Round 3: The Prosecution of John McCain

Do you know the warm progress under the stars?
Do you know we exist?
Have you forgotten the keys to the Kingdom?
Have you been borne yet & are you alive?
Let's reinvent the gods, all the myths of the ages
Celebrate symbols from deep elder forests

We need great golden copulations
The fathers are cackling in trees of the forest
Our mother is dead in the sea
Do you know we are being led to slaughters by placid admirals
& that fat slow generals are getting obscene on young blood
Do you know we are ruled by TV?
--James Douglas Morrison; An American Prayer

Democrats across the nation are eagerly anticipating the third round of the 2008 presidential debates tonight. Barack Obama and John McCain will meet at Hofstra University in Hempstead, New York, squaring off in a debate in which the two will be seated at a table with moderator Bob Schieffer, of CBS. This promises to be the most satisfying of the series of debates for Democrats.

It is expected that part of the discussion will focus upon the McCain campaign’s gutter tactics, in which they have attacked Senator Obama personally. These attacks have been conducted by McCain, Sarah Palin, and others associated with the republican campaign. There was some expectation that McCain would push these attacks in the second round; the fact that he didn’t do so spoke as loudly as anything that he did say.

Since then, both Obama and Joseph Biden have questioned why McCain failed to address the "concerns" about Obama that had become his campaign’s central focus. Senator Biden, in fact, threw down the gauntlet, saying that in the neighborhood he grew up in, if you had something to say about someone, you said it to their face.

McCain is on the hot seat tonight. He’s been called out. The topic will be on the table. Exactly how it will be raised – perhaps by Bob Schieffer – remains to be seen. And the manner in which each candidate will approach the topic is unknown. In light of this, I thought it might be interesting to look at a few of the factors that we do know about, and to discuss how they will likely come into play this evening.

The Obama campaign has run a surprisingly tight ship throughout the primary contest and general election. Their inner circle has been able to take advantage of their ability to be impenetrable, which is difficult for several reasons. The first is that almost every campaign is able to plant "spies" at some level of the opposition’s operation. And that combines with a second factor, which is the tendency of professional campaign operatives to access power by trading information. So it becomes progressively harder for the inner circle of a national campaign to maintain secrecy as a campaign moves towards Election Day.

The spread of information usually follows a path from the inner circle, or "tier one," to the second tier, then the third, which shares it in a select manner. Thus, for example, I can say with some confidence that John McCain is hoping that Bob Schieffer brings up the controversies associated with the republican campaign tactics, and that he can then say that they involve topics where citizens have "real concerns" about Obama’s past. McCain does not want to take ownership of the gutter tactics, but still hopes to exploit them.

Exactly how Barack Obama will respond is unknown. In fact, he may put the issue on the table, before Schieffer does. The only people who know for sure are his tier one inner circle, and they have not allowed that information to be spread. Anyone else who says they know what Obama has planned is kidding themselves. We can only speculate.

To appreciate how rare this is, it is interesting to consider the grand jury investigation of the Plame scandal. Grand jury investigations are by nature secretive, and the Plame one was especially so. Yet older DUers will recall that in the infamous "Plame Threads," I shared some information in 2004 that didn’t become part of the public record until the Scooter Libby trial. Also of interest is that some other internet sites reported some "information," which proved to be inaccurate. By no coincidence, this brings us to an important tactic of political campaigns: the spreading of information, misinformation, and disinformation.

"Information" comes in the form of facts. However, all political campaigns worth their salt know that a "fact" is not always equal to the truth. A fact can be used to distort the truth; a good example is McCain’s saying that Obama voted against funding the troops in Iraq. The truth is that both Obama and McCain each cast a vote that can be used to imply they opposed funding the troops, if the "fact" is taken out of context. But any time a campaign has to explain a previous action, they are on the defensive, or "losing."

"Misinformation" is the spreading of untruths, also know as lies. This tends to happen in discussions that involve one or more uninformed people put nonsense on the table. We see this daily on the cable and network news shows. The goal of misinformation is to communicate irrational and illogical messages with reality-challenged people. It is one of the greatest sources of frustration for those who are well-informed, because in discussions taking place anywhere from the work place to the Sunday news shows, utter falsehoods are promoted as having the same value as the truth.

"Disinformation" is a tactic that was originally most closely associated with intelligence operations in times of international conflict. It began to seep into domestic politics after WW2, and was the favored tactic of the Nixon campaign/administration. Disinformation was the language that was spoken by the Reagan and Bush1 administrations, as well. And no operation has engaged in such an outrageous war on truth as that of the Bush-Cheney administration. Again, it is no coincidence that several of the professional liars who were engaged in the disinformation campaign that brought our nation to war with Iraq – which included the Plame scandal – are involved in the John McCheney campaign. They have attempted to appeal to the ignorance of the uninformed and misinformed voters.

What can we expect tonight? I will not speculate on exactly what Barack Obama will say. But I suspect that his approach will be that of a good prosecutor, putting John McCain on the witness stand. McCain, of course, will attempt to squirm his way out of this, and deny the ownership of other people’s lies. But Obama will focus on forcing McCain to take personal responsibility for his own actions. John McCain will become a prisoner of his own campaign, as well as of his own personality.

In the first round, we saw McCain’s disrespect for Obama, when he refused to look at him. In the second round, we saw McCain’s strong dislike of Obama as an individual. As late as May, McCain believed that he could beat Obama in the general election, based on his belief that Obama lacked the experience needed to be President. Tonight, I think we will see the inner rage that defines John McCain exposed in ugly outbursts.

Enjoy the debate. I look forward to the discussions here on DU tonight.

Your friend,
H2O Man

You are spot on, as usual. mcPOW will want Schieffer to bring it up, to Obama. Obama can fashion his response to mcPOW, whether it comes from Bob or John.

My speculation is mcPOW will have a quip, tested and memorized at the ready. And, it will fall horribly flat. Everyone knows it is coming, but the beauty is that NO ONE knows what Obama's response will be. He has so much ammo, and can come from every direction. He can keep mcPOW squirming all night.

deliver prepared lines. Should he attempt a spontaneous answer, he is in trouble.

He'll be in trouble tonight, because his campaign has not been able to fully prepare him.

McCain not only cannot speak extemporaneously, his hands are tied as to what he can and should say. He, John McCain, at this late date, has no clear idea of what his campaign strategy might be. Because he is unsure, he is paralyzed to strike out on a path that forgoes other possibilities.

Campaigns live and breath with internal polling to decide what works and what does not work. Howver, you cannot craft a winning campaign based on responding only to the next news cycle. At some point you have to 'put down roots' and branch out in policy positions from there.

McCain does not have that anchor position from which to wage his campaign. Further, the attempt to 'hold' the social conservative, fundamentalist, and moderate wings of the Republican Party has served to alienate the all crucial independents and unaffiliated voters.

Listen ... that is the sound of a campaign in crisis. Campaign officials going on the personal attack 24/7 .... and the public pronoucements of long-time Republicans distancing themselves from Palin as unqualified and the McCain Campaign as a disaster.

So tonight, McCain goes into the fight of his life with no steady ground under his feet, and no hope of uniting the warring factions he must garner to win.

He will be lucky to remain standing when the 12th round bell ending the fight is rung.

In any competition, from public debate to basketball to boxing, a skilled person has the ability to think on their feet and to adjust. The person who can do neither always loses to the person who can.

Likewise, Sarah Palin is limited to only one gear in a public debate. Biden was able to shift gears, often from one question to the next, and the stark difference in ability resulted in the public recognizing that he won their debate.

The divides in the republican party right now are far, far greater than the corporate media dares to report. Many of their party elders view McCain & Palin as a ball & chain on congressional republican candidates (as well as at the state and local level). Their dissatisfaction has been communicated to the McCain campaign -- hence, that sound of crisis you note has a loud echo within their party. That puts pressure on McCain.

We'll see the result tonight.

The attempts to 'walk back' missteps by this McCain/Palin Campaign have been beyond unsuccessful, but worst of all ... laughable, which is the death knell of politics.

High level Republicans realize the kind of self-inflicted damage that has occurred here will have a legacy, from which they are trying to disassociate themselves.

But in some cases, the damage is too much to rehabilitate or even explain.

It reminds me of the plot line crisis that the TV Show "Dallas" encountered. They painted themselves into such a corner that there was no plausible avenue of escape --and in the end they surrendered, and created the out that the entire prior season was 'merely a dream.'

I expect the Republican Party to take that route once the election is over....

that McCain has made was his choice for VP. And since putting her on his ticket and declaring her to be his "soul mate," his campaign's missteps have become a form of political staggering about the Big Stage. For this reason, large segments of the republican party are trying to put distance between their congressional candidates and McCain-Palin. It is very entertaining to watch.

Those still waters have kept everyone guessing. He is an original and that very fact leaves everyone else at a disadvantage.

but I will be especially interested in watching how the fact that the 2 candidates will be seated at the same table will play out.

I think that McCain has been very unsuccessful thus far in controlling his emotional response to Obama. McCain appears to be losing his own personal battle of controlling his anger over the fact that Obama is poised to take what McCain feels is rightfully his.

We saw McCain's refusal to make eye contact in the first debate, his nervous pacing and dismissive use of the term "THAT one" in the second debate. I just have to wonder how McCain will respond when Obama is seated directly across the table from him, especially given the fact that the topic of Ayers and the dangerous incitement of McCain/Palin's supporters is almost certain to come up.

I've also heard that Schieffer will most likely allow more direct back and forth between the candidates than what we saw in the first 2 debates. We may indeed see more direct evidence tonight of the infamous McCain temper. People are already turning away from McCain due to the nasty attacks that have turned his campaign's rallies into angry mobs. Any display of anger on McCain's part will only further hurt his campaign with the moderates and independents that he needs to win.

will cause McCain discomfort, for the exact reasons you point out. He hasn't been able to get past his growing dislike for Obama.

Bizarre though it may seem, Reeps DO think that they have an entitlement to the Presidency. President Clinton has mentioned this as a prime source of Republican hatred towards him, that he had taken what they thought of as their White House from them.

It is also why they have no qualms about stealing it, as they have done for the last two cycles-how can one steal what is rightly one's own property? My suggestion is that they look at O.J.'s most recent trial for robbery, in which he presented that 'defense'.

McCain is a Reaganaut, which means he comes from the Hypothetical Wing of the Republican Party. He and those of his ilk can't handle facts that do not fit into their unproven theories, and so he lashes out in anger against those nasty facts, just as the Marxists did before him. "There SHOULD be an Imperial Presidency and a permanent Republican majority", they cry.The Constitution calls "Bullshit" on such specious claims, thank goodness, but that makes no difference to McCain.

Here's hoping that enough Americans vote for the rule of law, for the facts, for the reality-based community, for all things rational, this time around.

McCain really believed that he was entitled to be President, and that Obama wasn't. And that is the root of his growing dislike for Obama.

:kick:

McCain's corner should throw in the towel after tonight's introductions.

KO!

-Hoot

I don't think that referee Schieffer or the McCain corner can save old John tonight.

Not a boxing fan huh? :)

That's good! I like it. And we are only a little over 2 hours away.

In boxing, a TKO is a "technical knock out." There are five ways that a fight ends in a TKO: (1) the referee stops the fight; (2) a fighter's corner throws in the towel; (2) one fighter quits; and, in some states, (4) the "3 knockdown rule," when a fighter is decked three times in one round; or (5) a ringside doctor stops the fight. In each case, the fight has ended in a technical knockout.

A KO, (or "real" or "total" knockout) is when a fighter is knocked down, and is not able to get to his feet, standing straight, with his gloves raised, before the referee counts to 10.

In tonight's debate, we may very well witness variations of each of these six types of knockouts!

When a boxer is out on his feet.

First I ever heard of this Total Knock Out thingy :shrug:

-Hoot

provides the definitions of each of the five types of TKOs.

Just in case there's spontaneous McPantsCombustion.

-Hoot

part of the classic Ali poem, directed at "Smoking" Joe Frazier:

"I'll be a picking and a pokin'
pouring water on his smokin'."

IMO, this statement from your post sums it up exactly:

"McCain is on the hot seat tonight. He’s been called out."

There is NO good way to go from the position that McCain is in:

If McCan responds to the "call out" from Team Obama, then the truth comes out in reply and McCain looks like a LIAR if McCain does not respond to their "call out", then he looks like a COWARD.

As us in the law biz like to say: "There is NO good answer to that question!"

:hi:....a K&R on your thread!

this morning on MSNBC, when McCain spokesperson Nicole Wallace was bitterly accusing the Obama campaignof playing rough. She actually said, "It's like running against God." No statement better sums up the frustrations they feel about the position that McCain is in going into this debate.

...thanks for the info.

LOL, the "other side" bascially calls Obama a terrorist and does NOTHING when people at their rallies yell horrible things like, "Kill him...." and they think they are having it rough????

OMG....:rofl: What luncacy!

My normal brother had the opportunity to hang out in a number of Muhammad Ali's training camps. He got to know Ali well enough that when the Champ wanted to entertain a crowd, he'd pick my brother out, and start yelling that he was a spy for the other camp. Ali would pretend he was going to attack my brother, and Angelo Dundee would hold him back, while my brother would pretend he wanted to fight Ali, and Drew "Bundini" Brown would hold him back.

My brother was a very good trainer, and of course he loved having the opportunity to learn from Angelo, who ranks at the very top trainers in boxing history. And it was Dundee who came up with the word "stragedy," to describe the desperate tactics that a losing fighter would use when they knew they were close to being knocked out.

John McCain with employ a stragedy tonight, as he has about the same chance against Obama as my brother had against Ali. The line about "it's like fighting God" is an apt description, indeed.

Enjoy the debate. Goodness knows, we've waited a long time for this.

Last time was a blast.

I have a feeling McCain is going to end up looking pretty bad tonight. He's been goaded into going on the attack and it's going to backfire. He will look out of control in relation to Obamas very calm demeanor. I think tonight just might be the nail in his coffin.

Dare I hope?

Typically, a candidate in Obama's position would be urged to "play it safe" to avoid making any mistakes. That is, in part, what the McCain campaign is hoping for: a laid-back Barack Obama.

It's not going to happen.

A large part of the excitement this year is that we have the potential to go beyond merely replacing the republican politician -- we are witnessing a politician who plays the game differently than what we are used to, or what the republicans expected. People can differ on if it will translate into a more effective ability to lead after he is elected. But he has certainly changed the playing field in this election cycle, and tonight's debate is set on that new field ..... and so I think you will enjoy seeing how difficult it is for Senator McCain to try to dance around the facts tonight.

head stuck in a book in another room while my family watches it.

"John McCain will become a prisoner of his own campaign, as well as of his own personality." Excellent!

I think that is something that we were all aware of, and kind of discussing recently. This morning, when I was standing outside looking at the full moon, that line came to me. I have to admit, I liked it, too. Brought a smile to my old and wrinkled face.

Your posts are very educational for me and I always enjoy your insights.

I appreciate that!

Enjoy the debate tonight. I hope you'll be here on DU, to join in the discussions.

I simply cannot wait for the debate tonight. The debates have been so much fun that I've managed to get my 48 year old neighbor to not only become engaged in the debates, but to register to vote for the first time in her life. She has gone from apolitical to a highly informed voter in the course of 2 months!

It is so exciting to be alive in such a time that the American electorate is so highly engaged in the true decision making process of our future. This is our time and it feels wonderful. K&R.

The entire process has energized the public. A large part of that is a result of the uncanny political skills of Barack Obama. And another very large reason is because of good people like you, who have taken steps to "wake" others up.

Thank you.

Nicely done as always, Patrick.

to debate time. I like to think about what each candidate is doing now. My image of Barack Obama is that of a confident, relaxed man. But I suspect that McCain is a different picture now. Most people have noticed that he is not as capable of delivering his lines in the evening hours, as he is in the early- to mid-morning. The pace of the general election has taken a far greater toll on him, than the republican primary.

Maybe he is stretched out, like Cleveland "Big Cat" Williams in that last photo, trying to rest up.

From this thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=4242979

Great photos -- thanks!

I'm thinking that Barack Obama is going to inspire people here to kick it into a higher gear for the final weeks. We need to do this to insure large democratic victories across the board -- which is, of course, the republicans' worst nightmare. The White House, both houses of Congress, and state and local elections.

I keep getting calls even though I told them I am working for my CD candidate (the TV station came out to film us yesterday lol)

lurching around the stage like a drunk constipated penguin.

During that second debate, my older son just kept cracking up, saying that McCain's body language had to be creating a negative image among "undecided" voters.

After the debate, I said to a friend (who is a psychiatrist I used to work with) that I almost felt sorry for McCain, after watching stumble about on stage. "No," she answered, "we shouldn't feel sorry for him. He is a dangerous man."

I think he will be more uncomfortable sitting near Barack Obama.

this one may be the most interesting.

Sometimes when I read DU:GD-P, it seems that a lot of the good people here have limited experience in the area of campaign tactics. I'm not saying that in a bad way at all; if you haven't participated in a few tough elections, it would be unlikely that you would know some of the things that go on behind the scenes. So I hoped that by sharing a few of the ways these campaigns work would be of interest today.

is talking boxing talk, comparing Obama to Ali.