Cubans go to Mexico to dodge U.S. sea patrols

Source: AP

ISLA MUJERES, Mexico - On the night Lazaro Mendez got an alert that his boat had been stolen from the Florida Keys, he was swept up in a new chapter of the Cuban boat people drama.

Grabbing a laptop computer that tracked the fishing boat's position by satellite, he watched as it stopped for refueling at sea, then shot off toward Cuba — the latest in a swarm of thefts of Florida boats prized by smugglers for their speed.

Mendez, a Cuban-American and a popular Miami radio personality known as "DJ Laz," set out to get his boat back, succeeded, and even came face to face with the men who stole it. But it was just the tiniest of setbacks for a human-trafficking industry that is thriving off the Cuban exodus.....


Read more: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27256207/

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Why would so many want to leave? Oh that's right, the Cuban penal code.

http://www.ruleoflawandcuba.fsu.edu/law-penal-code.cfm

you go blaming the embargo. Last I checked, there was no wording in the embargo that made it illegal for Cubans to travel the island. That's in the penal code.

penal codes there are on our books throughout our country, and, which are just as ridiculous or more ridiculous? You know in Texas it is illegal to buy, sell or posses a dildo. But when some solo babe or lesbian couple decides to move away from Texas to California because they can't find an adequate means to provide a living for themselves. Does the fact that dildos are illegal in Texas mean they are fleeing Texas because they are sexually oppressed? Or is it the more obvious that they are moving because of their personal economic circumstances?

It would appear that you would accuse to the former rather than to the later reason.

Laws specifically designed to keep people from fleeing are quite a different matter. Also, Texas has a flurry of adult oriented stores in very public locations so it would seem that that law is not enforced particular well. I would love to see it on the books though.

n/t

you show us a link to that texas law.

If you did a basic translation of Cuban Law #88, it quite clearly is meant to defend its society against the Helms-Burton Law, and there are harsh penalties for any Cuban that knowingly becomes an accessory to Helms-Burton, in any way.

Theoretically, if you are a Cuban-American politician living in the USA, one who has supported Helms-Burton in some way or another, including involvement in the rightwing agenda of the Cuban-American National Foundation, and suppose you travel to Cuba to visit relatives, it would appear that you would be liable for arrest and imprisonment for violation of Law #88. It doesn't make a difference if you are a US citizen, Cuban law is applied to Cuban citizens whether they live in Cuba or not.

This is a reasonable reaction against the intent of Helms-Burton, and it amounts to a form of state-sponsored terrorism against Cuba.

I am sure that Cuba knows who these people are, if they are foolish enough to visit the island. And Cuba would be perfectly right to imprison them.

So if you as much say anything in support of the Helms-Burton Law in Cuba, I would hope the offending Cuban get the maximum sentence applicable under Cuban law.

There are a lot of Cuban laws which might seem sever or unjust from our point of view, but these laws were made to defend the socialist republic against aggression from the US. I support the Republic of Cuba and its right to live independently and free from US hostilities.

I am a little disturbed by this sentence.

"So if you as much say anything in support of the Helms-Burton Law in Cuba, I would hope the offending Cuban get the maximum sentence applicable under Cuban law."

"I support the objectives of jihad and Islamic terrorism to destroy the US government. I will help the Taliban to attack the USA."

I would also be "a little disturbed" by these sentences.

Helms-Burton is nothing less than an act of state-sponsored terrorism against Cuba, one that has been legally sanctioned by the US rightwing. If you go to Cuba and say you are there to support the objectives of Helms-Burton, and you have a history of rightwing associations that are hostile to Cuba, I would not be surprised if you are arrested and spend 6 months to a year in a Cuban prison. I would not at all pity you for it.

It would be so fine if all the Cuba-haters would just learn about the real Cuba and not rely on BS from American rags.

I think you should be able to say that in the U.S. Actually acting on it is another matter. I just can't believe you are against any speech.

Well, the key word I'm reading from you is "should", which implies that you understand that here in the USA, it is illegal to say "Hi, Jack!" on an airplane, even if it was meant to be a joke to laugh at.

Or to say, "Fire", in a crowded movie theatre.

The fact that you recognized that there are limitations to free speech in the USA, this shows to me a rather hypocritical attitude, a double-standard, something that you apply to Cuba first, rather than admit we first need a lot of work to do here in the USA, to expand the boundaries of free speech here in the USA, before attempting to apply these standards to other countries. Why single out Cuba?

I am not against free speech as it is permitted in our Bill of Rights in the USA, but I recognize that Cuba is a different matter entirely, it has been subject to non-stop progaganda, terrorist threats and actual terrorist attacks for almost half a century, often condoned, financed and planned from within the secure boundaries of the USA, from the highest levels of our government.

It is the US government that pushed Cuba to stop illegal exit from Cuba to the US.

In the latest accords the US declared that a mass exodus would be 'tantamount to an invasion of the US - a declaration of war by Cuba against the US'. So if Cuba allows an unlimited number of Cubans to illegally travel to the US they are in great danger of a drastic response from Bushco.


A good question is - why don't they get a legal immigration visa to come to the US. The US government provides over 20,000 immigration visas per year to Cuba (the greatest number of any other country).


Maybe Cubans are coming here for many of the same reasons that migrants from all over the caribbean come to the US.

They come for jobs. They come for that "American dream". They come to earn better wages (hopefully) so they can send money back to their families, just like so many other immigrants do.

Cubans have a special immigration status in the US when they get to the US illegally. Wet Foot/ Dry Foot and the US's Cuban Adjustment Act allow Cuban illegal immigrants to be granted residency status instantly, without any hearing if they make it to the US. That means instant work visa, instant residency visa, instant access to Social Security, welfare, food stamps, section 8 taxpayer assisted housing, and more.

All without ANY background check on any potential criminal record (which is a prohibition for immigration to the US for all others). Cubans who apply for a LEGAL immigration visa are subject to a criminal background check done by the US interests section in Cuba.

For those who have failed to qualify for a legal US immigration visa, there is always the illegal avenues - for Cubans only.

No other immigrant group is offered such perks, but yet more people pour into the US from other Latin America and Caribbean countries than Cubans, and they get no special perks.

It is you and your uninformed ilk who constantly repeat over and over "if Cuba is such a paradise... ", without any context or contrast with conditions in other countries.

A good question to ask would be: Why does the US refuse travel visa requests by Cubans who want to visit their families in the US?


First the US tries to impoverish Cubans in Cuba and then RWnuts turn around and exclaim that Cubans want to leave Cuba because of Castro's bad economic conditions.

Impoverishing the island is just the very purpose of the US sanctions on Cuba.


On edit: exit visas are required by a number of countries, Mexico and Israel (for some citizens) included. Antigua & Barbuda, Barbados, Dominica, Grenada, Guyana, Jamaica, St. Kitts & Nevis, St. Lucia, St. Vincent & the Grenadines and Trinidad & Tobago all did until 2006.

poor Fidel(deceased) to do this. And why does it bar them from going anywhere? Shouldn't the law just be focused on the U.S. And finally, you do realize that this law went into effect well before Bushler took office. Also, you may want to read the whole document(penal code). There are some doozies in there.

I know you just want to grind your anti Cuba ax, so, no matter what, you'll remain adamant in your rather limited experience based opinions on Cuba.


Cuba-U.S. Migration Accord
http://www.state.gov/www/regions/wha/cuba/fs_000828_migration_accord.html

And of course no travel is ever approved. You seemed to dance around my questions. The link you provided looks like a very even handed policy for both the US and Cuba. I would expect nothing less from Big Dog's administration.

Cubans travel all over the damned place if they can afford it.

Cubans used to come to Miami to visit their families and then go home after 2 weeks until the Bush admin put a stop to granting tourist visas to Cubans (axis of evil, and that nonsense).

There are significant Cuban communities in Canada, France, Netherlands, England, Spain, and over much of the Latin Americas. They all travel back and forth, and have their families in Cuba come for regular visits. The limitation on travel is money.

If you had done some observant world travel then you would know this.


It's pretty easy to fool uniformed Americans on the actual conditions in Cuba - because it is the US government that forbids Americans from traveling to Cuba (without a special exit visa from US OFAC).

you provide no evidence. The last evidence you provided was easily shot down by just reading it. Please supply some actual links to some hard data. I worked for a German company with a large office in Canada for many years. The Canadians all traveled to Cuba semi-regularly and gave a balanced account of the country. Neither paradise or horror. You seem to laud it just a bit too much, but I am not sure to what end.

No.

I just don't bash Cuba.

Why?

I've been there. A bunch of times.

Have you?

We can play the I've been there game all day long. I've been to Venezuela before and many haven't, but I don't think that disqualifies everyone from voicing an opinion. When you are ready to supply those links let me know.

Posted by WriteDown--> "And of course no travel is ever approved."

Prove your accusation.





Oops. I guess that you'll have to come up with yet another canard to sling, in desperate hopes of getting something to stick in your anti Cuba crusade.

Really the only way to understand the Cuban reality is to travel there yourself. I've been to Havana 2 times in the last five years.

It requires more planning and more courage to visit Cuba (illegally). Venezuela is legal to travel there.

FYI, certain occupations in Cuba will delay or prohibit departure from the island. Medical specialists, doctors, even biologists will have to quit their job and wait for a minimum of 5 years before they can legally travel on a visa outside of Cuba. It's to help protect the state-sponsored investment in its intellectual assets. Cubans receive free education at all levels, and they have top-quality graduates in medical fields.

I don't see a problem with this policy. It's the dangerous attempts at crossing the Florida Straights that are causing more problems, and this has been encouraged by US government policy. If relations between the 2 countries were normalized, I think a lot of positive changes would happen on both sides. Nothing good will happen as long as the US makes laws like Helms-Burton.

I should stop believing my lying eyes too. :eyes:

anyone with the money to leave Cuba can't unless they quit their jobs and wait 5 years before they may be able to travel outside of Cuba? You don't see this as a problem?

I'll give you a counter example. In the US, you are welcome to go to college and graduate school(or med school) on a full ride ROTC scholarship. You are required to serve in the military for as many years as you attend school. You are neither prevented from traveling during school or during your military stint. You are welcome to also emigrate to the country of your choosing after you have served.

Odd that you cite the top graduates in Cuba's medical fields. Before Fidel died, he traveled post-haste to Spain for treatment. Seems like they wouldn't have risked a dangerous international trip unless their was no available treatment in Cuba.

Yet another canard by you. Why? It is so easy to debunk this myth simply using google, but yet you post it - again.

A well reputed Spanish specialist in internal medicine (Dr. Garcia Sabrido) did go to Cuba to render his opinions on treatment for Mr Castro's condition, but Mr Castro didn't go to Spain for treatment. That was a RW rumor, debunked here on DU around the time that Cuba-phobes were spreading it here.




Jeez, man.

At some point readers of these threads, where the Cuba-phobes sling one debunked canard after another, are going to figure out that the anti Cuba mud slingers are not interested in facts at all - bashing Cuba is their objective, and slinging BS hoping that the uninformed will buy into their dark fantasies of the evil island borderlines on spamming DU with RW swill.

Got it backwards, but does not negate the point that Cuban medical personnel were not qualified to diagnose him. Maybe they were too depressed with their inability to travel outside of Cuba.

To think that top specialists who reside in their respective homelands are not called upon by other specialists to render a second opinion on a treatment that they specialize in is infantile. Puerile, at best.

Your objective is clear, WD, and it has nothing to do with real discussion, discovery of truth, nor facts.

For the life of me, I can't understand why you would post your previously debunked drivel again and again and again here on DU. It is indeed spam.

are some of the best in the world. Guess they are just a little less than the best. Maybe they need to all be required to take Prozac to keep their moods elevated to escape the depression of not being allowed to travel internationally. May help their work.

Duh.

Did you actually read the link I posted? There was an international conference of surgeons meeting in Havana. Professionals of all ilk collaborate with each other at locations all over the world, because not everyone makes the same discoveries and refinements of techniques at the same time.

The only place that Cuban professionals are prevented from going for conferences is the USA, because Bushco won't grant them entry visas. Numerous stories have been posted on DU on that very subject over the years.

Your infantile mudslinging isn't working.

Grow up.

attend a conference and and being monitored while there is a tad bit different from actually traveling freely somewhere. Next you'll be telling me that sports stars are able to travel freely from Cuba. Ever hear the term rose-colored glasses?

Got it backwards, but does not negate the point that Cuban medical personnel were not qualified to diagnose him. Maybe they were too depressed with their inability to travel outside of Cuba.

Post away, oh scion of Condoleeza Rice.

So, Fidel is deceased? WOW! I will surely turn to you and your crystal ball to get all my Cuban news from now on! :sarcasm:

A recent Da Silva visit...








Certain posters, with a peculiar anti Cuba bent, insist that Fidel Castro is dead, and that the secret inner workings of the gov of the evil island are waiting for the "right time" to announce that he has died. Part of the cover up is that the announcement of Fidel's death will be that he has died ... wait ... for ... it ... while doing some research on an important project, either that or ... wait for it ... wait ... IN HIS SLEEP!

:eyes:

Shrewd, eh? (He's 82 yrs old).

Once again, photos where the date cannot be confirmed and he always seems to be wearing the same outfits. Very strange. When was the last time he was actually seen live by anyone like waiving from a balcony or getting into a car? It will soon be announced that he died in his sleep or he died working on some great project for the Cuban people. Elvis is moer likely to be alive.

I am in Mexico. If he were, it would be all over the place, despite anyone's attempt to hide it.

You may want to read up a little bit on the way laws work in Latin America. Just because there's a law doesn't mean said law is enforced or even acknowledged. I am absolutely not saying this is the case in Cuba, as it is not my area of specialization and I tend to stay away from the mess the US created there more than 100 years ago. But, the whole of Latin America is filled with legal code that is positively hysterical in its idiocy and laxity.

He killed them dead. How he slept at night and lived with himself while awake I'll never know.

No embargo needed with that guy.

We have Cuban friends here in Sayulita. Oscar´s brother came here illegally two months ago and the coastline is well guarded. He wound up getting caught but he had money and relatives living here so they let him stay. Three in the group he came with left in handcuffs.

MEXICO CITY : Cuban Foreign Minister Felipe Perez Roque said on Sunday that Mexico has agreed to return Cuban migrants who arrive without documents, a move that may threaten the main exit route for Cubans

http://www.topix.com/forum/news/immigration/T6VQC9VC4Q7U53RM4


? Dos faced Mexicans ?

Criminal records, maybe?

You think that undocumented aliens should just be granted entry, willy nilly?

Why should Mexico accept these people without documents affirming their identity?

If they have a legitimate claim to political asylum then Mexico will give them a hearing (just as the US will, if they are intercepted at sea by the USCG).

As the article mentions, this is the pathway to the USA.

Why should the US accept these people without documents affirming their identity? What about a criminal background check done by the US government?

This is just the reason many are using this route - because the US's Cuban Adjustment Act bypasses any and all barriers that any other migrant to the US has.

Most of these Cubans come to my hometown, Miami, and I really don't think that Miami needs more criminals and nefarious operators that we have here already.

What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

and bring the illegally received revenue back to Mexico. LOL

But what do you think will happen to the Cuban "migrants" that are sent back to Cuba after they illegally left the island?

slap on the wrist ?

30 days in the cooler ?

Lose the free medical and dental insurance ?

Here's what the N.Y. Times journalist, Ann Louise Bardach wrote in one of her books concerning Cuba and South Florida, and the kinds of Cubans who travel BACK AND FORTH across the stretch between the two places:

In Cuba, one used to be either a revolucionario or a contrarevolucionario, while those who decided to leave were gusanos (worms) or escoria (scum). In Miami, the rhetoric has also been harsh. Exiles who do not endorse a confrontational policy with Cuba, seeking instead a negotiated settlement, have often been excoriated as traidores (traitors) and sometimes espías (spies). Cubans, notably cultural stars, who visit Miami but choose to return to their homeland have been routinely denounced. One either defects or is repudiated.

But there has been a slow but steady shift in the last decade-a nod to the clear majority of Cubans en exilio and on the island who crave family reunification. Since 1978, more than one million airline tickets have been sold for flights from Miami to Havana. Faced with the brisk and continuous traffic between Miami and Havana, hard-liners on both sides have opted to deny the new reality. Anomalies such as the phenomenon of reverse balseros, Cubans who, unable to adapt to the pressures and bustle of entrepreneurial Miami, return to the island, or gusañeros, expatriots who send a portion of their earnings home in exchange for unfettered travel back and forth to Cuba (the term is a curious Cuban hybrid of gusano and compañero, or comrade), are unacknowledged by both sides, as are those who live in semi-exilio, returning home to Cuba for long holidays.

Page XVIII
Preface
Cuba Confidential
Love and Vengeance
In Miami and Havana

Copyright© 2002 by
Ann Louise Bardach

Gotta love the Cuba experts here, slinging mud from all angles. Except that they seem to sling only bullshit.




Nope. That didn't stick either. :(

Any other anti Cuba canards to sling? Maybe some slime will stick... eventually.

:yoiks: