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The Republicans will not kill the bill in any scenario

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Kurt_and_Hunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-25-08 04:54 PM
Original message
The Republicans will not kill the bill in any scenario
If the Republicans managed to defeat the bill it would be the final end of the Republican party. Thus no Republican has any political leverage, and they can be ignored. Lots of folks want to vote against it, but only if passage is guaranteed.

There is something unique about this bill, politically. It is tied to the real world in an immediate way.

If the bill is voted down over the weekend the DOW will drop 1500 points Monday. That's not hyperbole. That fact has nothing to do with the broader wisdom of the bill. It's just a fact about the market.

So there is no possible way the bill will be voted down. None. Zero.

No political party will be directly responsible for a stock market panic a month before standing for election.

The "Republican revolt" theme is something the talking heads and wing-nuts are working just to pass the time.

EXAMPLE: Pat Buchanan is on HARDBALL right now suggesting the pugs should kill the bill so they can substitute their own bill. What he doesn't recognize is that this isn't immigration. Non-passage will have direct, immediate and highly visible consequences. Pat's imagined effort for a Republican bill would take place during a market melt-down... that's not gonna work.
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CJCRANE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-25-08 04:57 PM
Response to Original message
1. I think you're right.
The Repubs are gaining political capital in taking a stand but a deal has to be reached due to the market dynamics you've described (it's a kind of self-fulfilling prophecy).
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Kurt_and_Hunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-25-08 05:13 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. They misread the public, and not for the first time
Of course they got hundreds of negative calls. This bill is opposed by craz... er, energized people on both ends of the political spectrum.

But the polls suggesting the public opposed the bill were horribly worded push-polls.

This is a case where the silent majority is real. The average American will piss and moan about this all day long, but that doesn't mean they actually want it to be rejected. That's what the pugs are missing.
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OneGrassRoot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-25-08 05:36 PM
Response to Reply #6
15. Thanks for your insight. Much appreciated. n/t
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geek tragedy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-25-08 04:58 PM
Response to Original message
2. And, there's no way McCain can vote against it
when he's gone on record and staked his candidacy on the very scenario you envision--defeat of the bill will lead to a stock market collapse.

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Kurt_and_Hunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-25-08 05:04 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Anyone can vote against it... if they're SURE it will pass anyway.
But if it fails everyone who voted no is politically dead on the spot.

Bill Clinton's tax hike was like this. Everyone knew a week in advance the senate vote would be 51-49 in favor. The only question was which Dems would be allowed to vote against it.
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geek tragedy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-25-08 05:12 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. How can McCain vote against it when he said
it would be an utter disaster if it didn't pass?
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Kurt_and_Hunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-25-08 05:14 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. I don't know. How can he rag on Obama for not debating him, then cancel the first debate?
John McCain is not the model of consistency.
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geek tragedy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-25-08 05:24 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. And it's starting to pull him under.
It would be the end of his campaign.
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Kurt_and_Hunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-25-08 05:43 PM
Response to Reply #11
16. Hey, I have never said he would win. Disaster is his brand.
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BlueIdaho Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-25-08 05:10 PM
Response to Original message
4. Pat's an old school prick
How the hell does he suppose the minority party in the House forces a bill over the will of the majority party? Especially this bill - this year - at this time. Does he really think the Democrats will crumble and scatter? With a national Presidential election at stake?

He presumes too much about the power of his little friends at this moment in history.
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-25-08 05:15 PM
Response to Original message
8. 1, 500 Is A Conservative Estimate
That's only about 14% of its value...In 87 it dropped 27% and was down more than 40% mid day before the bargain hunters stepped in...There was also no net and saturation cable coverage then...
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Kurt_and_Hunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-25-08 05:22 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. I was being conservative intentionally
1500 wouldn't even be a "crash." But it is still more than the public would tolerate. I would expect a big drop Monday, then weeks (or a decade) of stair-stepping down.

Unlike 1987, we don't have any interest rates left to cut. (The difference between 2% and 0% is meaningless when you can't borrow at any price.)
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gravity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-25-08 05:15 PM
Response to Original message
9. It's all a game
They know the bill will pass, but its all about the politics behind it
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WeDidIt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-25-08 05:24 PM
Response to Original message
12. I don't buy that there would be a depression any longer
otherwsie, REpublcians would not be balking right now.

So let the fucking thing die. Kill it DEAD!
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Kurt_and_Hunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-25-08 05:30 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. You underestimate the irresponsibility of House Republicans
You could say everything you just said about global warming, nuclear proliferation, disaster in Iraq....

The welfare of America is genuinely unimportant to congressional ideologues.



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BeyondGeography Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-25-08 05:33 PM
Response to Original message
14. Good description of why this bill is needed and is only a first step here
Watch the video; Bill Gross of Pimco is one the more respected voices in finance (in the no-bullshit, bond guy manner):

http://www.cnbc.com/id/26885559

I agree with you; major market crash if this isn't done.
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geek tragedy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-25-08 05:44 PM
Response to Original message
17. Looks like they just did.
Let us stare into the abyss.
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Kurt_and_Hunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-25-08 05:50 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. What happened? I haven't seen McCain yet.
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Hawkowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-25-08 06:14 PM
Response to Original message
19. You misunderestimate their stupidity
Oh, I think they may not kill the bill altogether, but they are going to delay it enough to cause real harm. Harm to the economy and permanent harm to their party.
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Kurt_and_Hunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-25-08 06:16 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. We shouldn't play along. Call a vote.
Stop pretending they have leverage they don't have.
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