Bill Maher - The Elephant in the room is RELIGION - Why Prop 8 passed.

I believe that Bill Maher attacks religion unfairly most of the time, however, on this topic he is on point. The fear of Homosexuals getting married is rooted in the bigotry of the church. It is not about race or specifically the Mormon church. Religion itself has been against homosexuality from the beginning. I am sure it was for procreation reasons when this first began, however, we no longer have a population issue.

I know that this will be a non issue in 4 to 8 years. The youth vote is going to overwhelm the bigoted fear by the older generations. People under 30 do not have the same feelings about gay marriage. The new group of voters will redefine the United States.

attacks. Obama has had such a huge success due to his ability not to alienate people on both sides of the aisle. If we are to bring along religious moderates to the gay marriage side, it certainly won't be with harsh religious attacks. I believe that the youth vote will make this issue obsolete, however, it is always better when you can get the moderates to meet you in the middle.

When he attacks, he is right on point.

For me, debating my religious/spiritual beliefs would be like inviting a panel to debate the specific nuances of the smell of my husband's neck.

Or how I feel about tater tots. Or how my heart feels when I look at my garden.

It's not that it's all visceral/emotional, it's not that there's no thinking involved, there certainly is! But it's so intensely personal and causes no one any harm, including myself, so who cares what I believe or don't believe?

In general he's too obsessed with religion and it gets old for me. Harping against religion is not going to change any of those religious people's mind.

You will not shame them to change their mind just like no one here would be shamed into becoming a Republican.

trying to balance things out. Most of us go along to get along but it's time to stop giving people a free ride on the religion thing. That's what's old for me.

Going along all the time is not going to change people's minds either.

He uses every opportunity on his show to bash religion even when they aren't even talking about it. He talks more about religion than people on his show. We have a difference of opinion.

The people who bank-rolled Prop 8 had commercial after ridiculous commercial essentially telling people that if Prop 8 passed, all the kids in California would turn gay.

The people against Prop 8 didn't run a counter-campaign. Instead, they just assumed the people of California would vote against it. It was a bad move.

And no, I don't think Maher unfairly attacks religion. It just seems that way because he always comes off as a condescending prick. Being "tolerant" of religion causes all rationale discourse about just how dangerous and absurd it is to cease to exist. Imagine if we decided to be tolerant of the bigots who voted for Prop 8?

You think there was no organized oppostiion to 8 and blame the gay folk for it passing, while also thinking we should let the religious folks speak without counter. Try to understand, being tolerent of bigotry is itself bigotry. What you offer is to stand with them. If we were silently aquiescent to the bigots, they would simply want more control and more power. They seek theocracy, and you would fold to them.
This is politics in the guise of religion, which is to say a fraud. Maher is dead on accurate as well as hilarious. Condescneding is when you try to lecture others about how to carry themselves instead of just doing as you see fit for yourself.

homosexuals than women are.

Religion or not there will always be a large element of conservative people who desire an authoritarian govt. and are resistant to change. Is it possible these people are attracted to the conservative teachings of religion, rather than the teachings governing their behavior?

My sister protested at Orange county's Saddleback church yesterday. She told me they received some honks of support from younger church members as they left services. It seems the congregation itself isn't unanimous on this issue. I strongly suspect this is not a plus issue for pastor Warren-dividing his congregation, reducing interest among younger people, etc. In the next few days I am going to write him a strongly worded letter indicating I would not be interested in attending his church and suggesting he spend a lot more time studying homosexuality before supporting elimination of marriage rights.

The electoral spread on prop 8 was 4-5%. Five out of a hundred people in CA. need to have a change of heart :) Demographic changes based on age should help, education re: gay is not a choice (too many people still believe that), and continued protests and visibility all should help on this issue.

Same-sex marriages. There's a book written by Yale historian John Boswell called Same-Sex Unions in Pre-Modern Europe that talks about that as well as other same-sex unions (as he refers to them).

http://tinyurl.com/6agc52

even Christian, who are not against gay marriage? And even those who support it?

I'm being firewalled, but there was a columnist in the Salt Lake City Tribune who wrote of his support of gay marriage and he was bombarded with hate mail (he's Mormon, too, admittedly a rarity for that position).

I know we might seem to be a minority, but I know a lot of people with religious beliefs who support gay rights, including marriage rights. My UU church marries gay couples.

Religion is a farce across the board, but of those who choose to be deluded there is a spectrum of belief. I would argue that those who are religious and not anti-gay are probably not fundamentalists and can see the Bible for what it is...a book of parables.

J

and not taking every word of the Bible literally. You know, fundies really aren't a majority of religious folks. They are just but a minority. They've just been squawking awfully loudly for the past however many years.

And thanks for calling me deluded, LOL. I guess that's better than urging me to get mental health help, which one lovely atheist did a few years back. Just for the record, my teenage daughter is an atheist. I taught her what I believe, then taught her to decide for herself what she wants to believe or not believe. And I'm absolutely fine with that.

Sometimes, between fundies yelling at me that I'm not a real Christian and anti-religious people calling me deluded, crazy, etc, it's almost not even worth discussing this topic.

I'm not the sort to say that religion is a scourge upon humanity, but I do believe that if our society is to evolve and better ourselves we need to minimize a system of beliefs (religion) that tend to highlight our differences.

Deluded can be useful at times, so it's not like being "crazy." For some religion is an adaptive response to the vicissitudes of life...I can understand that.

J

...unless you imprison, silence and/or kill the followers of said religion.

You cannot talk them out of it, reason with them, or convince them to quit.

If getting rid of religion is what you really want, forced silence is the ONLY answer.

And, I daresay...there is NO ONE HERE who is willing to go THAT far.

Religion should evolve to the 20th century, instead of being locked to book that was written during a much different time. Our global community is so interconnected that we should be merging the best of all religions to include everyone. As it stands now, religion is parallel to racism. One is religion is not above another. Maybe when we stop wanting to belong to the right group we will come together as a a global society.

I'd be down with that.