1st it's great it failed, 2nd Repubs are going to beat the Dems over the heads with it

The good news is this lipstick deficient pig didn't pass. The bad news is the Republicans faked the Democrats out of their collective jock straps on this thing.

Although in a LOT of ways this is a victory for the American people who it seems won't be handing over fully a trillion dollars to Wall Street bankers, ultimately this may hurt, as the Republican's now have two tools at their disposal. They are the Claw Hammer of "Democrats wanted to hand your hard earned money over to the billionaires, and didn't help you when you were losing your houses." And the Chain Saw of "see how ineffective the Democrats are in a crisis? They couldn't even pass the plan THEY negotiated with the White House.

The Republicans are the Chicago Bears, and the Democrats are The Little Sisters of the Poor, in terms of the game of politics.

The Republicans CAUSED THIS CRISIS, with 30 years of deregulatory zeal and free market fundamentalism. Now they are going to USE this crisis to point out the ineffectual nature of the Democrats. I am sore afraid.

On EDIT:

Since so many seem to be TOTALLY misinterpreting my motivation:

This is a statement of my FEAR of what will happen. My fear is based on the last 12 years of Republican's handing the Democrats their collective lunch. That's all. It isn't a "fond wish" on my part.

And just a little tip: before you decide someone is a "troll" try reading some of the other posts they have written. If you had you MIGHT have seen that I am no such thing, and may have avoided the unseemly stupidity of being a kneejerk... well, jerk.

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They said it was Pelosi's speech that upset some of them and made them change their minds.

Repubs have no leadership. They are the party of the "Wild west" now.

Just to continue the mixed metaphore... but like I said I am sore afraid. The Republicans have been playing Lucy to the Democrats Charlie Brown for a long while now.

Are you lost?

It is a fairly common sports cliche.

mocking the Rethugs and their "feelings".

I will try to catch his words in a clip later. And BTW, I really hope I am wrong about the counter attack.

Second...the republicans are too blame.
Third...the market is crashing and the republicans are too blame
Fourth...the hard working dems who did all they could...are smelling like a rose!

I was just voicing my fears, based on the political machinations of the last 12 years or so...

:eyes:

For reading comprehention challenged folks such as yourself.

If this was as unpopular as you claim, McCain would be going with the House Republicans and opposing the bill. Both McCain and Obama supported this thing but McCain inserted himself into it and now he shares part of the blame for its failure.

McCain introduced the House Republican plan in what was supposed to be a "show meeting" after the deal was tentatively done last Thursday. The when he saw that the raw fact showed he screwed up what was done deal he said he would support it on Friday.

I don't think the majority of the American people supported this $700 Billion give away to Wall Street. Every story I heard and every phone call to places like Tom Hartman, AND Faux, hated this plan. I could be wrong about that and would welcome a source correcting my perception regarding the degree of support out there for the bail out that was just defeated.


Edited for Spelling

some Thursday and Friday and then fell today. So that this whole thing of the sky is falling is BS.

People were expecting this to pass - so those with a cash flow gambled the way the media and they expected it to go today.

Sad for those day traders but good for the country. The way the economic life of a nation is - you cannot bail out a systemic problem. Sure, bailout today, Okay, but then when Bread is 6,000 bucks a loaf because you've deflated the dollar - then what??

and if all you're missing is your jock strap then suck it up and count yourself lucky fool.

Yeah, yeah, blah, blah, you are speaking out of your fear, well guess what? It is your fear that makes you look like a puss, and what the Repubs have used for years to hand you your ass time and time again at the polls. It is what makes YOU ineffectual.

Fear is the mind killer and it seems indeed, that fear has crippled your capacity for critical thinking. If you think its "great" that it failed, then grow a pair and accept the consequences without complaint, after all, you got what you wanted.

I however, have a lot more at stake than just an election. Things get just the slightest bit worse than they are already and I'll be living in the street. Should that happen I'll be thinking of you and those like you that can't see past the end of your own noses, and they won't be warm and fuzzy thoughts.

But you know what? I'm not afraid, I'm just more determined to work harder to defeat those assholes and get somebody in there that will actually reform or replace the system that is so broken it has led to this. We can't do that without a leader that has the balls and the smarts to do it. Barack Obama is that man. I'll follow HIS advice how to get there because I think he knows more than you or I how to that. Meanwhile I'll remember ...

I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain

Or was that my imagination asshole?

My fear is not about what should be or what is good and right... my fear is reality based and until I wake up on November 5th, 2008 with Barrack Obama elected to replace Dim Son, and an even larger Democratic majority in the House and Senate, I will not rest. I will NOT stop reminding people of the Machiavellian machinations of the GOP.

If you think that makes me a puss I would say you have it exactly backward. Dick-heads like YOU are the ones who are so smug in their riotousness that they imagine they have nothing to fear, who are functional pussies, because you site in your righteous knowledge of the justness of our cause. You are so sure that "this time" the American people will shed the scales from their eyes, that you don't even enter the fight. And the beat goes on. Fuck you and you complacency. If I have alerted even ONE more activist Democrat to to stay awake then I have done what I set out to do.

The people that are 'faked out' are those that think the only harm done by not doing anything about this crisis is to the very rich or to the coming election. Those of us at the bottom of the food chain know better. We are already living it and the last fucking thing we are is complacent. Regardless of your silly assumptions WE are the ones who are actually fighting while you sit back and point out things to be afraid of.

We're long past the time of simply staying awake. What's needed now are people who have the courage to fight and fear does not breed courage. Fear is paralyzing, it stops growth, it smothers change. Each set of eyes that opens to that will make the fight that much easier. I hope you are among them, but either way I'm going to keep right on fighting.

And on top of it you don't even understand the spiritual war poetry you quoted at the end of your attack on me.

I attacked the childish attitude spewing forth from your fingers, but carry on arm chair warrior. I don't have time for your playground antics and name calling, there's actual work to be done with people that give a shit.

As I said the Bill failed, you got what you wanted so grow a pair and quit whining about what you THINK it cost you.

And where exactly are you responding from hero? I bet if not an armchair a desk chair.

You have no time for me eh? You apparently have no time for a substantive rebuttal either. I will keep up the good fight at my neighbors doors stumping for Obama and you keep up the fight in what ever way you choose. Hopefully we will both get what we want: Obama in the White House and a larger majority in the House and Senate.

even as I type. He's done a 180 since 2004. Voted for Bush then and is voting this year for Obama. He thinks McCain is a joke.

I'm thinking lots of the fiscal conservatives will be voting for Obama in November.

Keep beating that dead horse into the ground.

Hello one more year of work.

Nothing. There is a crisis... Something DOES need to be done... but handing over close to 3/4 of a TRILLION dollars to the very people (with no consequences) who ruined the companies in need of saving is certainly not my idea of a good idea (and not the idea of a LOT of Americans).

I assume you think me cold because I am glad this bill died. But your mistake is in assuming that my being glad that this bill dies means I think there is no reason to make this situation better. I answer that a BAD answer is no solution. A better answer, that hold the CEO's accountable, that reinstates regulations, that buys/insures these bad debts at reasonable market driven prices, that buys equity in these concerns etc etc etc ... would be a solution that I ans a solidly middle class person who hasn't ever made enough to afford to save in a 401K, could get behind.

Keep beating that dead horse into the ground.

Democrats who voted against it.

And shame on Pelosi and Reid!!

its better to sit quietly and have people think you're an idiot, rather than open your mouth and prove it beyond a reasonable doubt.

I was bringing up a Machiavellian possibility not beyond these Republicans. Instead of just attacking me for my thoughts on a possible political scenario, why not discuss with me why what I am thinking may or may not come to pass?

Why just call names instead?

Majority of Democrats voted YES.

Bashing the Democrats over the head aint going to fly when the bashing is for voting no. The snooker was to get the bill to pass with only Democratic votes. Ooops, they FAILED.

I think the fact that the majority of Dems voted yes and the majority of Repubs voted no, leave open the possibility for the Repubs to say "see we saved you," to the public.... but I agree with you that the spin that has developed has made that possibility much less likely than I thought.

And thanks for just discussing and not simply calling me names.

I agree that the republicans will use this against us in all of those ways you just said.

At the same time though, I was about to start a topic on a similar thing until I saw yours. I wonder who this will hurt more, the democrats, or John McCain.

Think for a moment, McCain lost the debate because of the economy, and now that what's been touted as the solution to the ailing economy has failed that's only going to make people even more worried about the economy. Given all of McCain's economy related mistakes the house republicans may very well have hurt both democrats in congress as well as their own presidential nominee.

First thanks for initiating a conversation and not just as name calling episode.

Will this hurt the Democrats and the Democrats in congress? Hmm I actually am watching the spin game and there are good signs. I think that the Dems have taken some preemptive actions to inoculate against the scenario I posited earlier. The best response so far belongs to Barney frank - which someone up thread let me know about. So I have to say I am pleasantly surprised that the Democratic congress critters (nod to Molly Ivins) have come out at l least at the start playing the game well. I am now optimistic that even if the Repubs TRY to use the gambit I envisaged, the Dems will have neutralized it already.

Good on them!

And I think there can be no doubt at all that McCain will be and IS hurt by this. I think the perception is that his call to get involved derailed the original agreement, and emboldened the House Republicans to pull exactly this stunt. That's my take.

Just saying

& anyone who thinks this won't bite the Repubs in the butt is nothing but a secret Freeper

But you go ahead & stand w/ Rush Limbaugh and the right wing crazies if you want to, no hard feelings

You and some up-thread call me freeper and troll.. and imply that I am some secret repub. It is even WORSE in your case, since you failed to even TRY to do as I suggested and look at some of my other posts. So I don't feel even a little bad is saying this:

Fuck you and the GWB-degree of idiocy that you displayed in your post.

u seem very comfortable parroting the Freeper line & promoting O'Reilly

1.) It's pretty fucking terrible that it failed unless you really like the idea of another Depression.

2.) It seems we're beating McCain over the head with it.


I'm going to go with my gut on this one and say you're oh-for-two.

1) I didn't say nothing should be done. As a matter of fact if you read my responses in this thread it is obvios that I do think something should be done.

2) I never said that this was anything more than a opinion rendered AT THE TIME THE BAIL OUT FAILED. Obviously it was a take on a possible outcome. Based on how thoroughly gamed the Democrats have been by the Republican spin machine over the last 12 years or so, I'd say it was more than reasonable to think it might happen again.

I am not concerned about being "right" and am GLAD to have been wrong about #2.