hypothetical: a conservative Dem, you dislike Dean and Nader both.

ulysses

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Fri Dec-19-03 07:01 PM
Original message

Poll question: hypothetical: a conservative Dem, you dislike Dean and Nader both.

Dean wins the Democratic nomination. Nader declines to run and, at least tepidly, endorses Dean. In the general election, you:

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SahaleArm

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Fri Dec-19-03 07:03 PM
Response to Original message

1. Disliking a candidate is not the same...

as not voting for them - Vote Democrat.

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eileen_d

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Fri Dec-19-03 07:03 PM
Response to Original message

2. I know you said hypothetical

Edited on Fri Dec-19-03 07:04 PM by eileen_d

but I am sincerely wondering if you consider all Democrats who dislike Dean and Nader conservative. I'm not conservative (moderate, maybe) but I dislike them both.

Anyway, I'd vote for Dean in your hypothetical situation. :party:

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ulysses

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Fri Dec-19-03 07:05 PM
Response to Reply #2

3. no, that's why I made the distinction.

I count among my friends here several progressive folks who don't care for either man.

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nothingshocksmeanymore

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Fri Dec-19-03 07:07 PM
Response to Original message

4. In the general, I vote for Dean because no matter how much I do not

see him as the candidate that can most correct the failures of this administration at least on the international level, he is FAR and AWAY better than George Bush and Supreme Court nominations are a HUGE factor in my ABB stance.

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ulysses

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Fri Dec-19-03 07:11 PM
Response to Reply #4

5. but you're one of those

I referenced in #3. The folks to whom the question is primarily directed likely won't comment, if they even vote in the poll.

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nothingshocksmeanymore

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Fri Dec-19-03 07:35 PM
Response to Reply #5

11. Well heck..to be fair each of the candidates has some fans who threaten

unreasonable hyperbole when push comes to shove. Frankly, as much as I have my resentments of Nader since I feel he is more divisive to anyone left of center than one who can unite us all against plutocracy, if he ran as a DEM I would vote for him...go figure..it isn't for me so much about him as it is the destructiveness of his actions against a political machine that has declared war on anyone that gets in their way...together we outnumber them.

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ulysses

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Fri Dec-19-03 07:39 PM
Response to Reply #11

13. well sure, re: hyperbolic supporters

You and I both know where the other stands on RN, and I don't mean to rehash that argument. Maybe this will clarify - http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=277608#277667

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nothingshocksmeanymore

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Fri Dec-19-03 07:47 PM
Response to Reply #13

17. Well we all know Lieberman is doing his part to unify the party

Edited on Fri Dec-19-03 07:47 PM by nothingshocksmeanymo

:D The ONE party system that is.

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ulysses

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Fri Dec-19-03 07:54 PM
Response to Reply #17

20. I particularly meant

one response to that thread. You know who I mean. I'm trying to gauge how correct I was in predicting a few months back that even a compromise candidate like Dean would be unacceptable to the DLC wing of the party.

Not that I particularly expect it to happen, but I'll be listening for exploding heads among DUs NewDem set if Nader endorses Dean. :D

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many a good man

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Fri Dec-19-03 07:23 PM
Response to Original message

6. Stay home or hold nose and vote Dean

Depends on how suckered in he is on Bush*'s lies. Dean will have to convince him that he's not the weak-kneed peacenik the media and Kerry are making him out to be. In that case Dean will probably get his vote.

If he can't make that case, he'll probably just stay home as long as long the evidence pointing to Bush's failings continues to mount (911, Plame, Iraq, etc.)

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AndyTiedye

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Fri Dec-19-03 07:39 PM
Response to Reply #6

12. Dean IS Pretty Conservative

He is only being painted as liberal because he won't give PNAC a blank check
and because of civil unions.

A conservative who believes in limited government based on our Constitution
should be comfortable with Dean.

I am quite a bit to the left of Dean myself, (closer to CMB or Kunich),
but I'd be happy to see him or any other Democrat oust Bush next year.

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Bombtrack

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Fri Dec-19-03 07:28 PM
Response to Original message

7. Ever heard of "Reagan democrats"? I personally would vote for Dean

Edited on Fri Dec-19-03 07:30 PM by Bombtrack

but I don't consider myself a "conservative" democrat. There are many issues I'm a centrist on (there are alot of issues with a left right and center), and theres only one issue I can pick off the top of my head I agree with the republican party platform over the democratic one on.

but there are alot of people who almost always vote democrat who would stay home or vote for Bush if Dean was nominated. Walmart democrats is a good term for them

and one need not be a "conservative democrat" to vote for Dean. I doubt most middle class liberal democrats want there income taxes raised

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ulysses

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Fri Dec-19-03 07:31 PM
Response to Reply #7

10. ok, then

Edited on Fri Dec-19-03 07:33 PM by ulysses

but there are alot of people who almost always vote democrat who would stay home or vote for Bush if Dean was nominated.

Are you telling me that those people are beyond understanding that taxes pay for their kids' schools, their roads, their veterans, etc., if that fact is explained to them?

Btw, my whole family is made up of middle class liberal Democrats in Oklahoma, and they're all solidly behind Dean.

edited for punctuation and addition.

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Bombtrack

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Fri Dec-19-03 07:41 PM
Response to Reply #10

14. well no that's not completely acurate

Edited on Fri Dec-19-03 07:44 PM by Bombtrack

Most middle class peoples kids go to schools paid for by local property taxes.

And I don't think most voters need explained to them where government services money comes from, tax dollars, dollars that they by a very wide margin they don't want to see increased

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ulysses

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Fri Dec-19-03 07:43 PM
Response to Reply #14

15. you and I both said "taxes" not "federal" or "local"

Edited on Fri Dec-19-03 07:44 PM by ulysses

(ok, you did say income taxes. Still...) I doubt most folks make the distinction, honestly.

And I don't think most voters need where government services money comes from, tax dollars, dollars that they by a very wide margin they don't want to see increased

I'm not sure how to parse this.

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Bombtrack

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Fri Dec-19-03 07:56 PM
Response to Reply #15

21. Dean is running on a platform of raising federal income taxes

Voters know that they take up that issue firstly with there presidential candidates and secondly with there congressmen and senators, just as they firstly take up there state income taxes with gubinatorial candidates and state rep and senate candidates.

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ulysses

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Fri Dec-19-03 08:00 PM
Response to Reply #21

23. "Raising"?

Or repealing the unwise Bush cuts?

Look, taxes are necessary. I think we pay too much myself, but I consider it a Pentagon problem, and we're not going to be able to take money away from the McDonnall-Douglass boys for some time to come, so we pay. We have to address the issue, and do it forthrightly, or we keep cutting essential domestic programs.

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Bombtrack

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Fri Dec-19-03 08:12 PM
Response to Reply #23

24. Where did I say taxes where unneccessary?

Of course they're neccessary, but it's not neccessary, and it's not good politics or policy, to raise the federal rate from what is now law(you call it a repeal if you like) on taxpayers other than the top 2 percent, as long as you put close loopholes, cut corporate welfare, and cut beuracracy.

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sallyseven

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Fri Dec-19-03 07:28 PM
Response to Original message

8. I will

move out of the country.

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newyawker99

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Sat Dec-20-03 08:51 AM
Response to Reply #8

25. Hi sallyseven!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

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ulysses

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Fri Dec-19-03 07:28 PM
Response to Original message

9. if "other", could you clarify?

If "Bush", would you mind explaining why you, as a Democratic conservative, would vote for Bush over a Democratic moderate/centrist?

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DFLforever

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Fri Dec-19-03 07:46 PM
Response to Original message

16. I think this poll tells us all more about the current members

of DU than any other thread I've seen. At this point it looks as if only about 52% are actually Democrats. Maybe that explains some of the crap that's been posted here the last few weeks.

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gristy

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Fri Dec-19-03 07:50 PM
Response to Reply #16

18. I dunno

No one who voted for Bush has made a comment. There are certainly repuke lurkers amongst us, and voting in polls like this is the one thing they can do without being "outed".

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eileen_d

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Fri Dec-19-03 07:53 PM
Response to Reply #16

19. This is a sample of 28!

And I agree with the previous reply... the margin of error has to be adjusted for lurking freepers.

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ulysses

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Fri Dec-19-03 07:57 PM
Response to Reply #19

22. yeah

That's why I asked for comments. Probably should have done so initially, not that it would have made much difference.

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Iverson

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Sat Dec-20-03 09:56 AM
Response to Reply #22

26. a comment

Since I have too much trouble imagining myself to be a conservative Democrat, I did not vote. However, at this writing, I see that only 53% of respondents would vote for the centrist Dean. I have to wonder what proportion of these are among the chorus that harps at lefties to "unite" behind the preferred ABB of whoever happens to be typing.

Maybe the poll isn't getting sincere responses. However, I suspect that it is, with the freedom that comes from an anonymous response.

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ulysses

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Sat Dec-20-03 10:14 AM
Response to Reply #26

27. I do think it pays

to be wary of trolls posting in a poll like this. Still, yes, one wonders about the willingness of conservative Dems to get behind Dean, especially if Nader offers anything like an endorsement. That's what I was hoping to gauge here, although there's probably no way to accurately do so without some clarification on who's voting and why.

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