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A McCain "Win" Will Be Theft, Resistance Is Planned

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davidswanson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-20-08 07:23 PM
Original message
A McCain "Win" Will Be Theft, Resistance Is Planned
If your television declares John McCain the president elect on the evening of November 4th, your television will be lying. You should immediately pick up your pre-packed bags and head straight to the White House in Washington, D.C., which we will surround and shut down until this attempt at a third illegitimate presidency is reversed.

A McCain "win" will not be illegitimate because I disagree with his policies, but because he himself has rendered it illegitimate. He and his campaign and allied supporters have sought to illegally remove hundreds of thousands of voters from the rolls, fraudulently registered people as Republicans without their knowledge and against their will, obstructed voter registration drives, falsely warned students against voting where they attend school, falsely accused community groups of voter registration fraud, falsely alleged the widespread existence of voter fraud, and encouraged supporters to falsely believe McCain's opponent is a foreign terrorist through speeches, recorded phone messages, and flyers. Already in early voting in a number of states there have been cases of votes on electronic machines visibly flipping to McCain or McKinney when intended for Obama. We will see McCain supporters on November 4th challenging people's right to vote, seeking to force people to vote on provisional ballots, and seeking to have provisional ballots discarded. And we will see electronic vote counts wildly out of step with the most recent polls, although not with exit polls -- which we will be denied any access to unless they have been "adjusted" to match the official counts.

Inciting your supporters to violence with racist and religious lies about your opponent, effectively alleging treason on absolutely no basis, should be enough, alone, to disqualify a campaign for the presidency of the United States. Working to block voters from registering should be enough on its own. Any of the dozens of creative forms of vote suppression currently being used by the Republicans should be enough. And allowing votes to be counted on completely unverifiable machines owned and controlled by corporations allied with your party should make the results illegitimate even if plausible. If McCain is declared the "winner," it will not be plausible, but at this point he has so disgraced himself and our electoral system that he is no longer a legitimate candidate for president regardless of what the polls (themselves fallible, but all we've got) say just before election day. Too many people have already been denied the opportunity to even push the buttons and have their votes miscounted. Too much incendiary slander has been let loose. Too much visible vote flipping has already been documented.

If Obama officially wins, McCain is likely to challenge it, charging the Obama campaign with some of the very crimes engaged in by McCain himself. Our reaction should be exactly the same in the event of a McCain challenge as in the event of a McCain "victory." We should not sit back for even a split second and wonder how it will work out. We should not try to organize a plan on the spur of the moment to travel to key battleground states. We should be prepared already to immediately travel to Washington, D.C., head straight for the White House, occupy Lafayette Square Park, the Ellipse, and surrounding streets, block entrances, and shut the place down until Obama is recognized as the president elect or we are guaranteed a credible election with universal registration and hand-counted paper ballots.

We may be there for days or weeks or months. But we must be there. We must be there by the millions. We must show each other, and the nation, and the world that we have had enough, that we will not stand for one more stolen election, that we will not give in to fear, lies, theft, and intimidation. If they choose to attack our nonviolent gathering of citizens, let them do it right in front of George W. Bush's White House with the world's media watching. We will not back down.

I'm not hoping it comes to this, of course. If it doesn't because the official election results are credible and just, we should celebrate and prepare to lobby our government for real change. But if resistance does not develop because people are too scared and obedient to act, then you'll still be glad you packed ahead of time, and you might want to look into tickets to Canada.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-20-08 07:31 PM
Response to Original message
1. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Pharaoh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-20-08 07:33 PM
Response to Original message
2. K&R
Yes they will try.................I hope we are ready, cause they will try............
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RagAss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-20-08 09:30 PM
Response to Reply #2
25. Try what?..They gonna come into my hood?...hahahahahahahaah
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ravencalling Donating Member (247 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-20-08 07:33 PM
Response to Original message
3. I posted this scenario here
Yes I will head straight the the White House! You Betcha!
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Fluffdaddy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-20-08 07:33 PM
Response to Original message
4. Tinfoil Hat
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nyc 4 Biden Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-20-08 07:44 PM
Response to Reply #4
13. The OP forgot to mention that...
...they will attribute the tight win by McCain to the "Bradley Effect." If we listen closely, we may even hear some of them planting that storyline now.
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krkaufman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 02:29 AM
Response to Reply #13
54. You don't have to listen too damn closely.
The Bradley Effect is being talked about all over the place, even though the campaign that actually beat Bradley has explained-away the supposed effect.
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Native Donating Member (885 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 08:56 AM
Response to Reply #54
88. Exactly. Which pretty much points to the fact that mention of it is nothing more than a ruse
to cover whatever they have cooking.
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margotb822 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #88
142. Actually, I heard talk of a Reverse Bradley-effect in places like WV
They have been talking about the possibility that many people do support Obama, but are too cautious (scared of being threatened by the actual crazy racists) to come out and tell it to pollsters. We'll see...
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ann_american2004 Donating Member (480 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #142
144. That's not crazy
That's how I feel sometimes in Texas
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GoddessOfGuinness Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 02:50 PM
Response to Reply #142
159. It makes sense to me that white voters caught in the frenzy of racism
could have a change of heart after a little soul-searching...much more sense than someone suddenly taking a racist stance after expressing support for Obama.

A couple of days ago we took a drive to an orchard through heavily rethuglicanized countryside. 8 years ago it was tough to see the scenery through all the Dumbyass posters. 4 years ago, it had toned down somewhat. Both election years, Gore and Kerry signs were not to be found along our route...probably due to fear of vandalism or worse.

On Sunday, however, things had changed significantly. There were hardly any signs at all, and those homes displaying McSame/Pain ads typically had three in their yard. The lack of advertising says to me that a lot of people are pro-Obama, and scared to admit it.

But what was really shocking was the fact that we actually saw Obama signs! Maybe there's hope...
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Leeny Donating Member (298 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 09:46 PM
Response to Reply #142
225. Maybe they'll cancel each other out
The Bradleys will cancel out the reverse-Bradleys...
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 09:27 AM
Response to Reply #13
100. Or see them planting it.
Either way... blue dogs are going extinct.
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orleans Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 01:21 AM
Response to Reply #4
45. just like with gore and kerry. right? n/t
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olegramps Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 03:49 AM
Response to Reply #45
62. I sent telegrams encouraging Gore not to concede
He should have told the Supreme Court to go fuck themselves because they didn't have the authority to appoint a president. He should have called for massive demonstrations demanding a full recount of the vote. One man-one vote; only if each and everyone is counted.
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orleans Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 04:41 AM
Response to Reply #62
64. yes. n/t
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OHDEM Donating Member (802 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 10:55 AM
Response to Reply #62
116. Did you see the HBO film "Recount"?
Painful to relive it, but interesting nonetheless. In it, Gore gives up despite those working for him trying to talk him out of it. At that point, he felt like continuing to litigate his way into the Presidency wouldn't bring him any legitimacy.

In hindsight, we all now how much better the world would be if Gore had kept fighting.
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ann_american2004 Donating Member (480 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 01:34 PM
Response to Reply #116
145. I wonder if that haunts him
poor guy
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jrockford Donating Member (504 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 08:54 PM
Response to Reply #116
205. He was protecting the system ultimately. He's not to be felt sorry for...we are.
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Leeny Donating Member (298 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 09:51 PM
Response to Reply #116
226. I remember my own total disbelief
that this wasn't really happening. I remember the switch, or the shift, or whatever you want to call it. We were being f**cked. And I remember watching Gore concede and crying.

I was sure it wouldn't happen again.

Not a third time. There will be chaos.
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wolfgangmo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 05:31 PM
Response to Reply #62
180. There should have been an orange revolution
We don't even have the stones the average Ukrainian has.

We deserved Dumbya.
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davidswanson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 09:24 PM
Response to Reply #180
216. WEAR ORANGE
ON NOV 5
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The Doctor. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 06:21 AM
Response to Reply #4
70. Just arrived on Earth?
Or just not been paying attention these last few elections?
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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 07:15 PM
Response to Reply #4
190. Flock you jack. We don't need you. nm
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solanus Donating Member (54 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 09:14 PM
Response to Reply #4
211. tinfold hat
It will be ok, in fact it may work the other way, reverse Bradly effect
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sellitman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-20-08 07:34 PM
Response to Original message
5. I knew there was going to be posts like this.
I've been thinking the same thing.

Once again David you are on the mark.
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SoonerPride Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-20-08 07:37 PM
Response to Original message
6. Something worth fighting for is worth fighting for
We may have to fight our own government to have it recognize the will of the people, but recognize it they will.
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pokercat999 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 08:06 AM
Response to Reply #6
79. If we have to fight it, is it still OUR government?
This is and has been, a government of "international" corporations and the ultra rich. I have two fears, one, the election will be stolen again, two, even if the votes are counted and Obama wins he won't have the strength to take power away from the corporations. I don't think there's enough honest (for the people, not corporations) Democrats in congress to help him. Even Joe Biden is famously in the pocket of the banking industry.

I'll be in Las Vegas on election day so I've already voted (absentee) for Obama/Biden and both democrats down stream in Virginia. It was touch screen so I can only hope the votes were counted as placed but I don't have any real confidence in my vote and only weak confidence at best in my candidates. I will still be apprehensive if Obama wins, less so than if Mc Same stole the election but apprehensive best describes my feelings about the US Government at this stage of my life.

I really think the neocon KKKarl Rove "republicans" are truly anti-American, the trouble is what to do about them. It would be easy to say they should be removed or eliminated but we know that is not an answer and it too is anti-American. What really needs to happen is to educate our fellow Americans to our true history and get them to realize the "American Way" has never existed, unless genocide and slavery are the "American Way". We need them to respect science and provable facts not fantasy from religious books. We need to pound home the notion that extraordinary claims need extraordinary PROOF. We need to understand what Samuel Clements said "Faith is what you call it when you know what you believe isn't true" (paraphrased).

I guess I'm in a mood, in that I realize that change comes slowly and we've gone so far in the wrong direction and moved back onto the course America has always set, that "American Way" of old.

I'd wish everyone good luck but I don't believe in luck.......if life was a poker game I guess the best I can say is that I hope life's variation from the expected falls in your favor.
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L0oniX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 09:03 AM
Response to Reply #79
91. It quit being our government a long time ago IMO.
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solanus Donating Member (54 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 09:18 PM
Response to Reply #6
212. Old Lady here ready here to fight
:patriot:
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Generic Other Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-20-08 07:37 PM
Response to Original message
7. The anxiety is killing me
I am afraid the country can't live through this sort of crazy scenario again.
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babsbunny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-20-08 07:41 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Don't worry!
Whenever I get those feelings I then get a feeling of "All is Well"
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renate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 10:54 AM
Response to Reply #9
115. me too
There's an aura about this campaign--a feeling of hope rather than a desperate feeling of "America has to get rid of this guy if we're going to survive" (although that's there this time, too)--that just feels different.
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ann_american2004 Donating Member (480 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #115
146. yeah but some people live around the crazies
the bible belt where everyone home schools in hopes their child will become a part of the christian army. and you see all those crazies that Palin speaks to - it's like a bad version of Stephen Spielberg's AI. The knuckledraggers are coming out of their garbage heaps to screw this election again. It's freaky. :rofl: :popcorn:

Washington might be fun--I'll bring the popcorn.
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ThatsMyBarack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 08:13 AM
Response to Reply #7
83. Me, too!
I'd rather SELFDESTRUCT than deal with all that shit again! :nuke:
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nyc 4 Biden Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-20-08 07:39 PM
Response to Original message
8. Error: You've already recommended that thread.
k&R
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Doremus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-20-08 07:41 PM
Response to Original message
10. I'm there. Don't know how, but I will. K&R
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HCE SuiGeneris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-20-08 07:42 PM
Response to Original message
11. Any McCain "victory" will NOT be achieved legally.
It could get very ugly if he is installed as pResident elect.
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VenusRising Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-20-08 07:43 PM
Response to Original message
12. I've already told my husband that's what we would do.
Glad to know we aren't the only one thinking of contingency plans.
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uponit7771 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-20-08 07:49 PM
Response to Original message
14. I've told my love ones I'm willing to fight, with peaceful means, for this one like no other time
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solanus Donating Member (54 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 09:20 PM
Response to Reply #14
213. I am so proud to here comments like yours, me too
:patriot:
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-20-08 07:53 PM
Response to Original message
15. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
KathieG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-20-08 07:59 PM
Response to Original message
16. I've said this before...we can charter buses to get to DC if we have to.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-20-08 08:14 PM
Response to Original message
17. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Shanti Mama Donating Member (625 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-20-08 08:15 PM
Response to Original message
18. Maybe the Republican party realizes they need to start over.
The political pendulum swings and maybe they realize that it has swung just too far for them right now. This assumes that there are no seriously dangerous forces at work to bring fascism to America.
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xxqqqzme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #18
138. The publican's realize nothing or if they do
will not admit or acknowledge that realization. They know one thing only - POWER - getting it, exploiting it and keeping it, f*ck the consequences. They are Gollum. I'm hoping this election is the struggle on the ledge and they go tumbling into the fire, clutching their precious power.
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leeroysphitz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 08:45 PM
Response to Reply #18
203. That is assuming a lot, actually. n/t
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-20-08 08:29 PM
Response to Original message
19. A necessary element:
The Democratic Party Top Officials MUST physically stand with us.
If Obama and top party officials are NOT standing with us, we will have no legitimacy. We will simply be "anarchists", "rioters", or "terrorists",...and Blackwater will mow us down.

If John Kerry or Al Gore had called, I would have answered.
It will do no good if the Democratic Party concedes.
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Karl_Bonner_1982 Donating Member (701 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 01:15 AM
Response to Reply #19
43. Do it anyway!
I don't think the public will buy the "they are just a bunch of radicals" bullshit anymore. Just be prepared to move at a moment's notice!
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 10:42 AM
Response to Reply #43
113. So we go to DC....
...over a Million of us show up, and we wear Orange Shirts, and camp out at the White House....

...Exactly what are you going to demand?

What are you going to do if The Democratic Party concedes this election?

It has been 8 years since the 2000 election was stolen.
What has the Democratic Party done to protect this election or to protest the theft of the previous two elections?

The Democratic Party has a miserable track record of closing ranks with the Republicans to protect the Money System. Didn't the majority of the Democratic Party vote to Censure MoveOn.....a fucking private organization who dared to criticize the Iraq War?


If there is no leader...
If there is no list of grievances...
If there is no organization....
If there is no coordination....
If there are no specific demands...
THEN 1,000,000 leaderless people in the streets really is anarchy.
If we go to DC, WHAT do you want, WHO will speak for you, and WHO are the Bad Guys?

Obama is really the ONLY figure capable of leading this revolt (and that is what it is).
If he calls, I will answer.....
but I just don't see him doing it.

A stolen election WAS overturned in recent history.
Look to the Ukraine.
The protest was led from the TOP.
Yushchenko called his supporters to the street, and stood with them.






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Wednesdays Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 06:53 AM
Response to Reply #19
72. Funny, "V" didn't wait for party officials
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 09:48 AM
Response to Reply #72
106. You DO know .....
..that V is fiction?

So is the story of the 100th Monkey.
However, I do believe in cultural Critical Mass, and Tipping Points.

The social changes implemented by Franklin Roosevelt simmered & brewed in the masses for years before leaders stepped in.

However, to protest an election theft, the victim Party would really have to provide a Leader (in this case Obama).
The Ukraine provides the most recent example of successfully overturning a crooked election.


"Mr Yushchenko then addressed tens of thousands of his supporters in Kiev's central Independence Square, thanking them for their support and urging them to remain in the square until he was officially declared as the winner.

Yushchenko supporters, in their distinctive orange colours, celebrated the anticipated victory with a concert and a fireworks display. They have kept up huge rallies in the capital for weeks, despite sub-zero temperatures."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4127203.stm
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ann_american2004 Donating Member (480 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #106
149. your avatar
inspires as you deny...how titillating!
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Native Donating Member (885 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 08:59 AM
Response to Reply #19
89. Bullshit!
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natrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #19
117. please, nancy pelosi is such a pos she will stand with her masters unquestionably
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natrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 11:03 AM
Response to Reply #117
118. surrounding the white house is a republican wet dream so they can use their new weapons on crowds
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davidswanson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 09:28 PM
Response to Reply #118
218. which will work
exactly as well as firehoses stopped the civil rights movement

be nonviolent

be disciplined

be brave

be confident

bring video cameras
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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 01:41 PM
Response to Reply #19
147. That's right, Bob
After I spent all day Election Day 2004 tramping around in the cold knocking on doors till 7:30 PM, I went home to put my feet up, and I was awake long enough to hear that Kerry had conceded, despite suspicious happenings in Ohio, and I thought, "Damn, man, you don't care as much as the 10,000 people who volunteered in the Twin Cities did."
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jgraz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 05:36 PM
Response to Reply #19
181. If they concede then we throw both parties out
It needs to happen anyway.
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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 07:18 PM
Response to Reply #19
193. Bull shit. The leaders of the Democratic Party are member in f***** good standing of the
ruling class. People will have to choose. The is a class war stupid.
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Kurt_and_Hunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-20-08 08:43 PM
Response to Original message
20. Why surround the White House?
Edited on Mon Oct-20-08 08:43 PM by Kurt_and_Hunter
You'd want to surround the Capito and the Supreme Court.

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SoonerPride Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-20-08 08:46 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. How about we shut down the entire city?
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elleng Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-20-08 09:10 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. No thanks; I LIVE there, along with many others.
And no machetes, as someone here has suggested.

Wanna bet we won't know for another while? Guess that'll depend on which and how many states, etc.

Notwithstanding my above 'objections,' I'm with y'all; have been thinking this for a LONG time.

VIVE LA REVOLUTION.
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Cobalt-60 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 02:19 AM
Response to Reply #23
53. How about a nice pitchfork?
Im a little old to engage Blackwater hand to hand.
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davidswanson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 09:31 PM
Response to Reply #53
220. only nonviolence
can succeed

and is not something to joke about
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pitchforksandtorches Donating Member (288 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 10:01 PM
Response to Reply #53
229. I've got my 4-prong pitchfork at the ready
and my vehicle is full of gas and food.
I'm there in D.C. if need be.
Otherwise I'm hoping Obama will landslide his way in then announce that he will take the POTUS oath in Springfield, Illinois.
Then I would be heading down Interstate 55!
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Bernardo de La Paz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-20-08 11:31 PM
Response to Reply #21
40. If McCain steals the election don't shut down Pelosi and Congress. Shut down McCain / RNC lawyers.
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Just-plain-Kathy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 05:50 AM
Response to Reply #40
69. Why not Pelosi? Do you think she's on our side? ...She should be investigated.
"Impeachment off the table", is she stupid? Or, treasonous?
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Bernardo de La Paz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #69
131. Oh that old canard. Well, establish a circular firing squad with your friends.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #131
161. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
TankLV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 08:03 AM
Response to Reply #20
77. SURROND THE TV STUDIOS & RADIO STATIONS!
surrounding the "white house" will do no goog - you have to take over the WHORE MEDIA and TAKE THEM OVER or shut them DOWN!
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daggahead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 10:19 AM
Response to Reply #77
110. That would certainly get some attention!
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solanus Donating Member (54 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 09:22 PM
Response to Reply #77
214. we have to save Keith Olberman, otherwise OK
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TankLV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 08:04 AM
Response to Reply #20
78. SURROND THE TV STUDIOS & RADIO STATIONS!
surrounding the "white house" will do no good - you have to take over the WHORE MEDIA and TAKE THEM OVER or shut them DOWN!
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davidswanson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 09:30 PM
Response to Reply #20
219. no
congress will not be there
the supreme court will probably not be relevant

meet at the white house, and we'll plan and organize

the white house is the headquarters of the empire that is replacing our republic
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Lerrad Donating Member (383 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-20-08 08:51 PM
Response to Original message
22. I'm with you all the way....
... my wife and I were just talking about this, this past weekend.

I will not standby and let this happen for the third time in a row. In fact we may be demonstrating here in Ohio in the next few weeks, depending on the outcome of the voter registration lawsuits going on as we speak. The Ohio Supreme court which will hear the case is ran by Republican Judges that were bought and paid for by the 316 Group that is filing the law suit.

If I survive the demonstrations that I'm sure will take place here in Ohio, I will see you in DC!
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-20-08 09:24 PM
Response to Original message
24. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-20-08 09:32 PM
Response to Original message
26. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Yes We Did Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-20-08 09:39 PM
Response to Original message
27. Easy everyone!
Edited on Mon Oct-20-08 09:41 PM by demdog78
Do not forget the whole world is watching... This is no time for violence... And suggestions like machetes and "party favors" does not make us as Democrats or DU look very good.

I agree, if the worst happens we must march, but let's not get carried away. If you think for one minute that the government doesn't monitor this site... Well, we all know better and I would hate for anyone on here to get in trouble for suggesting violence.

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manray11 Donating Member (60 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-20-08 10:12 PM
Response to Reply #27
33. Great
we'll just be passive and accept the injustice... It's not like Obama is that different from McCain, what we're fighting for is democracy, yes, it could even happen here...
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eagertolearn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 08:08 AM
Response to Reply #33
81. We should all hit the streets at our own capitals immediately if this happens! n/t
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Yes We Did Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #33
128. That's not what I said.
We don't need to be inciting violence here on DU. That is what I said. And apparantly the mods agree with me as all of "those threads" have been removed.
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manray11 Donating Member (60 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 07:18 PM
Response to Reply #128
192. The Mods are wise but doesn't mean they agree with you entirely
It is after all a crime to incite violence but not to warn of the possible response to a stolen election. I believe many will be very angry if it's stolen again, particularly as Obama is so far ahead and it would be so beyond obvious this time around... Peace has it's place but we'd still have a British monarchy if folk didn't stand up...
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davidswanson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 09:34 PM
Response to Reply #33
221. could anyone so ignorant
Edited on Tue Oct-21-08 09:34 PM by davidswanson
as to imagine passivity and violence are our only options please read this book. Thanks!
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manray11 Donating Member (60 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 09:53 PM
Response to Reply #221
228. Oh, that's the book for wusses ... Just kiddin'..Peace out and pray
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tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 02:01 AM
Response to Reply #27
51. Shutting down Washington is not violent, but neither is it passive.
I will see you at the barricades or I will not, as you decide. I'm decided.
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reggie the dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 03:30 AM
Response to Reply #27
60. party favors???
What is wrong with bringing a few joints to the protest?
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TankLV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 08:06 AM
Response to Reply #27
80. Yes - the WHOLE WORLD IS WATCHING - therefore we MUST take to the streets
if this election is stolen AGAIN!

THE WHOLE WORLD IS WATCHING AND WONDERING - WHY WE DIDN'T ACT THE OTHER TIMES!!!

ESPECIALLY IN 2000...
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bjobotts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #80
167. Haven't you noticed...we live in a military police state.Bush brought in troops for the election
I hate to even say it but the only thing that for sure will prevent the stealing of the election is if McCain suddenly dies because no one would vote for Palin for president.
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bjobotts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #167
168. I will never recognize McCain as president or accept it 'cause I know he wasn't elected.
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bjobotts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 04:00 PM
Response to Reply #168
170. I can't imagine McCain making a speech conceding the election
This may lead to an insurgency huh? Palin claiming if you don't agree with her you're "anti-American". It's the American Taliban
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The Wielding Truth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 07:42 PM
Response to Reply #170
195. I heard him already admit he might lose and what he would do.
I'll see if I can find the video.
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solanus Donating Member (54 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 09:23 PM
Response to Reply #168
215. I will never saluate the flag again if McCain gets in there
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pokercat999 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 08:16 AM
Response to Reply #27
85. Hmmmm, what would work? How about a national strike?
Buy nothing except food, do not go anywhere except protests marches and picket lines, especially to work, do not pay any bills. Join together in a national union and demand or take regular pay for everyone that participates in the strike. Commit to your neighbor (fellow striker) completely.

Maybe, just maybe it could work.
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MessiahRp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 09:16 AM
Response to Reply #85
96. I honestly think it would take a lasting strike to have any serious impact
and good luck getting enough participants to go through with it to make a difference. :-/

Rp
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CrispyQ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 11:43 AM
Response to Reply #85
123. Over half the eligible voters don't vote.
Why would they give a shit if the election is stolen?

There aren't enough people who care to make a national strike big enough & long enough to make a difference. You are not going to get people to stop going to work. Not with unemployment at the levels it's at now. You would be replaced in a few days & business would go on as usual. As for shopping, bad as this economic crisis is now, it's not nearly bad enough for people like my sister to stop going to the mall. Shopping is her favorite past time. It doesn't matter that she has to buy less shit & cheaper shit. She could care less if the election is stolen as long as she can buy a few cheap trinkets every week. Sadly, she's not the only one I know like this!

If they steal this election, most people will swallow the Bradley effect argument & go back to their lives. And John McCain will die within the next four years & the real horror will begin. Palin will take a sledge hammer to the separation of church & state & in a few short years, this country will look more like Afghanistan than America.

Wow. I've totally depressed myself. Time to get off the internet & go for a walk! I have a few yard signs to distribute - maybe that will lift my spirits.



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leeroysphitz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 09:07 PM
Response to Reply #85
207. Strike?
I can't afford to buy anything more than food and gas as it is and I don't go anywhere except for work and it's the best, maybe only job available right now but I'm supposed to just abandon it and put my family on the street hungry? Come on. This isn't France, the working class in this country doesn't have the luxury for a prolonged siege type strike. I'm not "advocating" violence but whatever we do to enforce our will is going to have to be quick and dirty to have any chance of succeeding. JMHO.

Having said all of that I will also say this: I don't foresee the problem. We are going to win and win BIG. Can't you feel it? Can you DIG it?

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pokercat999 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-22-08 05:32 AM
Response to Reply #207
239. Never been there but from what I hear maybe we should be
a little more like the French.

My fear is a bigger win just means a bigger, bolder theft.
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L0oniX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 09:08 AM
Response to Reply #27
92. I am sure it will be the pigs and our military that will be the violent ones first..
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davidswanson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 09:37 PM
Response to Reply #92
222. first, and only, and repeatedly
and we will not win instantly or without suffering, but there is always more suffering if we are violent and as an added plus violence cannot possibly win anything
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The Stranger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 09:42 AM
Response to Reply #27
105. The "whole world" that "is watching" supports the people taking back the U.S. government.
For the last time, STOP WORRYING ABOUT HOW THINGS LOOK. That is the corporate media mindfuck working on you -- not reality. Resist it, and know many, many others have broken its hold.
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garybeck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 11:57 AM
Response to Reply #27
125. who is suggesting violence?
Swanson's OP talks only of a non-violent demonstration/gathering.
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leeroysphitz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 08:53 PM
Response to Reply #27
204. FAIL.
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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-20-08 09:42 PM
Response to Original message
28. I'm gonna put on my happy, hopeful, optimistic hat and say I think Obama is going to win.
So we won't need to do any packing except to go to the inauguration.

If by some wild, off chance McCain does somehow pull it off I think David is right on the money on how we should play it.

I'd also like to mention something I heard spoken by Jesse Ventura just last night on a book signing he had for his book "Don't Start the Revolution Without Me." I have never really paid much attention to the guy, but he had my undivided attention last night and I really liked almost all of what he had to say.

But here's the important part. He said we need to have a revolution, but it does not need to be violent, since a revolution is simply a fundamental change of government that takes place in a very short period of time. He went on to explain that he had actually been in the Philippines when the people of the Philippines THREW OUT the Marcos government. He said that it was breathtaking to watch how those citizens took to the streets along with their representatives from the government and said "Enough."

There ain't no sugar cane in Washington, so, leave your machetes at home if you decide to make the trek. But bring your patriotism, your belief in government by the consent of the governed, and a stubborn willingness to right a grievous wrong.

We will prevail.

GO OBAMA!!

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grannylib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-20-08 10:01 PM
Response to Original message
29. I will be there. I hope it won't be necessary, but if the fuckers TRY tosteal this one,
I will be there if I have to crawl on my hands and knees. I have already told my family, and the HR department at work, seriously: if McAnus and the rePigliCons try to steal this election, don't expect to see me for a while. I will be GONE. And I will stay gone, chained to whatever fence/federal building/monument/WHATEVER...until all the votes are counted and counted accurately and we have THE president we are supposed to have. President Barack Obama. We owe that much to ourselves, our nation, our kids and grandkids; we owe it to our democracy and our Constitution; I owe it to my Dad, who isn't here to see this day, but who worked toward it during the Civil Rights movement, alongside Dr. Martin, Rev. Abernathy, and others in the SCLC.
I will be there if we need to be there. And I'll stay there as long as I need to be there.

Barack will not lose this election; they may try to steal it, but he won't lose, unless he rolls over. And he ain't rollin' over. Not this time. Not this year. Not while I have breath in my body.
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tucsonlib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 12:29 AM
Response to Reply #29
42. Beautifully Said, grannylib!
I too will be there. For as long as it takes. Whatever it takes. But I will also be checking out Costa Rican real estate. Just in case. Unfortunately, this ain't the 60s or 70s any more. Canada is no longer easy to emigrate to.
Still, I remain optimistic. I do believe Obama will win in a landslide...
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 01:52 AM
Response to Reply #29
50. I'll see ya there.
:hi: :patriot:
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ThatsMyBarack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 06:55 PM
Response to Reply #29
187. Can I join you, grannylib?
:patriot: :hi:
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grannylib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 07:43 PM
Response to Reply #187
196. Damn straight!
:hug:
But let's join up for something more constructive at some point...hoping this little venture won't be necessary :-)
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solanus Donating Member (54 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 09:26 PM
Response to Reply #29
217. I am just worried about getting where ever we need to go
:patriot:
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rodney Donating Member (2 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-20-08 10:08 PM
Response to Original message
30. I'm down with it
I've been telling people lately that if it appears the next
election is stolen we should be prepared to do just what Mr.
Swanson is saying. I'll be ready to go.

"The oppressed should rebel, and they will continue to
rebel and raise disturbance until their civil rights are fully
restored to them and all partial distinctions, exclusions and
incapacitations are removed." --Thomas Jefferson
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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 07:19 PM
Response to Reply #30
194. I am with Thomas all the way. nm
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chookie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-20-08 10:09 PM
Response to Original message
31. Make sure you are registered ahead of time, not just on Election Dad
Please, every one who is a new voter, or has changed their address, or who registered at an informal registration, or are minorities that are targeted, to check NOW that they are on the rolls. ASAP. If they are not, they must go to an official office of registration and start a paper trail.

Today.

If not, they must rectify this, because if they wait till Election Day, their vote is down the toilet, stolen, and it will be virtually impossible to rectify.

Sometimes the happy smiling faces at informal voter registration tables are frauds, who just throw away the Dem applications. Also suspect are any registration, change of address, etc, done on the internet.

I got burned this way in FL 2000. Watch out. We have to win this one.

Please pass this around. This is an important protection of our votes this time around.
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ddeclue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-20-08 10:10 PM
Response to Original message
32. Shouldn't we at least lose or something first before gettng all bitter about it
and planning a revolt???

I mean it really looks like Obama's gonna win folks..

Doug D.
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manray11 Donating Member (60 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-20-08 10:14 PM
Response to Reply #32
34. EXCELLENT POINT
I agree... My old man used to say something like (as yours probably did) cross your bridges when they appear...
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Native Donating Member (885 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 09:23 AM
Response to Reply #34
97. Not so excellent point! Why wouldn't you want to have a plan in place just in case we have to cross
that bridge? Wouldn't that be the prudent & rational thing to do? Geez! I'm all for not freaking out unless there's a reason to, but after two stolen elections - WTF more justification do you want? Yeah, let's just sit around and wait to see what happens. I, for one, don't think we can afford to be complacent to any FUCKING degree.
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LiberalLovinLug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 02:21 PM
Response to Reply #34
157. That's a bridge to NOWHERE
...my friend

x(
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iamjoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-20-08 10:36 PM
Response to Reply #32
36. Let's Not Get Cocky
I am optimistic, but also concerned. I remember New Hampshire and feeling like we couldn't lose in 2004. I do believe that if we don't win now we won't be able to accept the results as legit. Anyway, I am all nervous.

It's too late now to canvass or phone bank and we have to do something.

:hi:
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tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 02:04 AM
Response to Reply #32
52. Expect the best, prepare for the worst
We were all broadsided with the Gore situation and Kerry threw us all overboard when we were ready to do exactly this. This time, if it happens, we will revolt. Simple, preplanned and not based on the reaction or capitulation of our candidate.
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illuminaughty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 03:14 AM
Response to Reply #52
58. You got it.
I remember signing online pledges to take to the streets and to Washington in 2004 if the election was stolen. Those of us who had worked for MoveOn for months couldn't even get an answer from them and we were prepared to do whatever they asked. The wording then was "bags packed". And here on DU we kept hoping we'd hear from our candidate. Those were dark days. This time we act alone.
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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 10:11 AM
Response to Reply #32
108. ddeclue, someone reminded us a couple of days ago that GORE HAD A DOUBLE-DIGIT LEAD
the week before the 2000 election.

I think planning ahead might be a matter of having learned from history instead of repeating its failed lessons AGAIN.

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cui bono Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #32
148. Um, no. You hope for the best, plan for the worst.
Do you think you should wait for an earthquake or hurricane before you prepare for it? That's why it's called preparation. We've already seen the forecast. The fix is in. And if we can't get enough numbers out to negate it, we have to act.



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Two Americas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #148
156. we'll cross that bridge...
..after the storm hits and the bridge has been washed away. I think that is what people are saying.
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cui bono Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 04:06 PM
Response to Reply #156
171. Haha... sad but true. n/t
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Psyop Samurai Donating Member (873 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-20-08 10:34 PM
Response to Original message
35. Thank you, David. Stand fast. /nt
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stevedeshazer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-20-08 10:40 PM
Response to Original message
37. What you said
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scytherius Donating Member (576 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-20-08 10:47 PM
Response to Original message
38. Absolutely count me in!
No longer can we permit these people, who took power, via coup, to occupy any position of power. If McCain wins it was stolen and America must march by the millions and demand a constitutional convention and erasure of the U.S. as we know it to start again. under no circumstances must a McCain/Palin presidency be permitted.
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Bernardo de La Paz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-20-08 11:29 PM
Response to Original message
39. Don't shut down your own government in an economic crisis. Duh. Shut down McCain and RNC.
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nichomachus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 06:55 AM
Response to Reply #39
74. The Bush White House is NOT "my government"
The sooner that cesspool is shut down, the better.
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Bernardo de La Paz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #74
134. Yes it is your government. You may not like it, but you are stuck. Feel free to shoot your foot.
Shut down the White House for three months and drive your country into the ground and a deep recession while nothing gets done. You want to hurt millions of hard-working Democratic voters and supporters? Not the sharpest knife in the drawer.

Focus your anger on McCain and the RNC, where it will actually accomplish something.
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Indepatriot Donating Member (119 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-20-08 11:49 PM
Response to Original message
41. Remember the Orange Revolution in Ukraine!
My tent sleeps four, so they'll be room for three to join me! I'm all in on this one. If we don't stand up for ourselves we'll get the government we deserve. I don't think It'll come to this but if it does, I'll be the one cooking ribs on the Weber in front of the White House. Grill, Baby, Grill!
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Karl_Bonner_1982 Donating Member (701 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 01:17 AM
Response to Reply #41
44. Remember the summer of 1932!
The time that WW1 veterans occupied DC in order to try and get a bonus paid.
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sce56 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 01:31 AM
Response to Reply #44
47. Was that the Bonus Army that Prescott Bush tried to get Gen Butler to use to overthrow FDR?
I know that was a year before Bush tried to make a coup against FDR!


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Karl_Bonner_1982 Donating Member (701 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 01:36 AM
Response to Reply #47
48. I don't think so.
The Democrats were more sympathetic to the Bonus movement than Republicans. There may have been a few Bonus members that were approached by the frontmen for the Business Coup, but as far as I know, the Bonus Army itself was not involved.
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orleans Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 01:29 AM
Response to Original message
46. k&r n/t
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carnie_sf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 01:43 AM
Response to Original message
49. I think
we should also shut down every state house and city hall in America. :grr:
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Blue State Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 02:35 AM
Response to Original message
55. David, someone should post a reward for evidence...
of "vote flipping" electronic voting machines. Visual proof of the flip in progress.

This should be pushed in early voting states. We need to have such a visual aide before election day. You put that in a commercial before election day, and you will have your march on Washington.

You have a bigger voice than I do, and I have faith in your ability to get such a program up and running quickly. After Downing Street led the way early on causing the first chink in their armor with the Basement Hearings.

It's time that we seal the deal.
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davidswanson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 09:38 AM
Response to Reply #55
103. done
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tomreedtoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 02:35 AM
Response to Original message
56. So, kill yourself or let them kill you?
I wonder at the choices offered in this thread.
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Mr_Jefferson_24 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 02:46 AM
Response to Original message
57. K&R.
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knixphan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 03:26 AM
Response to Original message
59. If that happens,
I'll be there, and I'll drag my peeps with me.

We owe it to our young people.

We must show them how decent citizens respond if our system is violated by those who would sacrifice our democracy for short-term gain.

Still believing the best, and trusting our brilliant candidate (and his attorneys)

But if the pukes steal it, I'll be in DC, don't you worry.
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sab3rX Donating Member (28 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 03:34 AM
Response to Original message
61. I recommend having a list of phone numbers ready
If anything fishy happens, phone bomb and e-mal spam all of the major networks, all of your representatives, do everything in your power to right the wrong. Don't let the media control the narrative because that's how 2000 was lost. Don't let the other side control what can and can't be done.
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machI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 04:40 AM
Response to Original message
63. Bush will have the Army waiting for protesters
http://www.armytimes.com/news/2008/09/army_homeland_090708w/

Brigade homeland tours start Oct. 1

3rd Infantry’s 1st BCT trains for a new dwell-time mission. Helping ‘people at home’ may become a permanent part of the active Army

The 1st BCT’s soldiers also will learn how to use “the first ever nonlethal package that the Army has fielded,” 1st BCT commander Col. Roger Cloutier said, referring to crowd and traffic control equipment and nonlethal weapons designed to subdue unruly or dangerous individuals without killing them.


They do put in the caveat (like anyone believes them)

The package is for use only in war-zone operations, not for any domestic purpose.
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1Hippiechick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 05:16 AM
Response to Reply #63
66. Agreed. And with out country becoming a police state, I think the tenor of these posts is even
becoming dangerous - particularly any mention of overthrowing the government.
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machI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 05:32 AM
Response to Reply #66
68. The boys in the back room are working on stuff out of science fiction movies
http://www.defensetech.org/archives/004461.html

Marines Fund Non-Lethal Heat Ray

The system beams millimeter wave energy at the speed of light for more than 250 meters and penetrates the top layer of the skin. As soon as you move away from the beam the pain stops, although there is a nagging sensation of pain for few moments afterwards. The antenna covers a full 360 degrees and the beam can be used to sweep across a crowd or to target one person at a time. It’s got safety cutoffs so it doesn’t cause permanent damage, according to John Patterson, a Raytheon spokesman.


The military has been working on non lethal weapons for over 20 years. You know the White House will be one of the first places Bush Administration will use them to protect.
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L0oniX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 09:13 AM
Response to Reply #63
93. Yes ..our sons and daughters will shoot us ...it will be a Kent State type massacre.
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machI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 04:41 PM
Response to Reply #93
174. It won't start out with bullets
First the bluff

Then the bullying by phalanxes of troops making a human wall

When that doesn't work, out comes the billy clubs and tear gas

Soon there are chemical vials fired from paint ball guns followed by bean bags fired out of shotguns

By this time the troops are all wild,feverish, and emotionally charged as their training takes over and suppresses their inner soul. When the command is given to shoot real bullets, the troops are machines, not our sons and daughters.
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Alcibiades Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 09:14 AM
Response to Reply #63
94. But will they open fire?
Plenty of instances of troops refusing to massacre civilians. Of course, plenty of instances of them following orders.
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machI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 04:44 PM
Response to Reply #94
176. The response by the military won't start out with intentions of a massacre
But as you indicate, bad situations have a definite propensity to spiral out of control.
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fasttense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 04:43 AM
Response to Original message
65. I'm with you. I already packed.
I had decided to do this, if the corporate media declares McCain the winner, when I heard about the votes flipping in W. Va. This whole election is sounding very much like when the Republicons stole it from Kerry.

We just don't have any other alternative. We saw eight horrible years of an unnecessary, costly war, thousands killed in Katrina, millionaires making billions while passing on their corporate debt to our children. We have watched our economy take down the world economy based on fake stocks and ponzi schemes. What will result from 8 more years of illegitimate Republicon rule will be devastating.

We American citizens can Not sit by and watch the remains of our tattered Democracy go down the drain. We have to make a stand sometime.

I'm not even going to wait to see what Obama does. I think if we get out there, Obama and other Democratic leaders will step in front and start leading.

Three times a stolen election is no charm. It is a call to action.

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debbierlus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 05:30 AM
Response to Original message
67. The fact that anyone would take this election for granted after TWO stolen elections

Is insane...

I think that Obama will win outright, simply because it will be a landslide. It is one thing if the polls are 'within the margin of error' to create a false case. But, a McCain win after polls show double digit leads in swing states will be MUCH harder to sell.

That said, we need to prepare for all eventualities and be prepared to march on Washington, if this should happen.

And, not blink an eye. I will go. I commit to it now.
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LiberalEsto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 06:44 AM
Response to Original message
71. We can follow the footsteps of Gandhi and Dr. King
Passive non-violent protest, if necessary. But no rough stuff.
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StrictlyRockers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 06:54 AM
Response to Original message
73. I'm with you, my brothers and sisters. To the Bastille!!
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babydollhead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 06:56 AM
Response to Original message
75. agreed. Also...make local contingency plans
if the power grid, satellites, cell phone computer communications are down We must be able to gather locally in our own neighborhoods and cities and survive. Meet your neighbors!
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 07:50 AM
Response to Reply #75
76. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
LibraLiz1973 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 08:09 AM
Response to Reply #76
82. Pizza, Aisle 1.
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ElboRuum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #82
126. I always get here too late for the tombstonings.
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 08:15 AM
Response to Original message
84. I am there
Let's hope it doesn't come to this but if it does, you can count me in, David!
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GinaMaria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 08:16 AM
Response to Original message
86. Video Your Vote
Use the video capability on your cell phone if you have one and document your voting experience. PBS and You tube have come together for this project and are asking for people's videos of their poll experience. Any theft will be documented by individuals. Help those who do not have access to video recording phones or cameras. The Internet is open to the world. If there is an illegit gov installed, the rest of the world can refuse to recognize it. They will need to see the proof.

Here are some you tube resources to use to understand the project better:

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=video+your+vote&search_type=&aq=f
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lizzieforkerry Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 08:33 AM
Response to Original message
87. I've got a van leaving from Southwest Ohio
email me if you need a ride. Fair warning, due to childcare issues, I will have a 7 year old, 5 year old and 2 year old with me. :grouphug:
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L0oniX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 09:01 AM
Response to Original message
90. They will call out the military (our sons and daughters) and they will shoot us.
It will be a Kent State type massacre.
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 09:26 AM
Response to Reply #90
99. Well, I'll stand in front and take some of the fire with my old, fat carcass - y'all can hide behind
I might as well make myself useful ... even if others are too scared to.
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1Hippiechick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #99
186. Oh, Hell, No, TahitiNut. You more than paid your dues in Nam, I'll come shield YOU! n/t
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 08:05 PM
Response to Reply #186
201. !
:hug: :loveya:

I think that may be one of the nicest things anyone's said to me on DU. Thank you.

I am, however, quite serious. At my age, I'm not what I once was ... and in a nonviolent protest that would "get in harm's way" and leave blood in the streets, I'd be more than willing to be a human shield (bullet sink) if it'd help take this nation from the grips of fascism. Somebody's gotta do it ... sooner or later. The autocrats ain't gonna fade away peacefully. At one time, they might have. No longer.

We have a long row to hoe -- far more than just one election.

We're in a political/power situation not unlike India under British colonial rule in the early 20th century when Gandhi came to prominence. It took the Amritsar Massacre in 1919 to crystallize the continued resolve that finally led to India's independence. The British saw themselves as "good people" and "civilized" and all the things the 'leaders' in this country like to call themselves as well. While that was a colonial context, the soldiers WERE Indian Army ... indigenous. I personally think the entrenched power interests in this country are now comparable ... and will take a comparable spilling of the blood of unarmed people in civil disobedience.

I wish it weren't so. Wishing won't make it not so.

At some point -- preferably sooner than later -- such carnage will be essential (and unavoidable) to create the massive shift in public awareness this nation will need. It has only been such shocks to the national consciousness that has EVER mobilized it. (The 'smart' reichbots will try to avoid it. The lesser lights will no doubt make it come true.)

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1Hippiechick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 09:14 PM
Response to Reply #201
210. Oh, Tahiti - none of us is as young as we were in the 60s--I'll be 61 next month. But, we're wiser.
We have to keep warning and encouraging the younger generation - they don't have the perspective of living the history we have lived. I, too, am willing to do whatever I have to in the name of protest. We can't stop. Not now.

I have never met you, Tahiti, but the fact that you are a Nam vet as those of our frineds who made it back is all I need to know. No one knows the trauma, the heartache, the permanent emotional scarring that our vets brought back from Nam. The fact that you even survived Nam is all I need to know about you or any other Nam vet, Tahiti. You will always be at the top of my list.

Donna
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olegramps Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-22-08 05:06 AM
Response to Reply #201
238. Hell, whats a few more aches and pains. Wouldn't be the first time I was shot at.
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stolivodka Donating Member (411 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 09:28 AM
Response to Reply #90
101. Give me liberty or give me death.
If they dare.

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." - Thomas Jefferson
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eowyn_of_rohan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 09:31 AM
Response to Reply #90
102. Yup. Or zap us with Raytheon weapons
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1corona4u Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 09:14 AM
Response to Original message
95. I'm there.
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uponit7771 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 09:25 AM
Response to Original message
98. Someone should organize the logistics of 200,000 people shifts so people can take weeks off work.
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davidswanson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 09:40 AM
Response to Reply #98
104. we'll organize there
but we have to get there fast -- all of us
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daggahead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 10:07 AM
Response to Original message
107. If McCain "wins,"
Edited on Tue Oct-21-08 10:07 AM by daggahead
... we need to go to Washington, and wear orange shirts and hats. The people in the Ukraine did this to protest the defeat of Viktor Yushchenko in 2004, even though Yushchenko was wildly more popular than his opponent Viktor Yanukovych.

We can stage our own Orange Revolution if need be.


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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 10:16 AM
Response to Original message
109. This is paranoid, inflammatory gobbledy-gook
A McCain "win" will not be illegitimate because I disagree with his policies, but because he himself has rendered it illegitimate.

In your opinion. Nobody has elected David Swanson the sole judge of what constitutes legitimacy in terms of election outcomes.

If McCain is declared the winner and it can be shown with real evidence that the result was due to fraud, that would be the time to pack bags and hit the streets.

Shame on you, David Swanson. You have here on DU an audience of sensitive, nervous people here who have been subjected to years of allegations of election fraud, never proved; people who spend way too much of their time allowing TV talking heads and the Blogosphere to keep them in a near panic; and you come in as a Pied Piper of doom spewing wild speculation about an imaginable but extremely unlikely outcome from events that have not yet taken place.

Well written post as usual, but I give you a 2 out of 10 on rant content.
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Truth2Tell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 12:40 PM
Response to Reply #109
130. You have here on DU an audience of sensitive, nervous people...
people who spend way too much of their time allowing TV talking heads and the Blogosphere to keep them in a near panic...

I hope your jackass broad brush insult of your fellow DUers buys you a well deserved tombstone slackmaster.
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anigbrowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #130
135. No tombstone is warranted
Yes, I worry about the possibility of the election being stolen, but I don't believe in borrowing trouble. If trouble arises, then I'll respond. The OP cranks out this kind of demagoguery on a daily basis; I'll bet money that if Obama is elected, within 3 months every other post from him will have the word 'betrayal' in the title.
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Truth2Tell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #135
139. demagoguery is in the eye of the beholder
Some of us are more concerned about the hyperbole from the right.

And yes, after Obama is elected we will need to be vigilant about pressing for progressive change. And there will many betrayals. Believe it or not, many Obama supporters and many DUers place principle before Party. Weird eh?
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #135
153. And You are Here to Consistantly Demean Posters
Edited on Tue Oct-21-08 02:45 PM by fascisthunter
who actually do good for DU, rather than just piss on posts you don't like.
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #135
164. If Obama is elected, I guarantee you there will be an endless, tedious hue and cry from the right
About how the election was "stolen"; and DUers will respond with schoolyard taunts like "sore loser".

And I will sit back and enjoy the entertainment value thus produced.
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #130
163. We also have plenty of people on DU who recognize the "demabloguery" practiced by some of us
Edited on Tue Oct-21-08 03:44 PM by slackmaster
If you think I have violated the posting rules, feel free to bring your concern to the moderators. I've out-lasted a whole lot of dogmatic, strident people who thought I was Satan incarnate because they didn't like my views on one thing or another, and who pretty good at demonstrating brinksmanship on the moderation policy, but in the end they are the ones who earned the tombstone after months of playing "Bait and Alert" with me.

I don't feel there is any "broad brush insult" inherent in pointing out that we have a lot of frightened, vulnerable people among us. It's the truth, Truth. Deal with it.
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davidswanson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 09:40 PM
Response to Reply #109
223. the theft is openly underway
you want to wait until Nov 5th to point out evidence we have in October? because that will make you seem more credible?

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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-22-08 10:16 AM
Response to Reply #223
243. The right way to deal with problems with registration, voting machines etc. is to deal with them now
Not to prepare for some kind of mass post-election protest, which is what your OP calls for.

:nuke:
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SidneyCarton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 10:30 AM
Response to Original message
111. And then what?
Someone mentioned "V for Vendetta" in this thread. Perhaps you remember this line: When asked what will happen in the face of mass disturbances, the policeman replied "what usually happens when a group of people with guns confronts a group without them"

Maybe I have my tinfoil on, but the 1st ID is here in country with orders that include the suppression of an uprising if it takes place. Many of you are willing to go to DC because you think this will be the Orange Revolution, and perhaps it will be, but what happens if it turns out to be Tianamen Square?

What happens if instead of tear gas and Raytheon sci-fi, you get a hail of hot lead from hardened combat troops, or Blackwater thugs? Are you prepared for that?

If you are, then by all means go, we will need your strength and passion. If not, make yourself ready before you go. Much like those who went to storm the Bastille, you may not be coming back.

As always, count the cost before you act, you may not be willing to pay.
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stolivodka Donating Member (411 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 07:51 PM
Response to Reply #111
197. Wow, sounds like a threat.
Edited on Tue Oct-21-08 07:53 PM by stolivodka
Does "give me liberty or give me death" mean anything to you?

Do you think that by proclaiming, in advance, that nothing would ever drive you to lay down your life for your freedom, people will think that you are a better or more moral person?

I'm trying to understand why you would utilize such intellectual terrorism on a progressive message forum.
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SidneyCarton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 07:59 PM
Response to Reply #197
199. I am asking if people have a plan if things go south.
It tends to help.
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mopinko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 10:39 AM
Response to Original message
112. THIS IS WHY BARACK IS PLANNING TO BE OUTSIDE, IN CHICAGO. IT WILL
start right here. he will not be in a hotel room with a small bunch of pols. he will be with his people. i predict there will be 100,000. the whole downtown will be filled. if they try to say lumpy grumpy has won, you are correct david, it will be a lie, and we will all know it.

i think that barack has seen through to the end game. i think that he knows that we will have to fight for his win. he wants there to be no doubt that the people will rise up. and believe me, we will. we will put him up on our shoulders, and start walking, if that is what it will take.
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knixphan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #112
124. Chi-town it is, then.
I'll fly there too. Wherever Barack is - if he needs us, I'm there.
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davidswanson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 09:43 PM
Response to Reply #112
224. AND
just to push this worst case scenario planning...

if he runs and hides under the covers with Kerry and Gore, we'll do it without him exactly as if he were there "leading" us
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mopinko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 11:45 PM
Response to Reply #224
233. that would be my plan. nt
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BanTheGOP Donating Member (596 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 10:44 AM
Response to Original message
114. This is WHY the republican party MUST be banned...
...because it is obvious...OBVIOUS!...that there is NO REASON WHATSOEVER that the republican party has ANY legal standing to exist as a political entity anymore. With the provable and documentable illegal activities going back to Goldwater, we have watched, in horror, an organization morph from a political party with a bad, bad message into the most destructive, insidious, and blatantly inhumane organization of criminals and despots in the HISTORY of the planet!

Bottom line: I can NOT RATIONALLY listen to ANY discourse put out by a republican source. I cannot even IMAGINE why we let them have any say in society.

When we take over the congress and the presidency, the FIRST order of business is to COMPLETELY CUT OFF all political discourse by the republican party, because it is NOT about politics, but about the need to steal from the vast majority of the people and transfer the wealth to the elite republicans. We MUST MAKE THIS JOB ONE!!

From THERE, we can indict, incarcerate, convict, and imprison every republican officer that we can get our hands on. Finally, we MUST INVALIDATE the republican party, the biggest disgrace in the HISTORY of the planet. We have enough diversity of thought within the Democratic, Socialist, Green, Peace and Freedom, and other progressive parties to ensure a rich, political exchange of ideas in its proper format.

BAN the republican party...NOW!!
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 12:24 PM
Response to Reply #114
127. Be careful what you wish for there, King Midas
A political party in unitary power inevitably falls to the temptation of massive corruption.
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BanTheGOP Donating Member (596 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #127
165. !!!!! What??
Normally, I'd laugh. I mean, does the obvious need to be stated? Yes it does.

The republican party is NOT...repeat...NOT... a political organization.

It is the VERY ESSENCE of the corruption that you will occur.

NEWS FLASH....it IS HERE!! And the only solution is to CREMATE THIS SCOURGE!

As far as being the only "political party"...

Agreed, there are many democrats whom are as rancid and as despicable as many republicans. BUT... we have OTHER parties whose ideas are idealogically different from democrats, such as Green, Socialist, Peace and Freedom, and other progressive-minded parties to GUARANTEE that there will NOT be any "unitary power."

AS is stands, there IS a unitary power NOW...and that is the republican party!

Unitary, that is, in its criminalized existence. Face it. If we had fair elections, and a fair society, the republican party wouldn't EVEN BE ON THE PLAYING FIELD.

Your analysis, while well intended, is actually indicative of the CURRENT status that we need to fix. NOW.

Destroy the republican party...and save this country, save this planet...NOW!
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 03:46 PM
Response to Reply #165
166. The Republican Party will be forced to reform itself
As it has done in the past. As the Democratic Party has done in the past.

The system is designed from the ground up as adversarial, with room for two and only two main parties. Third parties have been and will always be distractions.
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BanTheGOP Donating Member (596 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 04:44 PM
Response to Reply #166
175. Kinda hard for a murderer to "reform" itself...
As a matter of fact, the democratic party is probably the most diverse party out there. We span from the near-criminal element of Joe Lieberman, Zell Miller, and Hillary Clinton to the mainstream progressives like Barack Obama, Joe Biden, and Dennis Kucinich. Even Nancy Pelosi is a bit too nazi for my taste, but at least we have the gonads to allow such diversity as it allows us to fully vette out our positions.

But I can't think of ONE republican who is "salvageable." Virtually every one of them is guilty of what MOST citizens would get thrown into the slammer for a good, long stretch. So the PARTY must, necessarily, be banned for societal movement to progress with any real sense of clarity.

What you said, however, tends to ring true; that we as humans tend to clump into "we" vs. "they". Unfortunately, the "they" is not a political party at this point, but a group of criminals who are trying to do their best to KILL US and TAKE OUR MONEY. Yes, I said it...republicans only want THEMSELVES to be the masters of humanity.

But for TRUE democracy, we DO need to back off from this "we" vs "they" mentality, and instead of conflict, we need cooperation; instead of partisan fervor, we need multi-lateral acceptance and understanding and compromise. When THAT happens, we will have evolved beyond the need of a two party system, which is frankly what the republicans want to perpetuate to establish their need to exist.
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lutherj Donating Member (788 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-22-08 01:56 AM
Response to Reply #114
237. Woo Hoo!!! I like the way you think. I've thought about having a bumper sticker
made the reads:

Can we ban the GOP yet?
Or do they get to have a holocaust first?
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chapel hill dem Donating Member (212 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 11:13 AM
Response to Original message
119. They are trying to stop the election before Nov 4th with the lawsuits
challenging Obama's place of birth. Can you imagine if the 5-4 SCOTUS tries to postpone the election?

Then we really would see folks in DC!

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paparush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 11:25 AM
Response to Original message
120. Bush will shut down DC. The Interstate exits will be barriered and manned with armed guards.
Access into the city will be strictly limited to local residents (verified by id), and essential personnel only.

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petwlkr Donating Member (77 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 11:26 AM
Response to Original message
121. Agreed but....
...you have to be aware going in that Bush will turn any demonstrations into a bloody confrontation. He is already moving military units into position in anticipation.

Concerns about deployment of military on U.S. soil growing -- while mainstream media buries its head in the sand: Naomi Wolf


The following is the spin of military spokespeople in response to questions about the deployment of the First Brigade on US soil for the first time in over 200 years.


The Army Times initially reported that the First Brigade would handle domestic crowd control and subduing 'unruly individuals' and that they had 'lethal and nonlethal technologies' to do so. Then it issued a correction declaring that the 'nonlethal' package was not for domestic crowd control. Then after a hue and cry was raised by many citizens, Northern Command (NorthCom) offered a wholesale revision of their mission – and the mainstream media is eating it up. Here is an excerpt from the articled linked to in the previous sentence:






http://buzzflash.com/articles/contributors/1813

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gorfle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 11:30 AM
Response to Original message
122. The Second Amendment
This eventuality is precisely what the second amendment was enumerated to insure against.
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 12:27 PM
Response to Reply #122
129. True enough, but many among us are cock-sure that it's either obsolete or meant to preserve the .gov


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patriotvoice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 06:57 PM
Response to Reply #122
188. When armed citizens took back a stolen election: The Battle of Athens, Tennessee
On 2 August 1946, some Americans, brutalized by their county government, used armed force to overturn it. These Americans wanted honest, open elections. For years they had asked for state or Federal election monitors to prevent vote fraud -- forged ballots, secret ballot counts, and intimidation by armed sheriff's deputies -- by the local political boss. They got no help...

http://www.constitution.org/mil/tn/batathen.htm
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Truth2Tell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 12:43 PM
Response to Original message
132. K&R nt
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Truth2Tell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 12:43 PM
Response to Original message
133. dupe
Edited on Tue Oct-21-08 01:10 PM by Truth2Tell
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natrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 01:07 PM
Response to Original message
136. after what has gone on the last 10 years it's inconcievable that they won't steal it
unless obama is up 10
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hedgehog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 01:07 PM
Response to Original message
137. Relax, everyone, the Powers-that-Be have already decided that this
year they aren't going to fix the election:

Supreme Court rejects GOP bid to challenge voter registrations
David Edwards and Muriel Kane
Published: Friday October 17, 2008


In a closely-watched case involving disputed voter registrations, the US Supreme Court has overturned a ruling by a federal judge in Ohio that could have forced as many as 200,000 newly-registered voters whose information does not perfectly match that in social security or motor vehicle databases to cast provisional ballots.

http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Supreme_Court_rejects_GOP_bid_against_1017.html

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Overseas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 01:59 PM
Response to Reply #137
154. That is just one victory. But I share your wish that the GOP will let us have our choice
this time because they need Democrats to fix the economy and push us quickly into alternative energy development.

However, while I've delighted in the victories we've seen, there are other worrisome sightings-- vote flipping in some machines and some purging of voter rolls that was not stopped in time.

While I will continue to wish the Republicans will be curbing some of their vote manipulation this time because our country really needs help,

I am still thrilled to see threads like this one that plan ahead if Republicans continue to behave with reckless disregard for our country and people.

We need an avalanche to get our landslide.
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Divine Discontent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 01:27 PM
Response to Original message
140. Politico (I posted in GDP) is trying to say Obama supporters are too supportive
and skewing the results of polls!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

They are going to try and steal this folks.

I will send money to eastern folks to go and march (I'm way out West) to help them get there if they do not have the 50-100 for gas and will take a car load of people.

We MUST call every day all day the day after IF what we are concerned they have been working towards (as described by swanson above) with their meddling ways at trying to keep people from voting occurs.


Obama, with this type of lead and the brain dead/hate speech inspired losers McSame and Pain being such horrible candidates should win VA, PA and CO - that should close the deal - even with OH and FL going to McSame which I don't think Ohio will....


MORE AT www.cafepress.com/warisprofitable

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Overseas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 01:27 PM
Response to Original message
141. Let me just kick this again to keep it up there. //nt
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 01:30 PM
Response to Original message
143. I think we should be as vocal about our preparations as possible.
Edited on Tue Oct-21-08 01:55 PM by sfexpat2000
I want a thread here every day until the election with people comparing plane fares and bus routes, hotel locations or other kinds of crashpads.

I want everyone TO KNOW WITHOUT A DOUBT what we plan to do if our election is threatened IN THE LEAST LITTLE WAY by these treasonous bastards.
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Justyce Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #143
151. Totally agree. nt
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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 01:49 PM
Response to Original message
150. Learn from Mexico, Venezuela, and Ukraine
Those folks know how to protest oligarchs, even though the Mexican protests weren't successful, but still, it was great to see them put up a fight.
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Stand and Fight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 01:54 PM
Response to Original message
152. I live in Northern Virginia -- not far from the capital.
If this happens -- and since NOVA is commie country -- some folks are welcome to stay at my place.
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Faygo Kid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 02:07 PM
Response to Original message
155. Two weeks. Two damned strange weeks.
Two of the biggest weeks of my 57 year lifetime.
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sickinohio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 04:15 PM
Response to Reply #155
172. My 55-year lifetime.
I'm ready to go if need be.
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adadem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 02:27 PM
Response to Original message
158. Does anyone remember VoterMarch??
Thousands upon thousands of us stood up to the thugs on January 20, 2001.
If I recall correctly this board grew out of that movement.

They did it in Ohio in 2004 and they will do it again this year.

We need volunteers with video cameras outside polling places to record the
statements from voters of vote flips and disenfranchisement at it happens...


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think4yourself Donating Member (422 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 03:05 PM
Response to Original message
160. Anyone need a ride from Atlanta?
I am filled with hope that this is a landslide. that's what the OP was about. The simple numbers show that there are more registered Dems that Repugs. The fact that we even have to have this discussion is proof that America is in dire need of revolution. We are talking about ELECTION FRAUD. Surely you can see the importance of this message. We have to be ready. And y'all who are worried about the military, PLEASE. We would all be lost if our Founding Fathers were afraid of an overwhelming, organized military with better guns.
I'm there if necessary.
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sarcasmo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 03:24 PM
Response to Original message
162. The GOP already have their lawyers in place, I fully expect a theft.
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LanternWaste Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 03:54 PM
Response to Original message
169. Insert your righteous indignation and trendy militant slogans here....
DU or the Rapture Ready board? Getting tough to tell these days.

Bookmarking to laugh at on a chilly January morning as Pres. Obama is sworn in...
(Insert your righteous indignation and trendy militant slogans here....)
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Two Americas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #169
173. ok, I will, thanks
Here is my slogan. It comes from FDR, so it may not be "trendy."

"But the resolute enemy within our gates is ever ready to beat down our words unless in greater courage we will fight for them."

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zeemike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 05:01 PM
Response to Original message
177. If that happens then I will be on strike.
So I might as well go to Washington. Might have to hitch hike but I will get there.
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 05:03 PM
Response to Original message
178. I was out in the streets after Nov 2, 2004 looking for the rest of ya.
:patriot: I will be there again, if need be

I think it would behoove folks to set aside some provisions. It never hurts knowing a cold winter is expected anyway and who knows if some "flu" might keep us all inside for an extended period. Never hurts to prepare.
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petgoat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 06:10 PM
Response to Reply #178
183. I was in shock, waiting for someone to make the call.
Kerry's round heels cost him my few remaining shreds of respect for him.

I have mixed feelings about all this. Travel to DC will consume resources
a lot of people might use more effectively at home.

Civil disorder make an excuse to declare martial law and label election
integrity activists as terrorists.

We're damned if we do and damned if we don't.
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stolivodka Donating Member (411 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 07:58 PM
Response to Reply #183
198. If QQing on the internet equaled practical political power..
..the US would be the most liberal country on Earth. Fact is, liberals used direct action to great effect in the 1960s to bring about great changes to America. Far too many today waste their efforts comparing e-peens and playing "who is the most progressive" on the internet.
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Vattel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 05:13 PM
Response to Original message
179. I've got 100 bucks that says Obama will win.
I think the GOP only has voter suppression up its sleeve and that that won't be good enough to stop an Obama win. But I've been wrong before.
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valerief Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 05:44 PM
Response to Original message
182. They won't successfully steal the presidency, but they WILL steal Congress. Again. nt
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2 Much Tribulation Donating Member (522 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 06:24 PM
Response to Original message
184. Eternal Vigilance the price of Liberty: Be Prepared
Timeless Message.
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 06:48 PM
Response to Original message
185. Whether People Want to Believe This or Not...
people should be working hard to prevent a theft of an election.
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-22-08 05:33 AM
Response to Reply #185
240. What do you suggest?
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Batgirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 06:57 PM
Response to Original message
189. If necessary, yes, we have to stand up this time.
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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 07:16 PM
Response to Original message
191. Thomas Jefferson and the Constitution REQUIRES that action be taken. nm
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Top Cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 08:02 PM
Response to Original message
200. McCain will be president when Hell freezes over.......
I think we should take to the streets in America and demand a reversal because he stole the election. We will win
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Greenham hope Donating Member (1 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 08:32 PM
Response to Original message
202. Beware setting up a 'really radical' gold-standard for Action Men
David, I admire your long hard work and now your courage. Going prepared with earmuffs, etc is all very well, but have you reflected on the certainty of 'false flag crowd violence' aka agent provocateurs who will surely be deployed to throw stuff at police and thus 'justify' a seriously violent police reaction. I can't see Washington allowing people to camp there for a month in huge numbers as happened after the stolen Mexican election.

But suppose it is just women and seniors over 70 in the front lines = within throwing distance? Then it would cost the system a lot more to be seen to be dispersing the people with violence. And maybe some troops/police would be liable to break ranks and not obey illegal orders to visit violence on peaceful citizens exercising their constitutional rights.

But how can women and the elders raise this sort of moral authority, keep the machos from regrouping and causing trouble somewhere else, which just happens to get the press attention ....?

My guess (I live in Scotland!) is that it will maybe make most difference if resistance wasn't centralised in Washington, or at least not over-centralised there. Just as the election integrity movement is coming up with a whole series of actions 'ordinary people' can take to minimise the risk of election theft, so too there needs needs to be a whole series of kinds of follow-through action which people can take if election theft ocurs anyway (as is very likely, indeed is happening already), so that parents with kids and young people and and people in wheelchairs, etc don't feel further disempowered because they can't meet the 'truly radical goldstandard' David is at risk of propagating.

That means identifying a whole series of locations in every State, and every city/town/neighbourhood where people can manifest resistance, down to just wearing a badge every day until the fix is overturned or by displaying a poster or burning a candle for democracy in their windows for as long as it takes. My sense is that though parks are good, often primary schools could be the venue where mothers and children and grandparents etc could make the greatest impact, just entering them with sleeping gear and food and refusing to leave until ....whatever ... e.g. the election is re-run on paper and without massive voter-disenfranchment.

A modern day Secession of the Plebs - everything stops until the junta is forced to give way, normal life is suspended, but without being suckered into centralised set-piece 'confrontations which the Bush regime can successfully present to the troops/police and through the Media as 'dangerous anarchy'/terrorism, etc.

Maybe the greatest likelihood of being able to raise an alternative principle of societal authority to the reigning institutional form - male brotherhoods/maledominated crowds/fraternites, etc - is the women-led mixed formula, with 'Real Men' kept out but such 'true son' allies as are vouched for and/or found trustworthy and useful be on occasion(s) blended judiciously into the mix of events planned by Mothes/Crones, provided they sign agreements concerning a) nonviolence, b) readiness to leave if asked by women-led or women-only organising committees, etc.

Keeeping control of the (ahem) 'Real men' (who aren't authentic) and only allowing the 'support'/participation of glad to be 'unreal' men such as e.g. elders of the tribe or males with disabilities/in wheelchairs or 'true sons' with kids on shoulders or males with flowers in hair dressed in soft cuddly pink stuff - all these could be relevent rules of thumb for women-led movements to integrate males into 'new motherland' events, thus to acheive further synergy of moral authority beyond the synergy which comes from manifesting diversity through spontaneous or strategically organised intergenerational, multi-ethnic, multi-party, multi-faith, gay-straight, etc etc deployments.

It is good people are thinking ahead. Remember guys - don't interrupt women, don't dominate the conversation, don't ignore what black people are saying (as has too often happened, e.g. Gore's strategy in Florida).

Obama himself may perhaps want to 'throw' this election like Gore and Kerry, but the people may not let him. They aren't his votes to concede/allow not to be counted.


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davidswanson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 09:53 PM
Response to Reply #202
227. we have to remember that
none of this may be needed, and that would be a good thing

all of this may very well be needed

if it is needed, there is only one way we can possibly win:

we have to be openly, loudly, consistently nonviolent

provocateurs should stand out like sore thumbs and be disciplined by us

we should suffer violent attacks and stand up smiling -- THAT's what scares them, THAT's how we win, by taking their first blows and showing absolutely no fear

this is serious. read your Gene Sharp. Bring your hat, scarf, mittens, and all the courage ever seen in human history. no sunshine patriots. no summer soldiers.

predictions that they will fight are right. proposals that we use violence will destroy everything we hope for.
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FKA MNChimpH8R Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 08:58 PM
Response to Original message
206. Think on the peaceful revolution at the end of V for Vendetta. The masses
simply stand up.
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davidswanson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 10:29 PM
Response to Reply #206
231. i agree with your message
but why point to a movie that actualy focused on violence when you can point to the real world?

everyone, please read or watch "A Force More Powerful"

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Geek_Girl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 09:09 PM
Response to Original message
208. Not to mention the 10's thousands of voter registrations that are being purged
Edited on Tue Oct-21-08 09:09 PM by Geek_Girl
I'm starting to think that this may happen.
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solanus Donating Member (54 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 09:12 PM
Response to Original message
209. going to D.C.
:patriot: I hope we can all get buses to take us there I live many miles away but I would be willing to go got to stand up sometime
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Zephyr_Wind Donating Member (18 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 10:11 PM
Response to Original message
230. I Agree With Petgoat
If we have another theft and then a march on DC, that may well be the "justification" for Bush & Co. to declare martial law. Don't forget .. the First Brigade or something like that has already been deployed to "maintain peace" just in case. Let's face it folks, our Constitution has been nulled and voided. This is no longer the America of old. Freedom of Speech is something long gone.

I just asked a friend this evening (we were protesting at the 1st "inauguration") if we were going to DC if another theft occurs. He said yes, but along with me, has reservations about the consequences. I'm just a little old lady who never dreamed I would witness the death throes of my country. I'm just sick about everything that has occurred in the last 8 years. I so desperately want to do something .. but experience and age makes you think about consequences, looking before you leap. I can remember when I was younger and consequences were way down on the list of important things.

I have to ask myself, what the ultimate effect martial law would have upon this country if it occurred.

ZW
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davidswanson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 10:32 PM
Response to Reply #230
232. they threatened congress members
with martial law and they voted for Paulson's Plunder

if they threaten us with it (or you do it for them) we ain't backing down an inch

they don't need martial law for sheep, they can just use fences and knives

they need martial law for men and women, but it is nowhere near approaching the power of massive disciplined fearless nonviolence

FDR was right about what we have to fear
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stolivodka Donating Member (411 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 11:51 PM
Response to Reply #230
234. Bah, you boomers always cared too much about "consequences"
not enough about principles. Go off to your old folks home and quit demeaning those of better generations who are willing to take our ideals beyond having lots of parties and smoking lots of pot. If you can, try to remember what it was like to believe in something and join us. If not, whatever. Good luck.
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ChiciB1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-22-08 01:42 AM
Response to Original message
235. It's About TIME!! If I Can Scrape Up Enough Money... I'm In.... FIRST We
in Sarasota County will have to do BATTLE down here with KATHY DENT... current Supervisor of Elections! We have notified all we know to call her office to put her on notice! She has the ONLY combination to THE VAULT that holds the Absentee Ballots AND she's running for Re-Election!!

This should NOT BE PERMITTED!! We need anyone in this area to call her office now and OFTEN!! We will storm the place if needed! SHE WILL NOT throw ANOTHER election in this county!! The county that says there was an "under-vote" in 2006 and 18,500 votes went missing. Since 2000 we've had trouble each and EVERY TIME an election has been held.... Always some excuse, but mostly machines are having problems!

Now it seems SHE has the combination to the vault!! Wonder how many votes she can throw out THIS TIME!!

Our anger knows NO BOUNDS this time! Anyone, and I mean ANYONE who can join us... PLEASE, PLEASE PM me!!

Thanks!! The more the MERRIER, SHE MUST GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!
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garybeck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-22-08 01:53 AM
Response to Original message
236. All Aboard the Solar Bus to DC
From Northern Vermont, to all points south en route to Washington DC.
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davidswanson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-22-08 06:36 AM
Response to Reply #236
241. Right on!
And if this isn't needed, we're planning some events for the time of Obama's inauguration -- lobbying, not resisting -- so start thiking in terms of January.
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garybeck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-23-08 12:36 AM
Response to Reply #241
244. Solar Bus
Hi David

I'm thinking I will take the bus down to DC, either to celebrate in January or to protest in November. I'm hoping it's January.

In either case, i'll let you know that if I do bring the bus, it is loaded with things that could be useful. I have lots of solar energy on board for people to charge cell phones, video cameras, laptops, etc, while electricity might otherwise not be readily available. I also have a solar stage and PA on board which can be used to address large crowds (although my 1,000 watt amp might not be enough for a million people!). I'm obviously nervous about bringing the bus down there into a scene of chaos which could get ugly but i feel a need in my gut to be there and bringing the bus just seems logical at this point.

i'm a little worried now that if it is stolen, they're going to successfully conceal it again. the media is now reporting the race is getting closer and obama's lead is shrinking. i don't believe that, but it indicates the media is prepping us, so people aren't too surprised if mccain wins. so it might be hard to get a lot of people off their butts and to DC when the media has lulled them to sleep again.

but let's not get ahead of ourselves. i'm still hoping there's no need to protest on the 5th, and i'd rather not put too much energy into planning for it just yet, because I believe we create our reality. so for now, let's hope for a celebration, but keep in mind if that's not the case, i might come down with my bus and make it as useful as possible.

i really appreciate all you do.

be safe.
gary
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Land Shark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-22-08 08:44 AM
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242. kick; don't spread fear spread truth (nov 4, or later) nt
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