can overwhelm the many Republican techniques of disenfranchising Democratic voters.

So those millions can overwhelm the racist votes. Or we can hope the racists will just stay home. Maybe they'll be ageists also. Can't vote for Early Dementia either.

So we know their numbers more accurately. It's still going to be a factor, but much, much smaller IMHO.

before gut-level racism becomes a rarity - if ever

Racism does not have to equate with discrimination or unfair treatment though. Someone can "prefer their own kind" socially and still vote for the best leader.

The pugs have made it a point to try to paint their lame candidates as "everyman" to those with the strongest tribal tendencies. But those same tribal-instinct subhumans are the ones who will turn on you like a snake when they realize you are an outsider masquerading as a good old boy.

We need to stress at every opportunity that "republicans think you're stupid." When the mob realizes they are being had, they get surly. Eventually they'll start to respect the guy who tells it like it is. They'd rather know what they are getting.

It would be nice to think racism will die out, but it won't. If we can make it not as influential in matters of policy and selection of leaders, I'll take it.

uneducated racist vote. And I never expected these racists to vote for Obama. Not shocking at all.

is she was on the ticket?

the Republicans have done a pretty effective job of demonizing Hillary over the years. The same white men that wouldn't vote for Obama wouldn't vote for Hillary either.

Oh, no they didn't. They vote in the Dem primary, vote for the downticket Dems, and then vote Repub for President. We have them in Oregon too. They're fools.

ESPECIALLY racists.

What does that say about Hillary ? ..That he needed to pick her to get the racist vote ? I wouldn't go down that path.

carried during the primaries and it looked like a the usual GE map between Republicans and Democrats. Hillary basically carried the old line Democratic states and Obama carried the old Confederate states and the mountain states. The problem is for the most part the states Obama carried will never ever vote Democratic. That was the argument many of us had, I thought myself that that was going to be a big problem in the GE. I brought this up many times on DU and was called names and was put on ignore, there were many that refused to face facts and said he will win by carrying southern states and the western states. Look at the EV models and they are about the same as they have been for decades now you got your reliable blue states and the reliable red states and it's down to the same swing states as always. Under normal circumstances we would ahead by double digits but with a black candidate it will be 50/50 shot at best.

Here's the problem Obama faces: http://www.comcast.net/articles/news-general/20080920/AP.Yahoo.Poll.Obama.Race/

On top of that you have talk radio that is almost totally right wing and most of the MSM that has always been in McCain's pocket.

"...to say at least one negative adjective described blacks..." I can give negative examples of adjectives for whites or any other color, depending on how the question is worded. Does that make me raciest? Not necessarily.

How were the leading questions worded? Do you still beat your wife?

Possible clue to bias in story: "The pollsters set out to determine why Obama is locked in a close race with McCain even as the political landscape seems to favor Democrats." I'm sure we have all wondered this ourselves.

How does the above square with this": "Not all whites are prejudiced. Indeed, more whites say good things about blacks than say bad things, the poll shows. And many whites who see blacks in a negative light are still willing or even eager to vote for Obama."

My bullshit meter is at work registering 50-65% on this article. Again, how were the questions worded?

If anybody cares, I am white and live in a neighborhood with a high percentage of immigrants and Blacks. With the exception of only one group, most of whom were forced to leave, skin color and/or citizenship status doesn't seem make any difference. It's the individual, just like anywhere else.

please be calm about polls, this is their base! Of course they're racists.

Now, rinse and repeat..... feel better!


Now chant with me -- "yes we can, yes we can"

:bounce:

But the good news is that the Bradley Effect has been diminishing. Doug Wilder winning VA etc.... My spouse and I often laugh about the possiblity of a anti-Bradley Effect.... maybe white fence sitters---mostly women-- telling their Repub friends and husbands that they are voting for McCain but secretly plan on sitting at home or voting for Barack... I know a Repub woman -- a neighbor who told me she's voting for Barack even though her husband assumes she is going McCain...her reason? She can't imagine going back to a day where you couldnt get an abortion legally............

There are almost 10,000 registered Democrats and 7,000 registered Republicans. Wouldn't one expect that once in a while the vote would be close here? Not even. Every election the Republicans carry the vote and it is by a wide margin. Usually 80% in favor of a Republican candidate, sometimes more. There are a lot of registered Democrats in the South who still claim they are Democrats, yet they never vote for a Democrat. So I take some solace in that fact.

this racism needs to be talked about and brought into the open. We know the reason why otherwise sane people don't "like" Obama. It's about race. We need to get it in the open and talk about it and move beyond it. No more coded messages.

Pretending it does not exist is not going to win any votes. Confronting it might.

obsessiong about it over and over. If anything will lose the election for Obama, it will be racism. It is all over New Hampshire.

Our gem from Cleveland who tells it like it is. I just hope he's being too pessimistic this time. (But he has his reasons for seeing things as he does.)

questionnaire and responses is http://l.yimg.com/a/i/us/nws/elections/ap_election_wave6_topline_w6_all_weight5_091808.pdf .

See especially pages 21 - 23 for some shocking statistics on the prevalence of white stereotypes of Blacks.

By "agree" with negative adjectives about Blacks, the yahoo article in the OP apparently means only "extremely well" and "very well" in response the the question, "How well does this word describe most Blacks?" "Moderately well", "slightly well", and "not at all" apparently ALL were interpreted as "disagree". IMO, that's quite misleading.

If only "not at all" is counted as "disagree", then only 27 percent of whites don't think of most Blacks as "lazy", and only 17 percent of whites don't think of most Blacks as "violent"!

always has and always will. but we were willing to take the loss for a black or female to break the ceiling.

think of all the people that will still step up and vote even though they are racist. and they will because they know how important this election is. it is going ot help that much in settling racism. this is a lesson for all of us. a good thing. what the nation needs.

and media is going ot use this like they were using white women and married woman against obama

please dont feed it

I tend to be very optimistic about these things and believe that we are always moving forward.

Yes, there are still whites who feel that way. Some of them will never change, sadly. But most have the capacity for change and growth.

Just look at the last two years. I'll bet that a significant number of white people who now support Obama would have thought you were nuts if you had told them two years ago that they would support a black man for president. But as I said back then, the question "Is America ready for a black president?" was really the wrong question. The right question was "Will America vote for THIS man." Because often people who have prejudiced views find those prejudices softening when it comes to dealing with individuals.

For many white people - and others, as well - views on race are shaped by their experiences. Often, the people who hold the most bigoted views either have little or no experience with people of other races or had a negative experience that they then project onto an entire race of people. Most of those people, I believe, can have their views changed for the better through better exposure and experience. We saw that in this campaign as people who allowed themselves to get to know Obama during the campaign changed their minds and began to support him.

I'm sure that most of the people who still refuse to vote for Obama because he is black probably don't know any black people, at least not in any meaningful way. If Obama wins, they will be treated to a constant dose of seeing a black man as president of the United States, arguably the most powerful man on earth. Yes, many of them will resent that and perhaps even harden their bigotry because of it. But think of the people who, after this exposure day after day, will begin to think it's not so unusual to see black people as people they know and can identify with.

When a black man is running the country, maybe it won't seem so strange for someone who never considered hiring a black employee to take that chance. Maybe a white woman who never would have socialized with a black woman will be more likely to make friends with her black neighbor who reminds her of Michelle Obama. Perhaps a family who normally would be uncomfortable allowing their children to play with the black kids up the street will look at those kids differently and with a little more warmth after getting to know Sacha and Malia on television.

I don't expect a seachange overnight, but I see all of this as progress. And it makes me happy.

it would be very healing for this country to have a black president. I think we almost NEED it. And it would make us part of the rest of the world.

"More than a third of all white Democrats and independents — voters Obama can't win the White House without — agreed with at least one negative adjective about blacks, according to the survey, and they are significantly less likely to vote for Obama than those who don't have such views."

I'm looking at the poll results, and don't see where they got that.

Obama will be seen as the candidate who best represents their interests and who can best handle the enormous problems with our economy.

"Well, we know that exit polling doesn't reflect the final results, but that's because many voters were embarrassed to admit they wouldn't vote for a black man. But once they found themselves in the privacy of a voting booth..."

Count on it

Sounds like an opt-in idea to me, similar to Zogby's online bullshit polls, except there is a telephone involved to weed out all of the young cellphone only users.

don't know the percent but they are there.

they don't say they are against Obama just really 'concerned' about him

it's the peoples sotry need to take door to door an make people understand that only a dmeocrat can repair the damage whoever the democrat might of turned out to be. If they still have hopes for Hillary then Palin would ruin any future chances for a woman as the oncoming economic depression may be put at her feet. So wiser to think ahead on their part.

I'm sure this is why McCain chose the rednect (my apologies to non-racist rednecks) Palin for his running mate. A twofer, women and racists.

He is trying to make this election as racially divisive as possible, and he KNOWS Obama can't call him out on it. He can taunt and do all of the dirty things he's been doing and Obama can't say a thing.

But I can. McCain is a dirty, hateful old man who has waited his whole life for this election.

It's obvious to me that when he goes to Sturgis, Nascar, chooses White trash Palin, and makes appearances at little businesses where the town is mostly White, that he is calling all racists.

I hope some of the mislead and decent people who support McCain have an epiphany. They need to look at Obama's crowds and look at McCain's crowds.

Does McCain represent all people? I don't think so. His crowds are not a cross-section of America.

Those negative feelings are not directed at professional and middle class African-Americans. Most of those people who harbor those residual racist impulses are directing them toward the stereotypical AA as portrayed in the local news as well as, sad to say, entertainment industry.

I am confident that most people are able to view Obama as a transcending figure, an individual who is above the normal stereotypes that these folks the article is talking about.

When push comes to shove, most of these "closet" racists will pull the lever for Obama rather than vote for someone as out of touch as McCain.

Then again, I could be totally wrong and am giving too much credit to those who just can't get beyond race.

We're going to keep on doing what we're doing, reaching the reachable, and we're not going to let things like this get to us.

Yes, there are people who harbor racial attitudes but even this poll says other problems are a bigger factor in their decision.

.....Race is not the biggest factor driving Democrats and independents away from Obama. Doubts about his competency loom even larger, the poll indicates. More than a quarter of all Democrats expressed doubt that Obama can bring about the change they want, and they are likely to vote against him because of that.

Three in 10 of those Democrats who don't trust Obama's change-making credentials say they plan to vote for McCain.

"Three in 10 of those Democrats who don't trust Obama's change-making credentials say they plan to vote for McCain." believe in McCain's "credentials" either.

I've not heard a half way sane reasoning to say why McCain is fit to be President, especially from any Democrat's point of view. This guy isn't even up to be a place holder and will surely do great harm to our country.