As a long-time DUer, I can hardly bear to click on GD04 anymore...

Two years ago, when I joined DU, I did so because I read through General Discussion and found lots of people who thought like me. There was hope here. There was optimism. Coming to DU made me feel better, in that there were other progressives here who saw a light at the end of the tunnel.

When I come to GD04 now, it turns my stomach to see so many progressives wringing their hands. This forum is dominated by despair, paranoia, and division. If I were a progressive Democrat looking for like-minded people today, I wouldn't join DU, because I wouldn't want to be a part of all of the negativity here.

I can't promise you that John Kerry will win the November 2 election. But I can promise you that what is going on in GD04 right now isn't helping anyone. If you want to help Kerry, then instead of sitting there complaining, get up and go volunteer at your local Dem headquarters. Give out some extra bumperstickers. Register people to vote. What good does it do to sit on an internet forum and denigrate our candiate--how does this affect the potential Democratic voters who are coming here hoping to find a home?

There is a pall on GD04 right now. I hope some of you get over it soon.

and belly up to MrScorpio's bar

:bounce:

I agree...and that is what I usually do. But I hate to see the GD04 forum being used to tear down our candidate. That's why I spoke up.

:-)

they are being manipulated and they are not taking any action to help

Instead they are taking action to crush hope

HOPE and HELP are on the way....

AND you are part of that mission. Get out there and do something should be our message to anyone of this helpless crys.

our local newspaper, attended meetings for Kerry, and passed out stickers, and I have contributed to Kerry and the DNC. I will continue to defend his views and oppose those of Bush.

You are doing what all of us should be doing. I know that I feel exhilaration and hope after I do a positive action for our candidate.

Applause for you! :bounce:

which seems to support what many of us are complaining about.

I'm confused as to which way you see this situation. I'm not trying
to be confrontational here but I can't see how to reconcile this
post with that article.

doing what I have said many times that they were doing. Turning a draft dodger into a patriot and a war hero into a pansy.

I posted it demonstrates the irony of this election cycle.

If you want to search the archives, feel free. Find one post of mine, after Kerry became our clear candidate, in which I condemn Kerry. Just one. I'll be waiting.

it's one thing to post articles like that or even post suggestions and criticisms at times. at least that article helped show why and how things happened and what we could do with that problem of the media.

but it's another to rant on about how kerry is going down and he better do this or that and how he isn't doing anything and he is going to lose, and if only we had candidate x as the nominee we would be ahead. especially when the same people continuously post the same types of threads over and over again.

the other part rests w/ the Kerry Campaign.

I think the article points this out.

Thay are working in tandem to keep the most disturbing posts high on the list. This just shows how desperate they are and how sure they are that smirk is going down. Their only hope to pull this out is to create fear and dissension amoung democrats. Don't let them play their head games on you.

you see, in their heart, they know smirk is a bogus, lying, cheating, useless pile of caca, and they know that Kerry is the man to bring our country out of the dark. However, being freepers, they cannot admit they have been lied to, conned and used. Sad, isn't it.

It seems to be the same old characters-- :grr:

There was just as much jubilation after our convention and many posters warned about the sag that was coming after this convention.

I think that much of the posting is because we all have so much at stake here and it is hard not to take each rise and fall of the waters to seriously. If we lose, we lose a lot more than the election.

Also, I think that the fact that we are not all lock step and can still raise differences and even extreme disagreement is a good thing. We have to be a party of fluid boundaries. We need to allow all who have a need to be heard a voice. That's what makes us the better party.

getting into the mix. (according to the mods) Some are genuine. Some are not. Yeah, things get a little like the Bad News Bears around here but voices of reason are more needed than ever.

...I can promise you that what is going on in GD04 right now isn't helping anyone.

Maybe it's helping the people writing the negative posts by letting them get a little of their frustration out. I know I've made my own "hand-wringing" posts in my short time here. Although I agree it gets depressing after a while, which is why I've been primarily posting in the lounge.

not expressing what we think or what we see as current flaws so far in strategy is hurting the campaign? Would it be more helpful to say everything is going swimmingly? What kind of campaign doesn't want to know what you have to say except praise of their strategy? I plan to work my tail off for this campaign this fall and I think telling all of us to just be quiet except for praise of the strategy is ridiculous.

I use the time I would have wasted reading anti Kerry
posts volunteering at my local Dem office.

Let me say "THANK YOU"--You are making a difference! :toast:

this morning to see if anything positive was happening here. The top post in the Lobby was this post. I read it and am posting my response here. After I click the 'Post Message' button below, I will go outside and do some yard work.

I will be hoping that those who would support a person of obvious low moral character and homicidal tendencies will see that his paranoid view of the world is not one that they want to support. Just because a person of power supports a particular organization or group, doesn't mean that that person has the best interests of those organizations at heart - let's hope people can see through the current fog and use reason to get through this. We are truly faced with a wolf in sheep's clothing here. The one claiming to be "more good" is anything but that.

All of those infecting this board with negativity are falling prey to the wolf's trickery - don't open the door to this evil.

:)

Damn your kind!

If enough of us do this, eventually they will get tired of ranting to themselves and skulk away in defeat. If you'll notice, they already are mostly talking amongst themselves.

Things were quite positive in Campaign 2004 prior to the RNC; coincidentally, now that it is over, things are starting to look up again around here.

Use them prodigiously, evilDUers.

Group A trolls=Dean shoulda been the candidate.
Group B trolls=the polls.
Group C trolls="You should see this in this RW sleazebag source--it'll ruin us!"

You get the idea--now get the NAMES.

Edit: painted with a broad brush. I'm just trying to say that it isn't hard to tell when the message is constructive, yet critical, as opposed to simply critical.

There are plently of Freeper moles on DU, some of these posts could be them, posing as Democrats who are wringing their hands...or otherwise tearing down and bashing Kerry.

We'd be fools to think we do not have infiltrators in our midst.

Having said THAT...I AM worried and paranoid, because this race is a lot closer than I would like it to be...and in light of the last four years, it is a lot closer than it ought to be...that is, if anyone out there has been paying attention!!

So I worry and wring my hands, too. But that isn't all...

I am a Volunteer Deputy Voter Registrar, and my weekends lately have been spent at events locally, sitting behind a table, registering voters. I have been strategically picking my locations that I am far more likely to be registering Democrats.

In Texas, one does not declare Party at registration, so I don't REALLY know. And I am forbidden by law to refuse to register anyone, or to fail to turn in the forms anyone has filled out. Such actions would be a felony.

Someone could come up to my table, spit in my face, tell me Bush is wonderful, and they are going to vote for him...and then ask me to register them...and I must do so. Furthermore, I must also turn in that registration. But, I have registered far more people that have made comments indicative that they are Democrats, while I was registering them...and keeping my official stance of non-partisanship has been rather difficult, but it is the officiall stand I have to take when I am registering voters.

So far, I've registered 56 new voters in three weeks, and I have done much office work for my county's Democratic Party Campaign. addidtionally, I am signed up with my Party Precinct Chair, to do some block walking in the near future, and am still looking to get my hands on some out-of-state phone lists, and will be calling out-of-state voters from my cell phone, from home, on weekends, taking advantage of my free unlimited long distance, and free unlimited nights and weekends.

All this, I am doing from Texas...a state well nigh certain to go RED in 2004. Why am I beating myself up in a lost cause, you might ask?? Well, there are local races to win, House races to win...and if we can embarrass Bush, by making Texas closer than they THINK it will be, I will be proud to have been even a small part of that.

No,I can't guarantee Kerry will win, either, and this causes me to worry sometimes, too. the closeness of the race makes it quite theoretically possible to pull off another "just enough" cheat to give Bush a win...and this is my greatest fear. four more years of Bush would be intolerable!

BUT...having said all that...and HERE'S THE MAIN POINT...if Bush DOES win...the only way I will be able to live with myself the next four years will be if I can go down knowing I did EVERYTHING IN MY POWER, EVERYTHING I COULD LEGALLY DO...to prevent that from happening!

It helps me keep my sanity in this nail-biting election season to know I'm doing ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING I CAN to bring Bush down!!

To that end, I even went to an "End Of An Error" party on Thursday night last week, where we watched the RNC, and Bush's speech. Every time Bush told a lie (which is basically whenever his lips were moving) we all yelled "Bush It" at the screen. When the conventioneers began chanting "Four More Years" I started the chant on our end..."TWO MORE MONTHS!! TWO MORE MONTHS!!" And, I and many others yelled out sarcastic responses to other things Bush said...for example, when he began to talk about "leaving no child behind," I yelled out, "Right, Bush...you WON'T leave any child behind...you will make sure they ALL get to Baghdad!!"

Anyway, what I DIDN'T know, at the time...a local news station, Channel 8, which is a 24-hour local news station in Austin, where I live...was filming at our event...and the next day, two of my co-workers came up to me to tell me they'd seen me on TV and to ask me what it was about. Apparently, the news people had focussed in on me for 15 to 20 seconds while I incited the crowd with my chants and sarcastic remarks!

As if anyone I work with had any doubts about where I stood before...I only got FOUR pro-Democrat bumper stickers on my car already, along with a number of anti-Bush stickers...

Now, here's my fianl MAIN POINT...and this goes directly to the starter of this thread...
JUST BECAUSE SOMEONE IS HERE, POSTING AND WRINGING THEIR HANDS IN DISMAY, PARANOIA, AND FEAR...DO NOT ASSUME THEY ARE NOT OUT THERE BUSTING THEIR ASS EVERY BIT AS HARD AS I AM, TO DEFEAT BUSH!!

Just because they are here, wringing their hands in frustration, fear, worrying, etc...do not assume that posting here is all they are doing!! I myself, am a worrywort, and have been know to post time to time in the GD2004 forum, in the very manner disparaged by the originator of this thread. But posting here is FAR from all I am doing!! And many others posting in the same vein...they, too, may well be busting their ass to get Bush out!

The originator, in all honesty, is exhorting these posters to get out, volunteer, bust ass...just like I am doing. And I applaud that, but have to also ask the originator...are YOU practicing what you preach?? Are you WALKING what you talk?? Or are you just talking??

One could assume by your post that you are doing nothing but posting here the stuff that is frustrating you. I don't make that assumption, personally...but it would be a fair question to ask you! Especially in light of YOUR assumption that the paranoid people, the worry-filled people who are posting here are doing nothing but posting here.

So how about it?? ARE you doing the very things you suggest for others?? And, perhaps, others are already doing the things you suggest...but time and again, need to unload, get their worries and fears off their chests (I know I sure do) and when they need that, they come here to post, hoping others will understand their fear, desperation, worry, paranoia....

Hey, this is a tough election going on...and many of us here really feel as if our VERY LIVES are riding on it!! so consider those possibilities, before you accuse others of doing nothing but sitting behind there computer screens and whining...ok?

*Registered 17 voters in Mississippi last week.
*Walked my hometown, going door to door, handing out yard signs, buttons, tees, and bumperstickers that I bought from the Kerry shop and received at the Dem headquarters in the town where I work after I made a substantial donation to their grassroots effort.
*Am on the Democratic executive commitee and am precinct chair in my home town. We meet twice a month.
*Wear my Kerry shirt everywhere I go. When I stop at a convenience store, and someone asks, "Where'd you get that shirt?" I take them out to my car, pop the trunk, and give them Kerry gear.
*Donate money to the Kerry campaign, and other Democratic or liberal leaning groups.
*Will help host and attend a Women for Kerry party next week.
*Will be making calls during the last week of the election reminding voters to get out and vote, to take a friend.
*My car, too, is plastered with Democratic and Kerry stickers.

There is more, but let me just say that I serve in a position in which I was appointed by a major state official.

I don't want to engage in a pissing contest over who is the best Democrat. But I hope that the hand-wringers who seem to be on this forum day in and day out are actually getting off of their asses like you and me and making a REAL difference.

Kudos to you for the work you do. :toast:

I didn't mean for you to take what I said as an attack or as an accusation, I just raised the legitimate question of whether you were actually DOING what you suggest for others to do.

there sems an awful lot of peoplewilling to tell OTHERS what to do...but then they do not do those things themselves, and I merely wished to determine if you were one of THOSE...I feel it was a legitimate question, and I apologize if any offense was taken!

BUT, you need to know that those whose posts you are disparaging...may be also working just as hard as you and I are...and may need, from time to time, to come here and vert their worries, frustrations, and fear.

Take care!!

that I always feel HIGH after doing door-to-door or other forms of activism. I see that the public is ready for a change, even in Mississippi. So it's disappointing to come to DU and lose that feeling just by clicking on GD04.

No, I didn't take offense. I am not telling others what to do or how to think. I guess I am a pollyanna, in that the optimism I see away from DU isn't reflected in the posts at DU.

Like you, I want Mississippi to send the message that it won't be as easy a win as Bush would like. In Mississippi, Gov. Haley Barbour (former RNC chair and major Bush friend) just cut over 65,000 people off of Medicaid. Those people vote. They have families. Barbour didn't even win election by 65,000 votes. I am doing all I can to put the fear of God into Bush (seeing as how God seems to be the only thing Bush fears :-) by making Mississippi a LOT closer than he and his ilk would ever have envisioned ). I also want a Democratic governor in 2007.

I do understand that some people who are earnestly working for the Democratic party do voice their displeasure from time to time. What my OP refers to, however, is the multiple posts by the same "gloom and doomers" who seem to be doing nothing but sitting and posting on this forum.

Again, keep up the good work you do. Getting out the vote will win this election. :toast:

I get that same "high" knowing I am doing everything I can to beat bush...but then, I see the national polls, showing the election closer than I would like...and even showing bush ahead somewhat, and it gets me worried, frightful...and wondering if all I am doing will amount to no impact, and Bush may win...and that deflates me, makes me worried, frustrated, paranoid, afraid...
Perhaps others making these posting are feeling the same things I am, and may need to vent once in a while to keep from going crazy!
I am NOT a Pollyanna, I am NOT an optimist, I never could be. I've been the eternal cynic and pessimist. Just the way I'm hard-wired.

Some of us are hard-wired at...or work hard at being...Polyannas and optimists...others, like me, are cynics and pessimists...and we need to welcome people to dump thier negative feelings, their fears...so that they do not eat them alive, and keep them from maybe doing the good work, such as you and I are doing!

I know, weighed down with a heavy fear, paranoia, worry level, cynicism, and pessimism, I could not do the work I do. And so I need to periodically "download" all that stuff, and this seems a good place to do it...where like-minded people will understand, and empathize with the very real fear I am feeling at this time.

I know it may be hard for you, as a self-admitted Pollyanna...to be seeing what you percieve as "negativity" but realize that for us...it is just as hard to see our concerns, worries, fears, and frustrations addressed in a manner that makes it appear that they are not legitimate or welcomed!

One of the things that makes DU, and this country, great...is that we do not HAVE to agree on everything...and we respect the opinions, fears, frustrations, opinions, and voices of others who may not share our view. At least that is how it used to be, and I'd sure like to get back to that here on good old DU.

Yeah, some people here make me insane, too!

As an early Edwards, later Dean, and still later, a re-defection back to Edwards...supporter...the Kerry and Kucinich people drove ME nuts!! And I must say, regrettably, on more than one occasion...I have "let them have it!" I'm still not the world's most excited Kerry got the nomination...he wasn't my candidate of choice. However, he is the nominee...the only one with a chance in hell of getting Bush out...and at least my guy DID get the VP slot...so, all told, I could be feeling a lot worse about things.

There are, however, a lot of elements of our party feeling left out in the cold at the moment, by the prospect of a Kerry/Edwards ticket...particularly the hard-core Dean and Kucinich folks. We need to be making them feel welcome and included...and disparaging their posts, and making them feel their posts are not welcome...is NOT the way to make them feel wanted...and is counter-productive to what you and I and thousands of others like us across this great land are trying to achieve. so please show patience to those who are venting frustration. This is going to be a very emotional, very nail-biting, and close election...the kind that puts everyone's nerves on edge, especially since we ALL know how critical this election is to the future of our nation. so I cousel you and the rest of us to patience, and allow these people to vent their worries, fears, frustrations...and empathize with them...and try to respond to those posts with reasons WHY they should support a Kerry/Edwards ticket...and why it is so important...rather than driving them away by disparaging what they feel to be legitimate concerns, fears, and frustrations.

Peace!

I also live in Texas. I handed out voter registration at my garage sale yesterday, and will be working a voter registration at the library next Saturday (Mineral Wells).

The following weekend I will go to Fort Worth/Dallas area and do the knock on doors thing. Yes, it will be worth it. While in my dreams I can see Texas going to Kerry, I admit that is probably only a dream. However, it would be awesome to force smirk to use up campaign time and funds in TEXAS. Damn, what would that say to the rest of the world.

everything their candidate does and stay positive! Let's turn off our minds and not question our observations. Hey, it's working for them!

Thanks for brining this up. I think you're onto something.

respond to you.

Yeah, just go be like Republicans. :eyes:

:evilgrin:

just went POOF!

"ht" and "ignore."

I think they are truly gifts of the gods, so to speak!

Of course, not all of us are journalists. We aren't all objective. I'm recent, and came here out of desparation. And I'm not as experienced as most here. But I'll be damned if I'm going back to my solitude. I am probably one of those negative people you mention. We have to all get along.

Now that was a fight to behold...

I came here for discussion of ideas, friendly debate, tolerant like-minded liberal community but everyone else seems to want to worship politicians over ideas, accuse anyone who disagrees as a repub, and hold a kumbaya-feel-good-sheep fest as if it would have any affect whatsoever in the outcome of the election.

It is obvious that too many have invested every ounce of emotion, all their hopes and dreams and neurotic energy into this election which is severly dangerous to mental health.

Even if all 40,000 people on DU held hands in rose-colored cheerleading fantasy of a Kerry victory it would not make a difference at all in reality so someone explain to me the desire to control everyone's behavior.

Here's my post from late last night:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=749218

and compared to that, this is NOTHIN'.

This too shall pass, count on it.

I am much tamer now. :evilgrin:

we ARE..

Here's to the brave Mods!

:toast:

It's okay; check out AtA this morning...

Plus, I am neutral on the thanks-mods thing, and I will leave it at that.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

That is all.

many of the same arguments re: strategy that are being made now were also being made then-

Unfortunately, many of the same posters who called that shot are once again in the same position- hoping, praying and imploring the Democrats to go on the offensive and hit back and stop legitimizing Republican policies and accusations.

Some of also wish that the Kerry campaign had the guts to nationalize the campaign, rather than essentially ceding Congress (and state legislatures, that can ride coattails too). I think you see some of the frustration about that reflected in the recent buyers' remorse about Dean not having been the nominee.

:ahhhhhh: :smoke: :evilgrin: Great dose of ass-kicking common sense!

I know all the crap has driven me away lately... but if I quit the chickenlittle terraists win! ;-)

:party: be there.

For many, Nov 3. is just the beginning.

When Kerry's in office, we'll STILL have an occupying army in Iraq. Kerry has not announced any plans for getting us out of there.

We still won't have a single-payer, universal health care system, like the rest of the industrialized world. It's by far the simplest, cheapest plan there is to deliver quality healthcare to EVERYBODY.

We'll still be fighting a useless "war on drugs", which is little more than a privatized war against poor people in South America.

And we'll still have a Pentagon that cannot account for over $1 TRILLION worth of materiel and funds.

John Kerry has the potential to be a truly GREAT president. Just like JFK and LBJ. However, they didn't become "great" on their own. Their bold steps were only possible because the PEOPLE supported them on the way there.

Kennedy was never a strong advocate for civil rights. He was even reluctant (at first) to call out the Guard in Alabama to integrate the schools. However, we saw the support for it from the people, and he did the right thing-- and he's remembered as a hero by the African-American community for it, too.

Same with LBJ. He was never seen as a civil rights champion, or a strong voice against poverty. But he saw that social programs could make a HUGE difference to many poor people, so he launched the War on Poverty. His "war" cut the poverty rate IN HALF in only a few short years. If not for Vietnam, LBJ would be remembered as one of the greatest presidents of all time, IMHO.

I've never been a huge fan of John Kerry, and was not very happy with his nomination as our candidate. However, I'm still supporting him (with my time and money), and will continue to do so. Why?

Because great presidents are not "born". They are made by the people who support them. And John Kerry has the potential to be a GREAT President!!!!

:-)

We're not efficient. We don't speak w/one voice, ever. In this way we're different than repubs, who goosestep naturally. It's not pretty but it is predictable.

Gyre

to learn logical thinking. :shrug:

A response I left on this thread was erased for reasons beyond my understanding. I was agreeing to the negativity present on this board and it was deleted yet those repetitve and baseless posts bashing Kerry are allowed to fester.

I don't think this phenomenon is confined to GD04. Seems to be strewn throughout the board. There are definitely more freepers than ever before which makes navigating the board more cumbersome and less enjoyable.

But I find the general tenor amongst most progressives that I know to be one of sheer exasperation and frustration. And, I ask you with all sincereity, can you really blame them? I've done everything within my power, from donate money, to local meet ups, to registering voters, and, after all's said and done, I'm STILL left with a lingering doom type feeling at the fate of this country. To me the most damning indictment of all might be that this race is as close as it is! Half of the American people don't care enough to vote, half that do think BUSH IS DOING JUST A SUPERB JOB. It's worrisome, to say the least that we should have to work as hard as we do to get the truth out there. A damning endicment of the current state of electoral politics and the electorate, writ large.

I ask you, what is there NOT to be depressed about?

This is from one long-time DUer (Spring '02)to another....

:thumbsup:

to point out that his campaign is in the weeds?

I was in the precinct caucuses in February being told that Kerry was the "most electable".

I'd like to see some more of that.

I'd like to see less KAing of John McCain. How the choice of Edwards came to be a hard one is still a mystery to me.

The war in Iraq is a turkey. I don't want the candidate telling me it isn't.

This election is about war, and how long we're going to be in one.

Pretending it is something different is a fool's game.