Sounds like a bunch of Repubs are going to vote against the bailout bill.

GA congressman (Phil Gingrey-R) on Faux just said he and many others are leaning hard against the bill. Could be more than half of the Repubs will vote against it. If true Pelosi may not bring it to a vote. This is not a done deal.

Maybe it can buy us time to go back to the drawing board and come up with something more reasonable.

This is about as reasonable as it can get, if you ask me;

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x7235889

I think it is.

I've stated my opinion and backed it up with very specific, detailed criticisms.

Those who are following the debate can make up their own minds. Hopefully, they will not be ruled by fear.

It's a paranoia fest.

There is much panic and paranoia over the idea that our economy will grind to a halt by tomorrow morning if this bailout isn't passed.

and I have 60K in it, plus my savings, and some CD's, so if anyone should be worried about NOT getting the bail out, IT's ME.

People who don't have a pot to piss in, don't want the fucking bailout. I DO.

hurts people with the least the most. Look at the Depression. I side with you very strongly on this.

something again, I'd be saying; NO BAILOUT....but I'm not. People really need to think this through. Better safe than sorry.

For example, when they walk into a store I doubt they consider for a moment how the store got all of its inventory, how the manufacturers of those products paid for their capital equipment, or even how they have credit on their credit cards.

Most of that I will go through in the next month or so. If credit freezes up, which is net 30 for me, I have NO other way to restock, other than to use my personal income/credit cards. I have low overhead, since I work from home, but if I had a shop, I'd be out of business in a month, and that, after 8 years of this business.

I have a woman starting to work for me next week, and have had a really tight budget all year. I have to pay her $12.00 an hour, plus travel expenses. It's not going to leave me much profit this year, but I need her, and will have to bite the bullet, and hope for more business before the end of the year.

Local banks have said they are prepared to work with small businesses effected by the credit crunch.

No one.

Maybe this will make you feel better:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=4114798&mesg_id=4114798

Smaller Banks Thrive Out of the Fray of Crisis
People Shift Money From Wall St. to Main St.

by Binyamin Appelbaum
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, September 26, 2008; Page D01


The industry is resilient despite the struggles of some members. Washington Mutual, a troubled Seattle savings and loan that was among the nation's largest mortgage lenders, yesterday was seized by the government and sold to J.P. Morgan Chase.

At the same time, many smaller banks said they were actually benefiting from the problems on Wall Street. Deposits are flowing in as customers flee riskier investments, and well-qualified borrowers are lining up for loans.

"We collect money from local savers, and we lend it in the local community," said William Dunkelberg, chairman of Liberty Bell Bank in Cherry Hill, N.J. "We're doing fine. There are 9,000 financial institutions out there, and most of them are small and most of them are doing fine."

Dunkelberg, a professor of economics at Temple University and chief economist for the National Federation of Independent Business, added that a recent survey of that group's members found that only 2 percent said getting a bank loan was the great challenge facing their businesses.


Even some of the nation's largest banks, which have pushed hard for a federal bailout, deny that the current situation is forcing them to reduce lending. "The strength of our core businesses, capital and liquidity are enabling us to continue to support our customers," Bank of America, the nation's largest bank, said in a statement. It added, however, that the bailout plan would allow more lending.

(....)

"The banking system did need to slow down," Fitzgerald said. As it does, riskier customers are being turned away. At the same time, banks that overextended are now forced to turn away even good customers. The challenge for Chain Bridge, he said, is identifying the worthwhile customers. The bank has plenty of money to make good loans, he said.

...and that's because:

1) They hold their notes so the vast majority of their loans get paid.

2) The majority of their outstanding loans are backed by deposits, not leveraged on other loans.

3) They have personal relationships with their customers and are willing to loan money, to a degree, based on the person and not random numbers.


I have no idea what my FICO score is and I don't care. As long as I'm a member of my credit union, I will always be able to borrow money when needed. They know me. They know what I make and the know I've always paid my loans off. They also aren't leveraged to the hilt, so they DO have money to loan.

There WILL be institutions lending money.

However, if you are worried about your bank, instead of pushing for this bailout, push for Congress to fully fund FDIC (only 50% is funded now).

If the system of credit collapses, that's it. Game over. The economy will absolutely crumble. I am not talking about the FDIC. You are thinking far far too narrowly on this subject.

Everybody's pretending that as long as the Federal prints more money we'll actually have plenty to cover this.

At least none that I've seen so far.

Or OPEC might switch from the dollar to maybe the euro. Either one of these scenarios is much worse than whatever we would go through if we don't approve this bailout.

This bailout is a bad deal. It doesn't help the homeowners, and it puts future generations in debt.

No healtcare, no education, no nothing except a big bill to pay.

Just saying. If you're not one of those high-stakes rollers, it's best to make sure you can fall back on that FDIC insurance.

If banks fail en masse, sure, people below $100,000 are fine in terms of their deposits, but most people operate heavily on credit as do most companies. With a collapsed banking system, credit will dry up and the economy will contract extremely rapidly as a result.

Most of the remaining large banks are in better shape, with a few notable exceptions.

Several large banks and most small banks are doing very well right now. Wells Fargo just broke through their all time high and have announced an eagerness to take on clients from the failed institutions.

You are throwing out this hypothetical scenario, but there are few clear signs that a such a breakdown will occur without the immediate passage of this bill.

There are clear indications that we are and have been in a recession. Things are going to be difficult with or without a bailout bill. I fail to see the need for rushing through such a poorly crafted piece of legislation when we have the chance to do something more useful.

Take the payout you get from the FDIC and put your money into local banks. They are actually doing very well right now. In fact, a few hundred billion to successful local banks would enable them to step into the void left by the failed big guys. But we probably wouldn't even need to do that. We can raise interest rates a bit, shore up our dollar and encourage saving which would start to turn around the liquidity problems.

But I do have a pot to piss in and not a damn red cent in the bank that is going to affect me if my bank fails. I'm old enough to have children but for the time that we live in I can't imagine bringing a child into this world b/c of the things we are suffering through today. I have worked hard since I have been 16 years old and I have paid my taxes. I will not under any means support this because it not only lays that at my feet, it lays it at the feet of my unborn children and grandchildren. I would rather suffer through a depression caused by the corporatist son of a bitches that caused this shit than to leave TRILLIONS of Dollars in debt to my posterity.

and essentially make it a free-market bill. You seem to think this is a good thing. There is very little Democratic opposition to this bill.

LOL

You're just as bad as a freeper then. At it's core it may be Paulson's plan, but it has been heavily heavily heavily modified. You just made an ass of yourself on an issue you clearly don't understand.

Knowing that the republicans don't want it...gives me pause. The bailout is probably a good thing. When did we ever believe that the republicans had our best interest at heart???? What have they ever done that would lead us to believe that they know what's best here???? Isn't the last eight years and this disaster enough to prove that they don't know what the fuck they are doing. Yet you have DUers cheering...oh the republicans...they come to save the day!!! The republicans, who have kissed wall streets ass for eight years, are going to save the middle class...whooopeee!

They want to force a debate, which is actually the responsible thing to do.

This needs floor time before it's voted on.

Rep. Marcy Kaptur (D-OH):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAADyc6t4nY

eom

Plenty of Democrats and Republicans will support it AND oppose it.

A debate with the republicans can only produce one thing...less for the middle class and more for their wall street buddies.

Are you REALLY that sure of this proposal...especially in light of the fact that Bush submitted the plan to Congress?

to vote for a solution then they are to blame.

they won't do that because they want political cover should the bailout turn out be a disaster. After all this is a problem created primarily by Bush and the Repubs, so why should the Dems take the all the risk in the bailout plan.

If this is it, if it's really the only thing that can be done *and so far, this is all we've heard from them), then who gives f*** if it's good for the Repubs or bad for the Dems?? Whoever is voting for it needs to get behind it and vote- stop b.s.ing and support it. How the hell are they going to get us behind it if they can't just come out and do it?? Forget their damn political positions for a minute and put us first.

there is no choice at this point.

thats like saying you havent died of cancer yet so why treat it?

I can see how the opposition can argue against the deal and get away with it... for now.

There isn't much more you can do to make more republicans vote for it.

which could cause some of the blue-dog Dems to get cold feet as well. Some are also speculating McCain may reject it to capture headlines and throw another "Hail Mary". This could spiral out of control tomorrow morning.

The house republicans are probably going to claim that McCain helped them get on board this bill, to prove that he can make bipartisan compromises or something.

McCain and the Repubs are feeling squeezed and may feel the need to do something more dramatic and desperate.

but if it gets 80, it can still be passed off as bipartisan.

This bill reeks of BOHICA!

We do have time to figure things out.

No one will die tomorrow if the bill isn't passed. No corporations will fail that quickly.

Without health insurance, however, hundreds are dying each day.

If they are going to pass SOMETHING (and I believe they should) then we can't expect better than this.

Word is McCain might not even show up to vote on the damn thing.

Watch Bernie Sanders' speech to Senate opposing the bailout:

http://www.sanders.senate.gov/news/record.cfm?id=303785

while the bankers get off with their yachts.

Approve the bailout and kiss goodbye to every Democratic proposal for education, health care, etc.

The proposed bill is in a link up-thread.

I remember the photo of all those assholes from both parties at the Rose Garden supporting Bush's request for authority to attack Iraq.

including Fanny and Freddy, it all adds up to $1.8 trillion.

The Fed doesn't use a pool of taxpayer money. This is a huge misconception. As for Fannie and Freddie, that is a very questionable argument indeed. In the case of the $700 billion, there's a very good chance that they will not have to use all of that as many institutions won't want any piece of those terms. What's more is that I could not possibly argue that the government would be buying totally worthless assets. If all mortgage backed securities are actually worthless, as in not worth a cent, then we might as well just burn all of our money right now because our entire system is so insolvent that we will go back to the stone age.

You understand that if bank after bank after bank collapses, the government will have to bail them out through the FDIC.

The idea that the bailout = IWR, Patriot Act, etc. is ABSURD. I am under no illusion of the risk of doing this bailout is. There is a good chance it doesn't even work. But the alternative is a WORSE option. So I support the Dodd bill. The Right Wingers are against it because they hate the government. Now that their reign of power (Terror?) is over, they suddenly have lost interest in bailing ANYONE out.

I feel more confident than I did a couple days ago. Not relieved, per se, but more confident. If anything is to pass, I hope this is it.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=7235889&mesg_id=7235889

on the CURRENT legislation.

We should be able to discern between genuine and fake concerns.

What education and experience do you have that makes you so certain that this is the only way out of the mess and that giving Congress a few days to digest this will cause the world to come to an end?

"whose payroll are you on?"

It gives to much authority to the Sec. of the Treasury, no guaranteed equity stake and no transparency. Democrats rolled over on executive compensation and bankruptcy judgments. It has loopholes allowing payouts above the purchase rate.

It is a terrible deal for citizens.

I wonder if you work for the industry. I think you ought to disclose whatever connections you have.

This bailout is VERY unpopular. It's possible that it is necessary, but this is not a winner for Democratic Party short or long term

dung.

http://thenextright.com/patrick-ruffini/republicans-should-vote-against-the-bailout

God Himself couldn't have given rank-and-file Republicans a better opportunity to create political space between themselves and the Administration. That's why I want to see 40 Republican No votes in the Senate, and 150+ in the House. If a bailout is to pass, let it be with Democratic votes. Let this be the political establishment (Bush Republicans in the White House + Democrats in Congress) saddling the taxpayers with hundreds of billions in debt (more than the Iraq War, conjured up in a single weekend, and enabled by Pelosi, btw), while principled Republicans say "No" and go to the country with a stinging indictment of the majority in Congress.

I feel bad for the rest of the nation.

Pelosi not only is shoveling 700 billion taxpayer dollars into the pockets of thieves and predators, she is giving the House to the Republicans in a few weeks, if she only requires 80 of them to vote for it in order to bring it to the floor.

And she is so proud of herself. Words fail.

What a great deal this is that neither candidate want the onus of casting a vote on it!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3517090

the better for Barack. McCain's own strategist Schmidt has said that they are hoping a deal gets done soon and they can change the subject away from the economy.