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And a SECOND WITNESS says NOT forgeries;

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LynnTheDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-04 09:39 AM
Original message
And a SECOND WITNESS says NOT forgeries;
bush's CO Hodges said the documents were consistant with what Killian was writing & saying at the time and believes they're genuine.

That's one.

Robert Strong was a friend and colleague of Killian who ran the Texas Air National Guard administrative office in the Vietnam era. Strong, now a college professor, also believes the documents are genuine.

"They are compatible with the way business was done at the time. They are compatible with the man that I remember Jerry Killian being," says Strong. "I don't see anything in the documents that is discordant with what were the times, what was the situation and what were the people involved."

http://cbsnewyork.com/topstories/topstories_story_254080625.html

That's two.

Why can't bushCartel find ONE SINGLE PERSON who says they saw bush show up?
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The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-04 09:41 AM
Response to Original message
1. This Is Real Evidence, Ma'am
The charges of forgery are mere vapor, emmitted without access to the original documents....

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"
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Karmadillo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-04 10:10 AM
Response to Reply #1
6. Exactly. It will be interesting to see if the media is as willing to
Edited on Fri Sep-10-04 10:10 AM by Karmadillo
spend as much time reaffirming the authenticity of the documents as it's spent passing on the stories of the "debunkers".
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2Design Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-04 09:49 AM
Response to Original message
2. amazing how bushCo can get the subject changed so easily
instead of the content we are on to what balls were used.
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-04 09:52 AM
Response to Original message
3. All of the documentation is with us on this
as opposed to the Swiftliars and their undocumented distortions.

"Why can't bushCartel find ONE SINGLE PERSON who says they saw bush show up?"

Instead of a band of brothers Bush has attracted a band of liars. Typical.
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Frances Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-04 09:55 AM
Response to Original message
4. I think the White House itself released a document that said
Bush did not take the physical AS ORDERED the same night that the CBS Dan Rather interview took place.

Was the White House info also fake?

More importantly, is Bush himself a fake?

Maybe Bush is really a robot and not a person. That would explain why he walks so funny. It would also explain why he "misspeaks" so often.
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EST Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-04 10:07 AM
Response to Original message
5. Score=Lions4, Christians2
Edited on Fri Sep-10-04 10:09 AM by RevRussel
Truth will win, but not without a fight!
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hexola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-04 10:10 AM
Response to Original message
7. More spin...he said "he believes they are genuine" - meaningless!!!
Translation - "it sounds like the kind of stuff Killian used to say..."

How the HELL does that testify to the documents authenticity???
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LynnTheDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-04 10:19 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. Hmmm
Maybe coz handwriting and typewriter experts WHO SAW THE ORIGINALS say they're GENUINE???

Maybe coz the so-called independant experts who have already been proved WRONG about proportional spacing and WRONG about superscripted letters and WRONG about the USAF not having IBMs that could do both at that time have NOT SEEN THE ORIGINALS???

Maybe coz Killian's CO and the man who was in charge of the administration AT THE TIME have BOTH said Killian WAS saying exactly what the documents say???
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The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-04 10:22 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. Indeed, Ma'am
The statements of persons who knew the man at the time the documents are dated is real evidence.

The statements of persons who have not examined the original documents is not evidence.

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"
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yellowcanine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-04 10:20 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. It is as good as his wife saying he didn't talk that way and didn't type!
The guy brought his memos home for his wife to read? How does she know how he worded memos at work? And there wasn't a peon around to do a little typing? Who typed all of the bullshit forms that is a part of any military unit?
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The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-04 10:25 AM
Response to Reply #9
12. Beyond That, Sir
The widow is a dyed in the wool Republican, and naturally eager to minimize any damage to the candidate she whole-heartedly supports, particularly any damage that might be done by her husband's actions.

A man on trial whose only alibi is his wife's statements is in dire danger of convicrion....

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"
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against all enemies Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-04 10:22 AM
Response to Original message
11. Republicans announce "witnesses are forgeries", reports CNN.
Only fucking with you, but that's how it works. The pukes tell you black is white and the networks tell you how white it is. Jon Stewart, America's foremost newsman. God, remember Walter Cronkite, he puts these assholes to shame.
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librechik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-04 10:27 AM
Response to Reply #11
13. Republicans charge facts are biased
demand rollback of standards of reality
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quaoar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-04 10:30 AM
Response to Original message
14. Yes, but...
that CBS story also had this:

The personnel chief in Killian's unit at the time also said he believes the documents are fake.

"They looked to me like forgeries," said Rufus Martin. "I don't think Killian would do that, and I knew him for 17 years." Killian died in 1984.

Independent document examiner Sandra Ramsey Lines said the memos looked like they had been produced on a computer using Microsoft Word software. Lines, a document expert and fellow of the American Academy of Forensic Sciences, pointed to a superscript — a smaller, raised "th" in "111th Fighter Interceptor Squadron" — as evidence indicating forgery.

Microsoft Word automatically inserts superscripts in the same style as the two on the memos obtained by CBS, she said.

"I'm virtually certain these were computer generated," Lines said after reviewing copies of the documents at her office in Paradise Valley, Ariz. She produced a nearly identical document using her computer's Microsoft Word software.

I think the die is cast with the media on this one. Even if 10 witnesses step forward, it will always be reported as "questions about their authenticity have been raised."

But it does open the whole issue up to further scrutiny. In fact, it compels further scrutiny, which is why I don't believe Rove engineered this. he's not that stupid.
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girl gone mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-04 10:36 AM
Response to Reply #14
17. Sandra Ramsey Lines is a partisan Republican..
I don't have the links handy (they are in my thread of compiled evidence that the documents are real), but she has contributed significant amounts of money to GOP causes and candidates, none to Dems.
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quaoar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-04 10:53 AM
Response to Reply #17
18. Yes, but...
They'll just find someone else.

My point was that the Republicans have thrown enough mud into the water on this that it's never going to be clear. It will always be referred to as "questioned."

But, the good news is that this makes the whole Guard documents issue into a feeding frenzy and there is no telling what cockroaches will come scurrying out of the woodwork or be dragged out now.
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Bush was AWOL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-04 10:33 AM
Response to Original message
15. Where is the article about Hodges?
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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-04 10:34 AM
Response to Original message
16. CBS should have him and Hodges on Sunday
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