Who else around here is old enuf to remember the LAST Detroit bailout?

I don't remember when it was, but I remember a big bailout of Chrysler years ago. The economy done the company wrong...blah blah blah.

Before the bailout, all Americans had noticed that the Japanese car makers had made huge inroads into the American consumer market. I myself bought a Datsun, and lots of other people bought other foreign made vehicles. The reason why was because they were more reliable, got better gas mileage, and were still reasonably priced.

I remember the discussions about the Japanese auto makers causing American auto makers problems way back in the 1970's.

So Chrysler (who is one of the ones with its hand out now, asking for money) has had decades to change its business plan, turn things around, and present cars for the American public to buy. But it FAILED to learn the lessons of the past, except that THE GOVERNMENT WILL BAIL US OUT even if our business goes belly up.

They fought increasing mpg standards (even though they have the technology right now to institute those higher standards-don't believe the BS about how much R&D it would take). Don't believe the hype that it's the unions that are causing them problems.

The American car makers haven't learned from the past. And the American public kept buying the Hummers and the oversized SUVs. If we bail them out now, there is no reason to think that they won't continue their bad business management and will be back at our table in another couple of decades asking us to fund their bad business policies (while the head of GM scoffs at the idea of global warming).

Still...one out of 10 jobs in the US is tied to the auto industry, I heard.

The answer may be....give 'em some money, BUT tie some heavy duty strings to it. When you give someone money, that gives you the right to question their spending habits and business management. Make them become lean, produce fewer models, with at least some 50 mpg models, not allow them to produce any 10 mpg models any longer, limit the corporate officers' pay to link to profits, etc.

If our govt just hands $$$ to Detroit with no stiff strings, I'll be mucho pissed off. Business as usual.

They paid it back.

and our tax dollars went to fund their bad business policies INSTEAD of going to education or veteran's benefits or another worthy cause.

Funding bad business policies merely encourages more bad business policies.

Seems to me with this big gap in your knowledge, you're tossing around admonitions to "learn from history" fairly liberally.

And the government made money on the interest paid. Iacocca was in charge there then and turned them around at the time.

The workers took a big pay cut and the guy at the top took $0 in wages until it was paid off. This was before GREED ruled the land.

It's a LOAN to help our auto-makers retool their factories to make eco-friendly cars.

What part of "strings" do so many on this board not understand?

requirement to force them to make eco-friendly cars.

So far...there is only talk about a bailout, whether that should or should not be done. With requests that there be some sort of strings.

That's all.

and they did pay it back in a timely fashion.

This time though, the auto manufacturers just want a handout like the Wall street welfare queens have gotten. They sure do not want any more regulations like being forced to produce more fuel efficient cars. They do not want anyone watching what they do so that they do not have to begin facing the reality of their part in CO2 emissions.

I would like to see some serious strings attached to any money given to them and we need to get some strings on those welfare queens on Wall street too.

Wall Street shakers.

The auto industry directly or indirectly effects 3 to 4 million workers.

However, you are absolutely wrong on the emissions control issue. The loan last month, for example, was given with the STRING that it was to re-tool their factories to make eco-friendly cars.

tied to a future loan/bailout, or even a decision of whether it should be given. Obama and Bush supposedly discussed this issue.

And tough conditions, but it we fail to pull them out China or some other country will, if we lose the auto makers we lose another large portion of our manufacturing base, Someone is going to make cars and in the process employ a lot of people, we can bite the bullet and help them or stand by and say goodbye to millions more jobs. If we can give billions to help multinational businesses that actually contribute little and probably take much out of the country then we can help major manufacturing companies that employ millions of workers in-country...

Ignoring the deficiencies in some of the product lines that Detroit is offering, the core problem is this country's stagnate or declining wages. If people are lucky enough to get a raise, they're likely under the rate of inflation. That doesn't leave any room in peoples' budgets to saddle themselves with a $300-400 car payment for the next 4-5 years. Fix the issue with declining wages and offshoring of jobs and a lot of our problems will magically go away. It's clear that our economy does not prosper when the rich get richer a lot faster than everybody else.

Even decades ago.

Plenty of cars were being purchased....just not from them. I bought mine from Subaru because the American makers didn't even MAKE what I was looking for!

big is better gas-guzzling mentality of the last 15 years. They became even more IN-YOUR-FACE obscene about that mentality after 9-11. The automakers went along with it and are suffering for that decision. THAT is why elections matter. Most of the American people see that now - - at least THIS generation of voters who switched from GOP to Dem in 2006 and 2008 do.

Japanese and other foreign makers were selling cars in America. People were looking for more fuel efficient cars, but American makers weren't making them. PLUS American cars were less reliable.

That is how the foreign makers got a foothold in America. I remember it. There was a gasoline shortage in the 1970's (real or manufactured).

Read up on the electric car, as well. GM bought the battery so it wouldn't be produced by anyone else. Then the cars were confiscated and destroyed. GM could brush its hands....problem solved.

GM currently has the technology to produce high-gas-mileage vehicles now, I've read.

GM and other auto makers work with the oil companies. Even Pickens couldn't get them interested in liquified natural gas, which is feasible, he said, for vehicles.

This is an old story that is being repeated decades later. Has nothing to do with BushCo, except that BushCo is a representative of the oil companies and so was in agreement with whatever the auto makers wanted to do. But so was Clinton, I believe.

which began to its full stride by the early 90s. The same with the religious fervor of the Right. It was deliberate political calculations that brought along both. THAT is the IN-YOUR-FACE part of the story.

Before that, the RW didn't have the stranglehold on the corporate media. They steadily bought up control after the ditching of the Fairness Doctrine. They started using that control aggressively for their fascist agenda by 1993.

Maybe you don't see it the way I do because you believe RW talkradio occurred in a vacuum.

Of course the planning in the 70s was the foundation for BushInc's agenda - many of us still try to remind others of the crimes Poppy and his cronies committed in the 60s and 70s to set up his fascist moves of the 80s. But when it came to the American people, it was the agressive targeting of their values with specific political propaganda and using the corpmedia to do it - and that movement hit its stride in the 90s and had a good 15 year run.

#2 - place at least a 20% tariff on all incoming products. This will stimulate US companies to resume making things here and increase the demand for labor, which will drive up wages

#3 - pass government provided health care for all - relieving US automakers of that cost so their cars will be more competitive

(this could easily be paid for by reducing the budget for the Pentagon and the CIA - and those people working in insurance and the military-industrial complex could now find jobs in resurging US manufacturing)

Chickenfeed these days in bailout terms.
That loan also gave birth to the term "concessions", and the downturn of union strength.

I fear this "bailout" will pound home the nails in that coffin, by design I believe.

Corporate welfare bastards.

It was a LOAN. It was paid back with interest. It was no more a bailout than your f'ing mortgage is.

and you know what?

I researched with Consumer Reports two new car purchases in the time since and ended up buying Chrysler products both times.

First was a 1993 Jeep Cherokee that I had no trouble with until it was totaled with almost 160,000 miles on it. As a matter of fact it was in two my rear end collisions (my rear) and hit a 150 pound deer with little damage and just minor injuries in all cases. (well...the deer didn't make it). Even when it was totaled by my teenage daughter, no one was more than a bit shook up.
Then a Dodge Grand Caravan that I still drive with 170,000 miles on it. Its starting to nickle and dime me but after 8 years and 170K miles I got my 20,000 grand worth.

.....just saying.... I have no idea how this bail out will work out, but Chrysler learned its lesson in my experience. Along lasting SAFE car that gets 20-25 MPG is what I want, and it has to cart my kids and all their junk around.

until Bush.