Three Cheers for Socialism!

Barack Obama's sure as hell no socialist, but I most assuredly am. How about you? One of the proudest days of my life was the day I became a dues-paying Wobbly. As far as I'm concerned, in a sane world's U.S. presidential election, Barack Obama would be the conservative candidate while his main opponent would be a dark green socialist. Any remaining Republicans, meanwhile, would be in prison.

So comrades, come rally,
And the last fight let us face.
The Internationale,
Unites the human race.
So comrades, come rally,
And the last fight let us face.
The Internationale,
Unites the human race.

The Internationale in 40+ Languages

Workers of the world unite! You have nothing to lose but your chains!

:sarcasm:

The American Public School System

While I am very liberal and support Obama 100%, I know this country was founded on capitalist virtues and it should stay that way. An unregulated free-markets are a problem, but no free-market is also a problem too.

With that said, I have no problem with you or any other socialist. You're entitled to your way of thinking, as am I.

then it must be true.

good on you for accepting others opinions tho , real big of ya.

Because I'm not in favor of Soviet- or Maoist-style communism. Absolutely (so to speak) not.

On the other hand, you obviously favor well-regulated markets rather than the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laissez-faire">laissez-faire capitalism one finds in Charles Dickens' novels. And shouldn't the public have, at the very least, some control over anything directly related to basic survival and the public good -- say, the availability and relative purity of water?

How about a "mixed" economy such as one might find in Scandinavian countries?

You should recall that "capitalism" and "free markets" are different things. "Free markets" is the familiar structure of private property rights and free exchange. "Capitalism", on the other hand, is a social order where, to oversimplify somewhat, capital and the means of production are in the hands of one part of society, upon which the other part is dependent by virtue of this fact.

The Jeffersonian trend in American politics was pro-free market, but more or less anti-capitalist. It envisioned an economy where the ownership of the means of production was widely distributed, where most people were small farmers who owned (privately) the land they worked on, and thus were not subordinated to a landowner or to a capitalist. Naturally enough, they were suspicious of government intervention as well, on reasonable grounds of protecting individual autonomy.

This framework, however, collapsed with the emergence of industrialization, which required heavy capital concentration that demolished any hope of small owners playing a vital part in the economy. It came to be, as Marx pointed out, that private property in the means of production ceased to be a way of protecting individual autonomy and maintaining the product of labor, but rather a way of exploiting others and depriving them of freedom.

Socialism, then, is perfectly in line with at least one of our national political traditions, at least as implemented in modern conditions. Capitalism, where most people work for others as wage-labor, is certainly hostile to much of that which is worthy in early American political ideals. As late as Lincoln we see the notion that working for an employer should be a temporary, transitory thing, on the road toward achieving enough capital for self-employment. But that is evidently not the case in our present societies.

And I like your avatar. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Wollstonecraft">Mary_Wollstonecraft is a lefty icon if ever one existed and those among us who are currently unfamiliar with her might be very pleased to make her online acquaintance.

Such is the nature of human beings.

The land was taken from Native Americans and redistributed to white people.

The American Revolution was in resistance to domination by the British Crown corporations. How is that abo0ut "capitalist virtues?" Where is capitalism mentioned at all in the founding documents?

Isn't that an oxymoron?

Unless, of course, they have broken some law currently on the books.

No, but sometimes I wonder what America would be like if Democrats were considered Conservative and Republicans were looked upon as a lunatic fringe - kind of like socialists are now.

The entire Bush administration probably belongs in prison.

workers unite!


as a socialist, i was kinda insulted at obama being called one ;)


p.s. i dont believe in imprisoning the opposition...minus the administration in power right now...

I consider them to be criminally insane. You might be able to persuade me that some could benefit from many years of therapy rather than prison, but I'm inclined to believe that lots of them -- maybe most -- are utterly incorrigible and that decent civilization is not possible so long as millions of them are running around loose.

I have a few Wobbly friends--All musicians and artist. Democrats are known as the big tent party. At least here in Minnesota where we don't have just the Democratic party. we have the Democratic Farmer-Labor party (though I admit we need more of the Farmer-Labor representation of late.) I think all of us self professed Marxists/socialist/ small 'c' communists/progressives/greens, and such can find a voice right here on DU:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=395

Heya Comrades! greetings to all if you are Democrat, D-S, or just garden variety Socialists.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GXtkAJOZ1s

What's wrong with having most of the wealth in the hands of just a few? Because that way most of us are all alike - poor and in financial slavery.

And then we can all sit back and watch the rich have fun as we dream of being rich. People need dreams.

At least in modern parlance. Even though I'm pretty much a fiscal moderate. But what the hell. I'll join in. :)

Not too thrilled with the idea of busting my ass so someone else can benefeit.

I'm all about helping out my fellow man so they can get a leg up and make a good go at the great opportunity being an American gives them, but give up most of what I have earned so some lazy fucker can get a free ride?

No thanks.

Nobody is suggesting that you "give up most of what I have earned so some lazy fucker can get a free ride." I said nothing of the sort, nor would I, nor would any socialist I've ever known over the course of a relatively long life.

And while I won't reciprocate by calling you a nasty name or aiming hostility at you, I might politely suggest that what you're objecting to is the right's caricature of socialism rather than the actual phenomenon as it's actually been practiced (or at least attempted) in places such as Scandinavia or Chile under Salvador Allende.

who do you think you're fooling?

you make over $450K gross? that's what it takes to get a tax increase, if you're married

'jackass'

No one bashed the Democratic party or the center-left here.
No need for these untrue comments from hate-radio, and for that matter why even bring that stuff in here?

Why Socialism? By Albert Einstein
Noam Chomsky: Government In The Future 1
Noam Chomsky: Government In The Future 2

Are good places to start. Or just Wiki.

That little diatribe could have come straight out of Limbaugh or Hannity.

Good luck with that attitude here at DU.

I find that I am more of a Socialist then I had once thought.

I think that term has become about as loosely applied as "Nazi" anymore. I've only encountered a few viewpoints that have truly frightened me and struck me as something that Orwell would have written about. But again, that's rare. I think most folks here are simply egalitarians, and I find very little wrong with that, at least when applied properly. :)

right alongside this fellow:

Moving, thought-provoking and much closer to reality than a Jesus looking like a young Peter O'Toole with facial hair.

as a fellow socialist, you'd find it most amusing

starring Peter OToole, who believes he's Jesus, returning to take his father's place in the House of Lords

opening scene in the movie is classic

It's one of my favorites.

On an extremely tangentially related note, I saw a classic this afternoon I'd never seen before: Kiss Me Kate. Keenan Wynn's and James Whitmore's "Brush Up Your Shakespeare" made the whole, badly dated film worth the while. And while Harry Truman was no more a socialist than is Barack Obama, I do find some aspects of Truman's bio quite admirable, and I love the job Whitmore did in his one-man show, Give 'Em Hell, Harry. BTW, Whitmore's still with us last I heard -- even did a promo for Obama, god bless him. </free association>

my HS English class went to Chicago Theater to see Taming of the Shrew, with Taylor and Burton

that was interesting. we had to memorize a soliloquy from one of the plays that year

Thanks for sharing it.

He spoke very favorably of the left-wing anarchist social revolution in Catalonia.

Conspicuous consumers, money hoarders and war mongers should be ashamed of themselves. But I'm just an unreasonable tree-hugger so whatever I think doesn't matter! I'll just go on being disappointed in my species every day long as I live, ignore my opinion. At least I'm allowed to vote!

anti-socialists have no place in society; they're predators.

a balance of socialist and capitalist ideas is the best way to run a country.
I don't consider myself a socialist though.

Social democracy, Christian Democracy, etc., all have socialist roots. Capitalism today has subsumed many of the demands raised in the manifesto way back in 1848. I think there's no Chinese wall separating socialism and capitalism - they can coexist within a single framework. I do not think that backward people belong in prison unless they are infringing upon people's rights, however. I definitely agree that I would prefer that Obama were the "conservative candidate" in the contact of the US political spectrum.

I'm an egalitarian, but I don't believe that a fetish for "work" and "production" need to be at the center of society. I'm for access to a decent and dignified life for every citizen without qualification.

...I don't believe that a fetish for "work" and "production" need to be at the center of society.

One rarely reads such a thing around these parts. :)

:thumbsup:

But it's one of my personal pet issues, so I like to provide this perspective whenever I can.

The "work ethic" is vastly overrated. What we really need is a "people ethic."

To hell with ism's.