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Oh Crap. Was I Just Bamboozled?

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MannyGoldstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-08 10:52 AM
Original message
Oh Crap. Was I Just Bamboozled?
Edited on Sat Sep-20-08 10:54 AM by MannyGoldstein
Obama's meeting with Robert Rubin, for years the point man in the war against the middle class.



I'm hoping this isn't a trend. I voted for Obama to go the opposite way.
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Eric J in MN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-08 10:54 AM
Response to Original message
1. We get a choice between the next president being advised by Robert Rubin...
...or by Phil Gramm.
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MannyGoldstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-08 10:59 AM
Response to Reply #1
8. Republicans who call themselves Democrats
Are the most dangerous of all - that's why we shoot spies, not soldiers in uniform.

Remember, almost-free-trade-with-China, NAFTA, and repeal of the Glass-Steagall Act (a key cause for this financial meltdown) all happened under Clinton and Rubin - they got away with it precisely because they claimed to be Democrats, and many believed them and thus didn't object.
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Overseas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-08 11:12 AM
Response to Reply #8
18. Yes we will have to work hard to push for our interests even with an Obama administration.
Apparently there are no perfect candidates, and we'll have to keep the pressure on for middle class interests even if Obama wins.

We'll have to push to re-regulate the finance sector and bring back anti-trust regulations.

I'd recommend we push for media de-consolidation as well. Bring back curbs on media ownership. Since a free press was envisioned as a vital part of our democracy.
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CitizenPatriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-08 04:31 PM
Response to Reply #18
53. Obama
media de-consolidation and re-regulating the markets are both things Obama has not only spoken out FOR but he has authored or sponsored a bill which is not set to be voted on until next year which deals with the media comgloms. I have often thought that is at least one reason why he does not get a fair shake from them.

I hope he sticks to these promises; without a free press, we have no democracy. and clearly without regulation, we do not have the trust of the people or the world to invest in our markets.
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TheBigotBasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-08 05:40 PM
Response to Reply #18
58. I wish somebody would stop worrying about the Middle Class
and worry more about your working poor. The US minimum wage is now below that of of China on purchasing parity. How much lower do you want to go?
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iiibbb Donating Member (658 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-08 04:24 PM
Response to Reply #8
50. How about winning the election before you worry about cleaning house...
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Solomon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-08 10:07 PM
Response to Reply #50
77. Thank you. Can we get in the white house first?
How the hell is he going to get elected by meeting with Castro? People should get a grip.
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regnaD kciN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-08 09:32 PM
Response to Reply #8
71. NAFTA happened BEFORE Rubin...
It was on Robert Reich's watch...and Reich is now credited as a liberal voice.
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-08 10:54 AM
Response to Original message
2. There are how many people at that meeting? I think Rubin might just be a tad outnumbered... nt
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cliffordu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-08 10:54 AM
Response to Original message
3. Welll....
That's right. You've been had. Fucked. Bamboozled, swindled.


Suck it up. Walk it off.
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CountAllVotes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-08 11:30 AM
Response to Reply #3
21. that is how I feel too
I wonder how much BO had in the stock market? Just askin' ...

:kick:
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-08 04:06 PM
Response to Reply #3
37. Fucking
Hoodwinked.
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The Velveteen Ocelot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-08 10:55 AM
Response to Original message
4. Meeting with somebody doesn't mean you agree with them.
Getting information from a lot of people, even those you might not agree with, is a good thing. Something Bush never did.
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Demi_Babe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-08 04:10 PM
Response to Reply #4
41. exactly
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Mabus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-08 10:53 PM
Response to Reply #4
80. It worked for Abe Lincoln
You are so right and you put it very well.
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napi21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-08 10:56 AM
Response to Original message
5. Rubin isn't the ONLY advisor! I heard Thom Hartmann say yesterday
that it might be a good thing to have Rubin as an advisor because he knows & understands how the other side works. I believe, as long as he's not the ONLY advisor, it could be a good thing.
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billyoc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-08 10:56 AM
Response to Original message
6. Obama's economic advisors represent the worst of the worst that the DLC has to offer.
We'll never be able to turn our backs on them, not even for a second.
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Enrique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-08 10:58 AM
Response to Original message
7. Rubin and Obama have been no secret
so you haven't been bamboozled, you just don't like it.
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msallied Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-08 10:59 AM
Response to Original message
9. Because Obama should be exactly like George W. Bush...
meeting and receiving advice only from those people who are exactly like him....
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-08 11:00 AM
Response to Original message
10. Oh, no! He's meeting with a BLACK man!
:evilgrin:
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LaydeeBug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-08 10:03 PM
Response to Reply #10
75. or...Oh, no! He's Meeting with a Fascist! Race has little to do with undermining the middle class.
wow. just wow.
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Pirate Smile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-08 11:01 AM
Response to Original message
11. He met with a variety of people who disagree with each other. Check this out:
Edited on Sat Sep-20-08 11:02 AM by Pirate Smile
Team of (bitter) rivals

The short list of Obama's economic advisors -- who he will be meeting with in Florida today -- includes both Former Secretary of the Treasury Lawrence Summers and Former CEA Chairman and World Bank Chief Economist Joe Stiglitz.

The two professors famously hated each other -- partially due to personal rivalry, and partially because Stiglitz has become the most prominent opponent of the pro-globalization consensus, while Summers has been a staunch defender.

It reflects the economic minefield between the left and the center-left that the recent economic troubles have instigated, and the all-hands-on-deck nature of the response to the crisis.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0908/Bedfellows_in_crisis.html?showall


He gets advice from a wide range of people.
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MannyGoldstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-08 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #11
13. Thank You - Makes Me Feel Much Better n/t
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Pirate Smile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-08 11:07 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. I knew it would. I'm just glad I noticed the post yesterday so I could share it with you.
Edited on Sat Sep-20-08 11:08 AM by Pirate Smile
:)

If you still have time, you could add it to your OP so other people wont freak out without bothering to read through the thread.

:hi:
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nc4bo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-08 11:12 AM
Response to Reply #11
17. Advice from a wide range of people is EXACTLY what he said he would do
and he's practicing what he preaches. @ what is going on right now, I am not concerned. There will be plenty of times when I will get concerned but this just isn't one of them.
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Connie_Corleone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-08 11:01 AM
Response to Original message
12. And who are all the other economic advisers?
Or is Rubin a clone of the other advisers sitting around that table?

Obama has economic advisers that don't agree with each other on everything. It's important to hear different opinions, but Obama is the one who makes the ultimate decision.
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Runcible Spoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-08 04:07 PM
Response to Reply #12
39. Naomi Klein wrote about this. Answer is NOT pretty:
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20080630/klein
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Eurobabe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-08 04:13 PM
Response to Reply #39
43. Ugh, not good.
:(
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JenniferJuniper Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-08 11:08 AM
Response to Original message
15. Abraham Lincoln always
had men around him with whom he disagreed. Questioning them, and himself, kept him sharp.

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mdmc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-08 11:11 AM
Response to Original message
16. obey
you know you don't have no choice. Either you live in a red or blue state, and your vote won't change shit, or you live in a swing state, which means Obama Biden are the only game in town.

We are the lesser of two evils here.
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CountAllVotes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-08 11:43 AM
Response to Reply #16
23. so nice to have choice isn't it
I feel like I've been ripped off. That is because I and the rest of the American populace has been ripped off! :mad:
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mdmc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-08 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #23
30. courage my friend
peace and low stress to you and yours
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lurky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-08 11:17 AM
Response to Original message
19. I read somewhere he was hugely influenced by "Team of Rivals"
Goodwin's biography of Lincoln that describes his choice of advisors. Basically, Lincoln surrounded himself with people who disagreed with each other, and through the process of argument he would suss out what he thought was the best decision.

I wouldn't be too worried yet, although we are kidding ourselves if we expect Obama to run the country like Dennis Kucinich.
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lurky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-08 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #19
20. Forgot to add:
This only works if the president is smart enough to absorb all the different viewpoints on complex policy and perform his own analysis. Clearly, Obama has the brains to do it.

I have my doubts about McCain, based on his statements about the economy, foreign policy, etc. He has no choice but to do whatever his advisors tell him to do.
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gblady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-08 11:30 AM
Response to Reply #20
22. agree with this point...
Obama is very bright...and has said many times that this is the way he likes to gather information...
Look at all sides, not just people who agree with him...
I think it is a really good thing.
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DefenseLawyer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-08 11:46 AM
Response to Original message
24. Yup, you were bamboozled
McCain is your man. Best of luck.
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-08 10:12 PM
Response to Reply #24
79. That was a really bright thing to say
I hope you aren't actually a defense lawyer IRL.
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DefenseLawyer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-21-08 11:36 AM
Response to Reply #79
84. Sorry my tolerance for bullshit isn't as high as yours.
If someone wants to come to this board and declare Obama to be a charlatan who has "bamboozled" them, I have no time for it. Have a nice day.
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-21-08 12:24 PM
Response to Reply #84
85. Apparently, you don't think very clearly
and jump the gun, without considering the underlying issues.

Not very lawyerlike.
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DefenseLawyer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-21-08 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #85
86. And what is the "underlying issue" on this board?
We are about electing Barack Obama. This is not "Green Party Underground" or "Ralph Nader Underground" or whatever your personal worldview might be. It's Democratic Underground with a big "D". You are welcome to support whomever you like and whatever "underlying issues" you like. Start your own "Barack Obama is a Corporate Sellout Underground" website and knock yourself the fuck out.
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-21-08 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #86
88. Rubin and the Hamilton project
are part and parcel to the problem- not the solution. Rather than walk lockstep in barrel- without a critical thought (and make equally juvenile comments about the nature of the forum) wouldn't it be wiser to THINK ABOUT and maybe communicate to the candidate reasonable concerns (I know, that's become a loaded word) about the direction AND the appearance of policy choices?

After all, hasn't the candidate himself said that he wants us to hold his feet to the fire?

Maybe you missed that bit.
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Tarheel_Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-21-08 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #88
89. Tell me, what is it you and Manny don't understand about divergent opinion?
Obama has maintained all along that he would not surround himself with "yes" men, it's called "diplomacy", and for my money, it's a helluva departure from the last eight years. So the OP's outlandish thread title is just plain silly and incendiary. I agree with DL, this is not Green Party Underground.
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-21-08 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #89
91. I don't think you grasp the nature of the situation
Edited on Sun Sep-21-08 01:40 PM by depakid
So how about a little Einstein:

"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."

I'm not making any judgment about the title of the thread- much less agreeing per se with Manny- but he DOES raise a salient point- and after the FISA debacle, one would think that responsible people would take note of it.

Maybe you're right- maybe the wise thing to do is talk to the guy who burglarized your house. Maybe he can tell you how to keep him from doing it again.

On the other hand, now that he's emptied your house, maybe he's after your bank account- or the keys to your car.

Considering that he's a thief- reasonable people would be on guard- maybe even raise hell and want the guy as far away as possible, rather than defend his actions with empty platitudes and innuendo about the Green Party.
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Tarheel_Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-21-08 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #91
92. Unlike some may be, I am totally unimpressed by you. Vote for whomever
the fuck you want, but this is "DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND" where we try to support the democratic nominee, and not constantly tear him down. Here's a suggestion: if you and Manny don't like Obama's policy stances, why not post someplace else? Afterall, I'm sure you're probably one of the recommends for this piece of shit thread.
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-21-08 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #92
93. Stamping one's feet
Edited on Sun Sep-21-08 01:55 PM by depakid
and shouting about the nature of the forum is a poor substitute for critical thought and reasoned action.

If you like what's going on, fine. If not- contact your representatives AND the Obama campaign.

I have. So has my SO- and while she's not an American, the actions over the next several days will affect her country, too.
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Tarheel_Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-21-08 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #93
94. As forestated, "UNIMPRESSED". (nt)
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CreekDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-08 11:46 AM
Response to Original message
25. :eyes:
i'm so sick of this shit. Obama can't do anything without getting grief from his own supporters. :banghead:
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Tarheel_Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-21-08 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #25
90. I wouldn't be so quick to label the o.p. a "supporter". You were around
during the primaries right?
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-08 11:48 AM
Response to Original message
26. Let's see: Bill Clinton's economy under Robert Rubin.......Yep, yep, I'd take it.
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MannyGoldstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-08 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #26
29. Wait until *your* job gets outsourced
Sure, Clinton looks good compared to Bush...
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-08 05:48 PM
Response to Reply #29
59. Public school teacher, retired. I ALWAYS, seeing BethSteel strikers as a child, knew where my bread
Edited on Sat Sep-20-08 05:51 PM by WinkyDink
was buttered. Went for security, not Securities.
I'm not minimizing NAFTA at all; it was most decidedly undemocratic and non-Democratic. But Clinton DID leave a surplus.
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Romulox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-08 11:49 AM
Response to Original message
27. Rightwing economist Austan Goolsbee was Obama's man during the primaries
Wal-Mart defender Jason Furman is his chief economic adviser during the Presidential campaign; this noise about "getting various opinions" is nonsense. Obama is a "Chicago school" free marketeer.
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Hamlette Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-08 11:51 AM
Response to Original message
28. Rubin is a terrible choice. He gave us 8 years of peace and prosperity under Clinton.
WTF is Obama thinking?
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MannyGoldstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-08 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #28
33. One Can Live Well On A Credit Card. But,
the bill will come. And we are paying.
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Hamlette Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-08 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #33
34. We were NOT living on any credit card under Clinton
Clinton's budgets were in SURPLUS, under Rubin.

My husband, a state bank regulator when Rubin was in, and NO friend of banks BTW, thinks Rubin is a smart, serious guy who gets it.

He is thrilled that he is advising Obama, as is my 84 year old mother. The two of them know a whole hell of a lot more than I do about banks, banking, deregulation etc. Mom called me yesterday to ask if I knew Rubin was advising Obama. She, a Hillary supporter, is finally on board because of Rubin.
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MannyGoldstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-08 04:04 PM
Response to Reply #34
35. We Sacrificed US Jobs And Caused Our Current Financial Meltdown
The narrative of the Clinton presidency was short term gain for the wealthy few, scraps for the rest.

At first, almost-free-trade with China allowed a small segment of society to make a lot of money, but the median worker didn't benefit. Now we're a few years out and wages are getting hammered by foreign outsourcing. US manufacturing has evaporated, and we owe China something like a trilliom bucks.

Moreover, Clinton repealed Glass-Steagall, which helped CitiGroup make a quick buck (Clinton presented the signing pen to his patron, Sandy Weill, their CEO). Glass-Steagall was specifically designed to prevent the catastrophe unfolding today by mandating a firewall between banks and services. So now we have toxic mortgage-backed securities everwhere, and hence the catastrophe we have today.
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Mimosa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-08 09:07 PM
Response to Reply #35
69. TRUE, Manny, sadly true
Manny nobody can deny it.
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progressivebydesign Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-08 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #28
56. oops you forgot your sarcasm thingy! : ) n/t
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Jennicut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-08 01:04 PM
Response to Original message
31. He needs advice from as many Dem economic advisors as he can get
Rubin DID give us a balanced budget at the very least, did he not?
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Phoebe Loosinhouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-08 01:05 PM
Response to Original message
32. I would prefer Robert Reich and Paul Volker. nt.
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butterfly77 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-08 04:33 PM
Response to Reply #32
54. They are already on his team...
if you didn't know..
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chascarrillo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-08 05:16 PM
Response to Reply #32
55. Uh... Paul Volcker is like right smack in the center of the photo above.
Edited on Sat Sep-20-08 05:18 PM by chascarrillo
OnEdit: spelling. Doh.
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Runcible Spoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-08 04:05 PM
Response to Original message
36. Obama's economic advisory is chock full of Chicago School neoliberals.
I wouldn't expect any populist economic miracles. That's all I'm going to say, probably enough to get me flamed anyway. :eyes:
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WritingIsMyReligion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-08 04:09 PM
Response to Reply #36
40. He does have connections to UChicago.
Hence, the Chicago School of Economics representatives.

Is anyone truly shocked and distraught over this?

:shrug:
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Runcible Spoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-08 04:12 PM
Response to Reply #40
42. if you had any idea what that specific ideology represents, you would.
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WritingIsMyReligion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-08 04:14 PM
Response to Reply #42
44. I'll get out my book on UChicago graduates and look them up.
CSE cracks me up in innumerable ways.
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Runcible Spoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-08 04:19 PM
Response to Reply #44
46. I'm glad the spectre of unleashed capitalism is so amusing to you.
but then again anything is better than the current robber baron "regulation" we have now. Lesser of two evils, can't we EVER do any better than that? Sigh.
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WritingIsMyReligion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-08 04:22 PM
Response to Reply #46
48. There are many specters and ghosts in the world.
It doesn't mean that any of them will become anything more than specters and ghosts.

Nonetheless, we'll have to stand vigilant, as we should be doing anyway. Always vigilant.
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chascarrillo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-08 04:23 PM
Response to Reply #46
49. Who do you suggest we vote for, then?
Hey, if a third party actually decided to nominate someone who was in the least bit respectable, I'd take a look. Until then, what?
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Runcible Spoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-08 06:07 PM
Response to Reply #49
64. I'm not fucking advocating third party voting. Get off that ridiculous canard.
I would never presume to tell anyone who they "should" or "shouldn't" vote for; guilt-tripping for votes never did any good. When it all comes down to it we are alone in the voting booth and our vote is between us and God/Goddess/Krishna/Nobody/whatever. All I do is share my perspective and comment on an internet discussion board; I'm hardly some sinister agent for these un-"respectable" third party candidates you refer to. :eyes:

I don't think Obama is an earth-shattering mover and shaker for real economic change. I'll vote for him. At best he is a finger in a cracked dam. At this point, it is my opinion that the Democrats can only delay the inevitable, which is a massive crash and restructuring of our econmy and very way of life.
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regnaD kciN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-08 09:38 PM
Response to Reply #49
72. He's right...
...let's all reinforce our self-satisfied "principled stance" and vote for Ralph again this time! :sarcasm:
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chascarrillo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-08 04:18 PM
Response to Reply #42
45. You convinced me. I'm now voting for McCain. KTHXBAI.
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Runcible Spoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-08 04:21 PM
Response to Reply #45
47. What a wonderful display of nuanced thought process
Look, you can throw as many fucking idiotic straw men at me as you like but that doesn't change reality. Obama needs constant pressure from the Left (us, presumably) to keep him from succombing entirely to the corporate Masters of the Universe. Nobody gets that high up in the system without their stamp of approval.
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chascarrillo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-08 04:27 PM
Response to Reply #47
52. And your "OOH! CHICAGO BAAAAAAD!!!1!" was so nuanced.
You know what? Obama does things that I don't approve of. I don't start threads about them before the election because there is simply no other option in this election. After Nov 4th, fine.
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Runcible Spoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-08 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #52
61. do you have any idea what Chicago School refers to?
Jesus. PLease read up and get back to me. And I didn't start this thread, but I'm free to throw my 2 cents in, that is until our currency gets devalued into nothingness.
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chascarrillo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-08 06:20 PM
Response to Reply #61
65. Actually, I just bought The Shock Doctrine this morning...
... so I fully expect to be joining you on the barricades in a week or two after I've read it.

Apologies for the snarkiness and all. Been in a pissy mood lately, and that's resulting in a lot of concern trolling on my part. Ugh.
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Runcible Spoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-08 06:23 PM
Response to Reply #65
66. no problem Chasca. I take a beating on here for criticizing Dem economic policies...
I apologize as well. :hug: It's been hard for us all. Shock Doctrine is excellent and infuriating; a life-changing read.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-08 06:29 PM
Response to Reply #66
67. The two of you
raise a number of interesting points. It would be great if you used some of what you wrote as an OP, which could be followed by a serious discussion/debate. Having it on this thread is perhaps not the context for a real discussion, because after reading the OP and a number of the humorous responses, people are apt to dismiss the potential for a valuable discussion here.
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quakerboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-08 05:27 PM
Response to Reply #47
57. How do we provide that pressure
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Runcible Spoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-08 06:01 PM
Response to Reply #57
62. well, there are obviously many avenues.
the most immediate is communication with elected officials. Another is protesting and civil disobedience. Are you asking me a rhetorical question?
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quakerboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-08 08:53 PM
Response to Reply #62
68. No. I just wish
that we could go down a more fruitfull avenue than I percieve from some of these posts. Talking about being bamboozled in my mind acts more as a momentum killer than as anything working to change the situation.

We KNOW we are Fucked if McCain Wins. We know that barring a catastrophe that would make 9/11 and Katrina together look small, none of the current crop of 3rd parties has a chance in the 2008 presidential election. So what can we do that will bring us to a better resolution? Personally, I am running low on ideas.

I agree with you on the communication with our elected officials. I am having some doubts as the the efficaciousness of our current level of protesting/civil disobedience. I know the protests are happening. a few years ago I was doing them. But I have seen no fruit from them. Part of me wants to blame the media, but I do not that that is fair. I think the bigger thing is that we the people no longer have the stomach for it. We are not willing to throw ourselves in wholeheartedly, to be jailed in the 10's of thousands, to the point of choking the whole system and leaving NO choice other than listen to us. There are not enough people willing to say ENOUGH. Hopefully there will be enough who will say Enough in the voting booth.
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demwing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-08 04:06 PM
Response to Original message
38. Yes. You were cheated byt a photograph
which took control of your better judgement and caused you to believe that things are exactly as they appear to be at first glance, :)
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alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-08 04:25 PM
Response to Original message
51. Manny Goldstein, ladies and gentleman
The man who just discovered what most adults have known since they were teenagers: that only center-right economic policies are ever really at play at the federal government level!

The ten o'clock show is always different from the 8 o'clock show, ladies and gentlemen! Don't forget to tip the waitstaff!
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MannyGoldstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-08 09:55 PM
Response to Reply #51
73. A 91% Top Tax Bracket Is Center-Right?
We had a 91% top tax bracket under Eisenhower, and for two of those years Republicans also held bot houses of Congress.

I guess you weren't reading history as a teenager, eh?
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alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-08 10:11 PM
Response to Reply #73
78. Wow
You really had to go back for that one, eh, Manny Goldstein.

Whenever you'd like to discuss the situation over the last 40 years, feel free champ, kay?
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MannyGoldstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-08 11:20 PM
Response to Reply #78
81. The Point Is That Things Change
Edited on Sat Sep-20-08 11:22 PM by MannyGoldstein
Stupid people eventually get smart. Hopefully they get smart in time.

BTW, top tax rate was still 70% or so in the 1970s - when I was a teenager - until Reagan plagued us.

Have a good night!
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alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-08 11:32 PM
Response to Reply #81
83. Reagan was elected 28 years ago
It's a generation.
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FVZA_Colonel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-08 05:55 PM
Response to Original message
60. As annoying as this is, it doesn't turn me away from voting for him.
And it's not something McCain can make into an issue without essentially pissing all over himself, given who he's spoken to.
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TheKentuckian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-08 06:03 PM
Response to Original message
63. Only by and to yourself. I see no reason to have ever
thought Obama was anything more than a "common sense" globalist.

He's also not a dove and would use military force to protect "Pax Americana" should it be required to maintain the system.
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progressiveforever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-08 09:11 PM
Response to Original message
70. We don't have to hold him accountable until after the election
Whatever he does to get elected is OK by me....afterward, he has to perform according to Democratic standards but if he has to kiss the devil to get elected, that's fine.
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BrainStorm Donating Member (922 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-08 10:00 PM
Response to Original message
74. Where did you expect him to go for economic advisors?
It's a scary time on Wall Street and the easiest thing to do is bring back the guy associated with prosperity. The fact that it was a kind of false prosperity is immaterial.

Real change is not going to come from either of the major parties. It's just a lesser to two evils approach.

Maybe the Green Party will put Paul Krugman on as an economic advisor, but until then, we get the dog and pony show.
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MarjorieG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-08 10:07 PM
Response to Original message
76. Obama will seek all opinion.
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-08 11:21 PM
Response to Original message
82. Manny, when it comes to Obama, I hope my exuberance is not irrational.
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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-21-08 12:59 PM
Response to Original message
87. I'm sure they all suck..
http://econ4obama.blogspot.com/2008/06/obama-economic-advisors-and-economic.html
Tuesday, June 3, 2008
The List: Obama's Economists


Economic policy advisors:
Jason Furman (director of economy policy) source bio
Austan Goolsbee (senior economic policy advisor), University of Chicago tax policy expert source Wikipedia website
Karen Kornbluh (policy director) source bio Wikipedia
David Cutler, Harvard health policy expert source Wikipedia website
Jeff Liebman, Harvard welfare expert source Wikipedia website
Michael Froman, Citigroup executive source bio
Daniel Tarullo, Georgetown law professor source bio
David Romer, Berkeley macroeconomist source website
Christina Romer, Berkeley economic historian source website
Richard Thaler, University of Chicago behavioral finance expert source Wikipedia

Robert Rubin, former Treasury Secretary source Wikipedia bio
Larry Summers, former Treasury Secretary source Wikipedia bio
Alan Blinder, former Vice-chairman of the Federal Reserve source Wikipedia bio website
Jared Bernstein, Economic Policy Institute labor economist source bio
James Galbraith, University of Texas macroeconomist source Wikipedia website

Paul Volcker, Chairman of the Federal Reserve 1979-1987 source Wikipedia
Laura Tyson, Berkeley international economist, Bill Clinton economic adviser source Wikipedia
Robert Reich, Berkeley public policy professor, former Secretary of Labor source Wikipedia weblog
Peter Henry, Stanford international economist source website
Gene Sperling, former White House economic adviser source Wikipedia

Other prominent economists who support Obama:
Brad Delong, Berkeley macroeconomist source Wikipedia website weblog
Joseph Stiglitz, 2001 Nobel laureate source Wikipedia
Edmund Phelps, 2006 Nobel laureate source Wikipedia
Ray Fair, Yale macroeconomist source Wikipedia
Dan McFadden, 2000 Nobel laureate source website
Robert Solow, 1987 Nobel laureate source Wikipedia

Prominent finance people who support Obama:
(not actually economists)
William Donaldson, Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) Chair 2003-05 source Wikipedia
Arthur Levitt, SEC chair 1993-2001 source Wikipedia
David Ruder, SEC chair 1987-1989 source Wikipedia
Warren Buffet, investor, richest person in world
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