Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Differences between 2004 and 2008 that make election rigging alot less feasible:

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU
 
jazzjunkysue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-04-08 04:42 PM
Original message
Differences between 2004 and 2008 that make election rigging alot less feasible:
1. There are several people sitting in jail now, for election tampering.

2. There are important people talking publicly about rigging, like Kennedy and MarK Crispin Miller.

3. It was obvious for months that the 2004 race was about Ohio and Florida. This time, there are too many open states to set up rigging in enough of them to help.

4. The Bush crime family has the power and pockets to bribe tech experts to take the risks. I doubt seriously if Gramps has the inclination/connections/power/where-withall to pull it off. I also doubt the GOP is willing to go that far for gramps. They hate him.

5. W had old bro Jeb in Florida in both 2000 and 2004 to cover his tracks.

6. Alot of people remember the Florida touch screen machines popping up Bush when they had tapped Kerry. My own students told me their grandparents had that happen to them.

7. It's just not close enough this time to be believable.

8. Obama is much more likely to hold on and refuse to concede under pressure. He hasn't been swiftboated and softened up.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
berni_mccoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-04-08 04:54 PM
Response to Original message
1. 9. Many more states are run by Democratic Governors.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Arkana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-04-08 04:56 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Spotlight: Ohio.
Jennifer Brunner runs things now, not Kreepy Ken Blackwell.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jazzjunkysue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-04-08 04:58 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. That's what really counts: Down ticket is really up ticket. Thanks. Good one.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
donco6 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-04-08 04:56 PM
Response to Original message
3. Far too many are far too fed up.
I agree with no. 7.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
kimmerspixelated Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-04-08 04:59 PM
Response to Original message
5. You have some very hopeful points!
But I didn't realize the GOP hated McCain. I guess I missed something. If Palin was picked by the neocons, and they hate McCain't, then we have a very dangerous situation on our hands if he wins. But, really ditching Michigan makes me think there is finally HOPE we will win!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jazzjunkysue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-04-08 05:18 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. The GOP despises Gramps almost as much as we do. They aren't helping him
Edited on Sat Oct-04-08 05:18 PM by jazzjunkysue
much. The money's not flowing in, the endorsements are stilted or muffled. He's not their pit bull. He's not anyone's pit bull.

On his own, he commands little in the way of commercial opportunities for other low-lifes to drool over.

The party didn't want him but they had nothing better to offer: Mitt was a disgrace: Too librul. Thompson was a non-starter. People are repulsed by Rudy. The money machine feared Huckabee. They were cooked before they started, and they've known it all along.

That's why I seriously doubt if anyone will risk federal prison to put the geezer in office. He, himself, can't even comprehend electronic vote rigging, let alone approve it. He's never touched a computer, even to vote, probably.

The GOP is DOA. It's Weekend at Bernie's, and we're too financially fragile to go along with the pretense.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-04-08 05:15 PM
Response to Original message
6. #6... southern liberal texas and thru out new mexico we watched vote change when pressed kerry
starting with 2 week early voting thru out election day, and not a damn thing was done about it. was it every three vote, 6.... 10, we dont know. but we know kerry was losing votes
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jazzjunkysue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-04-08 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. Wow! They rigged Texas????? I hadn't heard that. Shit.
It's probably the last place they had to worry about. How stupid do you have to be?????
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
crazy_vanilla Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-04-08 05:30 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. Yes, I have a Diebold guy living right across from me
Every time I see the frickin Diebold truck parked in his driveway, it brings the 2004 election to mind. Depressing.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jazzjunkysue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-04-08 05:43 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. I'd have to move.
:scared:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-04-08 05:42 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. kerry had a lot of supposrt. bush didnt have the people. the repugs had head down
tails between legs not enthused. after they declared it for bush the repugs literally.... literally
had a shocked look on hteir face like, how the hell did you let him win again. it was pathetic. and i am in very red

i was going around talking about kerry to EVERYONE and NEVER had one person defend bushco.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
renate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-04-08 05:24 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. in Texas? WTH?
:wow: Was that flipping programmed in at the factory? Why would they bother messing with Texas?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-04-08 05:43 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. cause texas was NOT strong bush. there are a lot, lot of liberals in austin, houston, elpaso. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
renate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-04-08 05:51 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. really? in Houston? that's a surprise
Good to know. Is McCain having to spend money in Texas?

I always thought of Texas, except for Austin, as being deep red.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-04-08 06:11 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. texas is pink on some of the maps. i am in the panhandle. way conservative.
ans even we have a lot of obama. to this point i have now seen about three, four mccain stickers. running more than ten obama.....

my kids use to be the only one in school backing obama, now they are getting quite a crowd. the only way this happens is if the parents are supporting

i personally cannot handle this texas attitude anymore and have become an isolationist.... so i cant say a lot. but whereever i am, i do talk obama and have 7 stickers on car and not having any problems.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Sebastian Doyle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-04-08 05:21 PM
Response to Original message
9. 10) Homer Simpson will warn America on November 2!
People who don't listen to Nova M, or Air America, or read Greg Palast, DO watch The Simpsons!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1aBaX9GPSaQ
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-04-08 06:31 PM
Response to Original message
17. While I think some of your points are true, many of them are conjecture (what the Bush Cartel
thinks of McDrone and Ms. To Nowhere, for instance) and some do not indicate any result as to reforming our voting system. Kennedy and Mark Crispin Miller can talk themselves blue in the fact about the profound insecurity of our voting system, but in what venues, reaching how many people, and what has been done about it?

As to the latter--what has been done about it?--the answer is virtually nothing, by officialdom. Half the country will be voting with no paper ballot and no paper trail of any kind. No audit or recount is even possible. The other half may vote on a paper ballot, but those ballots are just dumped into a box and never counted, while the electronic total, produced by 'TRADE SECRET' code, becomes the official total. Some states, of the ones that even have a ballot, do a 1% audit--totally inadequate in 'TRADE SECRET' code. (Some experts say a 10% audit is the MINIMUM necessary to detect fraud.)

My main criticism of your post is what it leaves out--the basic facts of our voting system that indicate that Corpo/fascist forces can easily--EASILY!--(s)elect the president and vice president, members of Congress, and, indeed, any office in the country. The voting system is more than 99% non-transparent and extremely insecure, with the 'TRADE SECRET,' PROPRIETARY code by which votes are tabulated owned and controlled by Bushwhack corporations, with virtually no audit/recount controls.

The trouble with some (a lot of) political analysis is that it assumes that, if Democrats win, we have not suffered a Corpo/fascist coup d'etat. The $700 billion bottomless bailout of the richest people on earth--the latest in a series of lootings of our treasury and our pocketbooks that are without precedent in history--should teach us that we have, indeed, suffered a coup--that we will have the Forever War and the Forever Looting--unto the 7th, the 8th, the 9th generations--no matter who, of the R's and the D's, is in charge.

Fact #3--in addition to Facts #1 and 2 ('TRADE SECRET' vote counting; virtually no audit/recount controls)--is the most dismaying of all, and that is the silence of our Democratic Party leadership on this egregiously anti-democratic, mindbogglingly non-transparent voting system--whether out of fear or corruption, it is hard to tell.

The uses of Corpo/fascist direct control of election outcomes are many--not just the obvious one that any election can be stolen. EASILY stolen. This non-transparent control of election results is both a symptom of how bad things are, in every other way--because it could not have been put in place in the USA without serious, endemic corruption--and it is not just a means of the global corporate predators selecting particular candidates, but it is also a tool of fear and blackmail and intimidation, and it is a means of insuring that office holders are not beholden to us--to we, the people--but rather to the Corpo/fascists who control the voting machines. Office holders thus become deaf to us--and we have major examples of this all over the landscape of the last four years, the most obvious one being the Iraq War. 70% of the American people oppose the Iraq War and want it ended; we voted, with that as the number issue, and elected Democrats to do something about it--but the new Democratic Congress did exactly the opposite of the will of the people. They ESCALATED the war, and gave Bush/Cheney billions and billions more of our non-existent tax dollars to keep killing Iraqis until they sign the oil contracts.

When you have a non-transparent vote counting system, you are forced to look for inferential evidence that elections have been stolen, and, of course, the system has been designed to make it difficult or impossible to prove. One strong inferential piece of evidence that the 06 Congressional elections were stolen is a Congress with a TEN PERCENT APPROVAL RATING--worse than Bush's!

Were these people elected? There is hardly a one of them who can prove that they actually were. And--surprise, surprise!--they have engaged in one action after another in diametrical opposition to the interests and the opinions of the vast majority of the American people.

Because Obama supports the Forever War (--wants to move it to Afghanistan), and supports the most mind-boggling theft of national wealth ever to occur, and other such Corpo/fascist policies, they may well (s)elect him, figuring he can't do too much damage as to reclaiming our wealth and restoring our democracy; his (s)election will dampen the alarms of good people like RFK and Mark Crispin Miller, about the election system, and prevent the sort of massive citizen reform movement that is needed to restore PUBLIC VOTE COUNTING, and then they can EASILY get rid of Obama (whose administration will, in any case, be burdened with gazillions in debt), and bring on Hitler II in 2012. That is the Germany 1930s model. But this time there won't be any need for the "brownshirts" to stuff ballot boxes and beat up voters. It will all be completely invisible--perhaps run from some computer facility in Dubai.

You correctly observe that the national political climate seems to be altered--apparently for the good. But I think you underestimate the long term plans of the Corpo/fascists who have gained total control of our economy, our military, our public airwaves, and our very voting system. The latter is the coup de grace--the final blow--to our democracy. And we must fix this. We MUST--or our country and our democracy will be irrecoverable. (It is still fixable at the state/local level, with sufficient citizen pressure--but not at the national level. Beware the Diebold III Congress "fixing" the election system--as the Anthrax Congress did.)

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Phx_Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-04-08 06:32 PM
Response to Original message
18. Also, alot more states now have Democratic Governors
which could hamper their plans to steal a state like, say OHIO, Virginia, North Carolina. McNasty CAN NOT win without Ohio, and given the rate at which he's losing states, he may not be able to win WITH Ohio.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Fri May 03rd 2024, 05:18 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC