Obama is smarter than we are.

He is also smarter than the media.

Otherwise, he would not be where he is now.

Given these two unarguable facts, I make bold to state the following:

1) We will not know what his appointments are until he makes them.
2) It is fruitless to speculate.

and what the hell, I'll add this one:

3) Why don't we wait until he actually takes office before bitching about how disappointed we are in his administration?

It's just a suggestion,

The Plaid Adder

:thumbsup:

:thumbsup:

will be a real challenge after the past 8 years. But we must RISE to the challenge! YES WE CAN!

The Plaid Adder

.... I have encouraged folk to reflect on the past 22 months and realize they witnessed not merely an exceptional campaign but an exceptional team.

Obama intends to change, at the core, how government is done -- big focus on US being critical to the doing.

Each step, during the past 22 months, and each day since the evening of 4 Nov 2008 -- when Obama is ready for us to know something, he tells us.

His team does not leak.

They do not play games.

They shut down the Hillary organization.

They shut down the Rove/McCain organization.

They are relentlessly on message.

They use the corporate media to the extent they consider it necessary.

They communicate via an ever expanding, truly vast social network, the day to day duties and expectations required to get the job done - win the primaries, win the general election, respectively.

Why anyone remains willing, other than for sheer entertainment, to listen and observe the various spin, slander, hate, conventional wisdom .... -mongers, is much more a statement of the cluelessness of those doing so than any reflection on the reality of the Obama system.

Peace,
Bob

I have gone back to being immersed in my art career, impossible with current soon to be gone POTUS!

You are right. It has been very difficult these last 4 years to do anything of an artistic, creative nature. For the first time in years, I am writing new poetry, and getting excited about the healing power of words.

And yes, Plaid Adder, Obama is definitely smarter than us and I trust his judgment. So I will refrain from giving Obama my opinions, and just stick to offering him my prayerful support.

what kind of art career if I may ask?
I'm a graphic designer, hoping business picks up soon!

By your reasoning it seems he must be.

smarter than us (and the media) is that he has been elected. That would make Dubya smarter than us too.

I do realize the reality is that their circumstances were completely different. I just didn't think the op's statement bore that out. I have no doubt that Obama is extremely intelligent and I haven't bitched at all about anything he has done so far. I also think there are some extremely intelligent people on DU.

And there is strong evidence of voting issues the first time. I think he is a sock-puppet, chosen specifically because he is a high functioning moran:) He was placed in office to allow others to manipulate the powers of the office.

The way I read the OP's statement is that with the way he - Obama has handled the media (without buying it out but by simply having trustworthy, competent staff) he'll make good decisions about his cabinet choices etc..

I think people are just excited and putting names out there, but have a residual trend toward guarding against disappointment by complaining in advance that developed after two successive appointments of turd blossom and his figurehead toady.

I would say they are extremely intelligent people. I don't necessarily agree with all of their arguments, but they are well-reasoned and worth expressing.

We all need to dialog on the potential selections but I think how I read the OP is not to go into "the sky is falling" mode and start doubting that there is some valid reason for the choices.

He was never elected, he was selected and fraudulently took the office. A very different thing.

thinks Obama is smarter than himself (or I for that matter) solely because he got elected. It is likely due to HOW he got elected, the kind of campaign he ran, and the kind of credentials he brings. I don't know many african american Harvard law review editors who graduated near the top of their class at Columbia and Harvard respectively, do you? It is obvious when looking at his resume or listening to the man's eloquence that he is an extremely bright individual. oh and it doesn't hurt that he happened to run a campaign so amazingly efficient and flawless that he got elected president... as a black man.

For all those reasons I can safely say that Barack Obama is more intelligent than I.

GWB, your average "C" yale student, or failed business man however......

The American public put the Bush in office because that bought Karl Rove's lies without hesitation. Far too many of our electorate are uninformed and intend to stay that way.

Some faulty reasoning in the OP.



(but I do think Obama is smarter than me) :)

Still, all the speculation is a silly waste of time. And that was the real point of the OP.

Just teasing, and getting into the spirit of this thread.

How the heck did you get that from the OP?

Most of them learn to play dumb to a certain extent. Especially southern ones. As a class, they are the kind of people who act all hokey and simple, then invite you to a poker game, and take all your money.

The man is ignorant, intellectually lazy, incurious, and happy to let others do his thinking for him. However, I don't at all think that he's stupid.

if only because it makes perfect sense! :)

Like Jon Stewart stated yesterday.....looking through a prism of logical thought.

he he

The bloggers and pundits don't have anything to do but speculate. I won't react to them.

That is how he conducted business during the campaign, and how I expect him to continue. Not even giving credence to the absurdity of it all by acknowledging their blabberings.

Because he had a clear vision that didn't waver, took his time to actually vette his people's abilities and made good choices he didn't NEED to acknowledge the blabberings.

I remember getting SO optimistic whenever I compared the crowds gathered for Obama and those gathered for McLame. IF I were standing up in front of that size of crowds after a while it might dawn on me that the press and their poodles didn't matter, but it seems Obama knew or was wisely advised to that fact way in the beginning.

between the elected officials and the people they govern. "Trust me" is the message Bushco sold us all in the aftermath of 9/11, and we see how that worked out.

I don't want Obama wavering at everything real or imagined both during this transition and during his Administration, but every once in awhile, its good for an elected leader to really stick an ear to the ground to find out what people are saying about a choice that's being made. Somewhere between the extremes of flip-flopping with every change in the wind, and rock-solid iron determination to "stay the course" is a happy medium. In any case, it's not only the right, but the obligation of the people being governed to say, "Hey, wait a minute, have you considered this?" when they disagree.

I'm not saying trust everything, but people who want to throw him under the bus for every decision he MIGHT make aren't really helping much.

I agree with you - there has to be a balance and I suggest some trust. Not complete, but at least some.

and in the tradition of representative government, he gets to be, as Shrub so smirkily put it, "the decider". But we have a right and an obligation to raise questions that might help him make his decisions. If he chooses to completely ignore us, he risks becoming another Bush.

I feel that this is a man who is humbled by the fact that his nation lifted him to this job at so early an age, at a time so very early in his political career. He showed great wisdom in picking an elder statesman of the party for his VP, he knows that he will need the input of very many sincere people to lead. He knows that he was elected to listen, as well as to teach.

policy statements and Senatorial votes were at odds with my idea of the kind of governance I want to see.

He really won me with his speech in Philly after the Rev Wrong media circus and from then on I bought into the HOPE and CHANGE theme. It really didn't have anything to do with an unwavering clear vision.

I'll go along with what laptoprepairguy said wholeheartedly.

Working together for Change requires that we suspend a small amount of our skeptism in order to move forward together and not be left arguing on the steps.

IF we are concerned he is making some wrong changes, sure let him know, but the people he picks out to assist him have to be people HE can work with not what he will get if he puts it to a popular vote.

I would say pushing for someone one considers a better choice based on qualifications is an example of a post that isn't addressed by this OP.

The people I have the hardest time with are people who only complain and tear down. So like I said originally, I don't think the most intelligent people on DU are the ones doing the "bitching".

I would agree he is smarter than the media and he may be smarter than a lot of folks here but no, he is not smarter than me.

But I do admire him and expect great things from him. High intelligence can be a detriment to a leader anyway.

:popcorn:

I'm smarter than him, IQ-wise, but I lack his education, experience, and domain-specific knowledge.

That being said, I'm pretty sure he'll generally do the right thing, regardless of my opinions on a given single decision or issue.

if it even exists. Where did you get that figure?

somewhere on the net as 165 -170...true? don't know.
That ad for checking your own IQ had his as much lower 136. ??????????????

:rofl:

I have this big new house with FR33 RE.FIN@NCING$$$$ to properly accommodate my HVGE DI.KK, especially once I get ahold of this ALL-NATURUL VI@-GARA. I plan on filling the rest of it with CH3AP S0TFWARE!

that HVGE DI.KK????
:rofl:

like you said in this post. He would not want to come off as so arrogant, as nothing would be gained and it would hurt how people perceived him and his message.

The phrase should be "smarter than I".

Nice start on proving your extraordinary intelligence.

Note: I'm not usually a grammar nazi, but that one was just too amusing to ignore, considering the context.

Get a brain, moran...

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

I hate to see those errors, and the one that drives me over the edge is this example:

He gave the book to Jim and I. (groan)

that you would have bothered to use but a fraction of your stupendous intellect to learn proper English grammar and punctuation.

Pretty much everyone in this subthread fails at intellectual dick waving.

how intelligent you are looks stupid.

Unless we're supposed to be waving yours?

but I don't have one in real life :evilgrin:

morphodite?
:rofl:

Best.Phrase.ever!!!

:loveya:

be detrimental to a leader.

Fourth standard deviation, exactly. There aren't that many of us. He might be one, but the odds are against it.

I believe what the OP intends to say is that he is a good strategist, which is itself a leap of faith. He managed a campaign well. It remains to be seen if he can manage a government equally well. It does help him that the bar has been set so low by the current occupant.

the man is quite intelligent. Hell, let's not forget he was a constitutional law professor. That's hardly "you want fries with that".

I get so tired of the DU Panic Posse.

:thumbsup:

K&R

Most people are smarter than I am (I've often thought that the tired paraphrase, "this is such a dumb country" is merely an attempt at advertising to those around us how clever we think we ourselves are..."self-validation" is the hand-me-down Freudian term, I think)

Because of that, I'm forced to put my faith (classical definition-- trust in something of which I do not have absolute knowledge in) into those people that I believe to be smarter and more knowledgeable than I, and posses the same general perceptions on agenda, solutions, and morality.

Pres. Elect Obama just happens to be one of those people.



Regardless, I disappoint myself far more often than any administration ever has... :P


(On Edit-- Nice post)

I haven't checked, but I bet the biggest hand wringers BEFORE the election are the ones who are so critical now. How many times does Obama have to "prove" himself to them?

He made a believer out of me long ago. I won't be second guessing "That One."

there is a very small number that I consider my intellectual superior and Obama is on that short list. So you make an excellent point. We should be careful and measured in our second guessing of and criticism of Barack Obama's judgment, as the odds favor him being the one that is right.

I'm sure there are plenty of people out there chomping at the bit to tear into him, and I don't understand why some folk here should be doing the same thing, particularly after seeing how the GE went. At least wait for confirmed information.

:toast:

I think DU will always have that group of people who "will complain about being hung with a new rope".

and people are hanged; pictures are hung.

but that tends to elicit a reaction of an entirely different type.

:rofl:

:rofl:

:P

Only a dolt wouldn't be able to think of more than one way to spell a word.

+1

he fixes the things that are broken.

One person CAN'T fix all this mess.

Obama - or any leader at this time of crises - needs people who can believe in the vision and do their own part to make it happen.

I would suspect you are great at doing your part, but don't buy into the vision bit.

The vision bit is how you talk a herd of cats into wandering in the same direction at the same time as if by intent following a leader, when everyone knows it is impossible to herd cats.

There's no way everyone will agree on every single appointment.

It's been one week and 2 days! We should still be celebrating!

:woohoo:

To the people who are pissing and moaning about Obama, just think "President Elect McCain." Things could be SO much worse.

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I don't think I've ever started a thread that lasted long enough to attract Grovelbot before!

The Plaid Adder

that any politician's level of intelligence alone provides firm ground for unquestioning support, there are many goods reasons for people to relax and enjoy this period of time.

The first is that a trait that compliments intelligence is goodness -- and Barack Obama appears to be both smart and a good person. The second is quite simple: he is in a position to make decisions right now, and we are not. This is not to suggest that DUers should not discuss, and even disagree, on potential appointments. Rather, it is to reinforce that just as President-elect is in the position to make some decisions today, President Obama will soon be making other decisions, with specific goals in mind.

It is unlikely that any thinking person on the planet will agree whole-heartedly and 110% with each decision he makes, or even every goal he sets. But each of us does have the option of enjoying this period of time, supporting the general goals of the new president, and considering options for trying to support and/or future actions by the administration.

I think we are a product of years of being lied to and having to predict and get ahead of micheif in the White House in order to be able to move the DEM support in time to be in the right place at the right time even without all the facts in our grasp.

AND the wierdness of some DEMs in the legislature hasn't helped. A lot of people feel more could have and should have been done by them AND we waited to see what they would do before we judged.

It's going to be an adjustment to see how Obama handles things, but I think at this point if we want the best outcome we have to get together and gang up on the reich wing media. The time is NOW to sue all the liars of the airwaves. It's a better use of our angst.

there is such a thing as a "trial balloon", where someone's name is floated for a position. It's our job to shoot them down when we need to.

Look at how it worked for the Repukes. Harriett Miers got shot down, and Alito was substituted. The wing nuts are far happier with him on the Supreme Court than they would have been with Miers.

We are the base, we deserve the same right to either freak, or nod approvingly.

I think the idea is that we have a dialog while considering there could be reasons for appointments that might actually be revealed to a constituency that wasn't so apt to freak out at the first whiff of an appointment.

One of the things I look at is that proceding with a true bi-partisan approach that doesn't diminish the DEM's strength or progress toward our agendas will make for a weird mix.

I can see why people have concerns about Rahm Emanuel as Chief of Staff, for instance. Because of his economic stances people might think he'll sell us out to big business, but although we need regulation, we need regulation that doesn't strangle business and after years of being on the rethug titty, business is going to need firm but not slasher like mentallity wherever they HAVEN'T broken the law. But that of course is where the new Attorney General would be of interest.

I think it's the ultimate mix that will be the real tell and even if people feel the need to freak out and do, I think we should keep in our heart of hearts the reality that Obama does have basically politicians to choose from.

but it's still fun. And at this stage, waiting for the Obama administration to take power, it's exciting to consider the possibilities. There are so many good men and women, and President Elect Obama and his team strike me as pragmatists dedicated to finding the right person for the task rather the right political appointee.

rocks are smarter. :eyes:

But I see nothing wrong with discussing and speculating when there is no actual news going on, it keeps peoples minds occupied and is harmless.

You know, I've held off on commenting on this past week's conservative media mantra: that the United States is a center-right nation. I think it's true, and others back me up.

Barack Obama is the closest thing to a centrist that we're likely to get until things change in the United States. But much more importantly he's his own man with his own unique perspective on how things need to be run.

He has the potential to be the best Republican President since Bill Clinton. But there is no way in Hell he's ever going to be the darling of a true progressive movement. That's okay in my book; things are so fucked up now I doubt it will matter much.

He and his group give squat about what some posters on DU think.

LOL - I posted a week before the election about how DU would pick him apart.
I didn't think it would be this soon.

The internet IQ test I took says I can join the Genius Society for only $29.95. :P

the fact that he believes in a sky daddy makes me smarter by default.

I am all for Barack, but he has been brain washed to believe there is a god that created everything.

his chances of winning the election without the standard profession of (the proper American) faith.
Wire up all politicians to a polygraph and re-examine that faith thing with them.
I believe we'd be in for some surprises.
:P

Hateful comments are inexcusable even if you don't feel that there will be any accountability for it.

Do we all have to feel like you do ? ...can we have different views ?

I feel that it is down right absurd to believe in a all creating god when faced with the mountain of science that says otherwise.

I quit frequenting rw sites because they are filled with hateful people who feel that a difference in opinion is grounds to act like a total asshole.

you called me "dim"

you called me a 'total asshole'

you called me a 'hateful person'

And compared me to people on rightwing sites.

Maybe it's YOU who doesn't get it. Maybe you need to look in the mirror.

Buzz Clik said nothing you didn't deserve, and nothing I wouldn't have phrased in harsher terms.

You wouldn't say that to my face, I am sure of it.

Now run along and play.

that thinks believing in an all creating god is a rational thought..especially when faced with the mountain of evidence science has offered.

I thinky you are telling a story. How does it feel to play an Atheist on the internets ? ..did you say 20 amens ?

First, there is absolutely zero evidence against the existence of a God. None. There is no evidence in favor of God, either. Since it's an extraordinary assertion lacking evidence, to me it seems extraordinarily unlikely to be true. So unlikely, in fact, that it does not seem logical to accept.

At the same time, I know enough about human cognition, culture, and society that I understand that religion/superstition is a universal human impulse, and that it has nothing to do with cognitive ability.

Finally: What the fuck are "twenty amens?" For God's sake, if you're going to mock religion, at least do it intelligibly. Seriously.

as many found out in the primaries. He has continued to pleasantly surprised me.

One point though, with Clinton as Secretary of State and out of the Senate, it takes her
out of the healthcare reform equation for better or for worse. Obama may be seeing
how she handles her options and what powers she tries to wield. Also, I'm sure
her Senate seat replacement would be a topic of interest to both of them

I find it fascinating watching this process and political parlor game.

Are the same hand-wringers about Obama's soon-to-be administration the same ones that were complaining a few weeks ago about the daily tracking polls tightening?

Are they the same ones that were pulling their hair out about the early voting lines and how the GOP was trying to steal the election and give it to McCain?

Are they the same ones that were complaining about the MSM giving McCain/Palin 5 more minutes per day of coverage in their campaign speeches than Obama/Biden and how this was proof that they were trying to make the election close?

:fistbump:

That logic thing you got going there just might catch on! ;)

:hi:

to know my president is smarter than the average bear. It's been a long, miserable 8 years of Commander Codpiece Dumbshit and it pains me still to know this mediocrity was the leader of anything, never mind the United States of America.

then Cheney also belongs in that category somewhere.

To know that someone is smart - or, as in the case of Rahm Emanuel - that someone can get things done, is helpful only insofar as you believe that smarts and the can-do attitude will be put to work in your favor. The reason there is so much complaining about the nominees being floated is that some people are not convinced about the latter.

From all the crowd chanting "I trust Obama's judgment" I have yet to hear what they think of people like Larry Summers.

And I'm not taking orders to shut up and toe the line from anyone. Especially that the same people who now tell us to wait for the nominations to materialize will be telling us again to shut up when they do, because we have to wait and see (and trust). Then they'll be telling us to shut up because it's only been a hundred days, or only a year, and we should give them a chance.

And, if people like Larry "Africa is underpolluted" Summers do screw up as screw up they must, I wonder what these same people will say. Will they cheerlead for the Dem admin to the end no matter the facts, or will they wring hands and say they didn't know?

Yes, what we're engaging in now is speculation. This is what most people do before things are going to happen (to them).

It had nothing whatever to do with my post or the thoughts behind it but thanks anyway, I guess.

:thumbsup: :fistbump:

I've been offline for a week due to a dead 'puter mouse so I'm just having fun catching up and getting use to smiling at the thought of our country again.

so sad. it finally happened.

Really, for the good of the country, and the whole wide world, can't we toss the old guy out now and let the new guy start early? Two months is a long time in dog years to grit our teeth waiting for the current screw-up-in-chief to make his last screw-up.

that an organizing an artist's studio sale with 12 people should get me through till jan.

Sorry, he's just not.

But he's by no means a dumb man, so I'm not going to say anything until he messes up :D

I assume you think quite highly of yourself, possibly with justification. I think highly of myself as well, possibly with justification. I wouldn't compare myself blindly to anyone else. After all, as any lawyer knows, never ask a question unless you are absolutely sure of the answer...

School grades and scores.
Past and present written documents.

While one can argue the *merits* of various correlations, broad generalizations (with caveats and exceptions noted) can be made, based on existing data.

The rest has only the loosest correlation to IQ, if any. Heck, even the LSAT isn't a good measurement of IQ, since you can study to improve your LSAT score. And "written documents" and "school grades" are about as far from quantifiable intellect as you can get.

But let's ignore the fact that you have absolutely no way of measuring (or even estimating) Barack Obama's IQ. What, exactly, do you think his IQ is? 110? 120? 140? 160?

Super bright, possibly genius (in some measurement systems), but not *so* far to the extreme where it's a form of disability.

measurement starts to break down. Different tests can produce fairly divergent results. I think it's safe to say that Obama's IQ is above 130; I'd go so far as to be willing to put money it's over 140. But when you have two people with high IQs, a direct comparison becomes difficult. I come on top of my girlfriend in one test (whichever that endless eight-hour one is); she on top of me in another*. When we're estimating intelligence from even more unreliable guideposts, a blanket "I am sure that I am smarter than him" becomes indefensible unless you're Marilyn vos Savant.








*That sounds really dirty. I could probably reword that, but...nope, don't think I will.

There are more than just a few people "up in" Marilyn's general range. Not million and millions, but certainly more than just her as one single individual.

The top 1% of living individuals, by definition, spans ~60 million, the top .1% ~6 million, the top .01% 600,000... so, even if Obama is smarter than 99.999% of the world's population, he'd still be in a "club" with... 60,000 other people.

I'll certainly grant that measurement gets harder at higher levels, which is why "high-clockers" (a less loaded term than g or IQ) get so many measurements, just to try and gather more data for long-term normalization purposes.

In my high-school graduating class, we had ~200 kids who were 140+ (it was an entrance requirement, it was something of a special-needs public school program for the differently-abled). On the upper end, there were three of them who were scoring 180+, and about a dozen who were 160+. (Tests with lower ceilings are kinda useless with kids who have certain disabilities).

Just as a 140+ is capable of noticing the differences between them and a 120+ (a 20 point gap), so is a 160+ capable of noticing the 20 point gap between them and a 140+, or a 180+ is capable of noticing the 40 point gap between them and a 140+ (and most certainly their 80 point gap with the 100 "average").

I will simply posit that it is likely that there are people on DU who can notice a 20-40+ point gap, even if more exact quantification is impossible (for the reasons you have mentioned).

:rofl:

"Than" is now functionally a preposition in colloquial speech. You can say "smarter than I" as a shortened form of "smarter than I am," or you can say "smarter than me." In professional writing, I would stick to "I am," but I wouldn't really say "smarter than I" unless I was trying to sound old-fashioned.

Last time I looked, kids don't even diagram sentences anymore. No wonder every newspaper I read and the scroll across the bottom of a television screen I read are full of errors!

Gecweðan ge ful riht Engliscgereorde?

On edit: I changed this around three times, and still am certain I got it wrong. My pet theory is that Anglo-Saxon gave way to Middle English because everyone was too busy chopping limbs off and having drunken sex to figure out their inflection system.

and look at all of the elements in an objective point of view.


He reminds me of Lincoln without the melancholy in this respect.


Grant was also this way when he was commanding armies in a battle. As the great battles would erupt and it inevitably looked as if his Army was going to be overcome by another great Rebel charge the battle would eventually turn and the Union side would recover and win. Right in the middle of the chaos as his staff would be running around packing the command tent ready to run for their lives he would calmly whittle waiting for the battle lines to engage and when the charachter of the battle was pronounced make the adjustments to turn the battle to victory.

Obama has the ability to look at things objectively even in the middle of a great battle.

Which means that I defer to his judgment on his cabinet selections.

You wrote them better than I could have.

K&R

Wow.

to understanding of complex subjects. One Nobel-winning biologist can easily be considered "smarter" with regard to biology than all of DU, despite DU undoubtedly possessing more aggregate brain cells and years of study in biology.

Plenty of us are smart enough in narrowly defined ways. But he is both analytically intelligent and emotionally intelligent, and is blessed with common sense.

I can't wait to have a President I can trust again.

I'm not one of them, however.

However, a person using a 6-GHz computer with Windows' built-in Calculator isn't going to be able to do near the amount of work that a person using a 4-GHz computer with Mathematica installed can...

I think I'll steal it for the next debate about "intellect" I have.

:evilgrin:

but his genius is so clear right now that I can only

K n R.

--and tying ropes around Obama's waist, the better to pull him in their direction, why should members of the general public drop their ropes?

i no this becuse i read a lot of blogs. each blogs is written by someone with like one hundred iqs. so even if obama has like three hundred iqs, ive read like eight thousand iqs today. sorry but thats facts and you have to face facts.

Well in regard to info we don't know at least some of the things we do know in regard to Barack smear is a worry though.

for looking like he's going to be sub-servant to AIPAC if she gets SOS, and I said, can we at least wait til AFTER he gets in office for about a half year to fully start complaining if there's strong reason to complain? O should be one of our better pres's when all is said and done - this even despite the looming disaster economically. It could have been far worse if McSame had got in, but I would have fled to the hills or another country had he - I've had enough of GOP mis-administration. thanks!

thank goodness SOME of us get it. repugs have daily been throwing things in the news to try to make Obama look bad, we don't need our own to be the chicken littles.

I don't comment on his appointments because I trust him. It's his call.

... And the new smilie: :fistbump:

What the heck, this too: :hug:

Hekate

Since election night I have had this LOFTY sort of feeling.

I haven't watched much news in the last few days.

We have went to a concert.

We took a little road trip.

Ahhhhhhhh!

The stress is GONE!

Obama is SMARTER than we are.

Weeeeeeeeeeeeee!

Yay!

K and R

I think most of the planet feels relief and excitement just anticipating this man we elected as our next President.

I think it's plain silly to complain about what might happen, or what won't happen before the guy is in any position to actually do anything.
The Professor

is also stronger and more moral than we are because his temptations are going to be legion.

and I bet there will be a couple of his picks that will not set well with us. But hell, what do we know?

Not kidding.

I defer to Obama's knowledge and instincts as to what the hell he is doing. "Smart" is measured many ways.

a little bit of an idiot, a little bit nuts or a little bit corrupt. Or a combination of those.
edit - I don't think Obama is corrupt or stupid. :D

if we all went back and boned up on our history, and start studying solutions to the problems this country faces.

He has earned this.

Please, everyone just chill.

And if you get a chance, please tell big mouths like Chuck Schumer to STFU.


Peace from newly blue Indiana!

K&R, well put

People, this guy is NOT the President yet.
He's only been the President-Elect for two weeks.
Give it up.

Every time somebody here second guessed his campaign (ooooh...noooooo.... woe is me... he's gonna blow it... ooooooh) -- every time that happened, the WELL-OILED MACHINE that is the Obama Team, continued with their PLAN.

Don't you think they had a PLAN... how they wanted to run the country... BEFORE they began this 2 year thing?
OR... at least worked on it ... ALL THAT TIME?

Do you realllllllllly think they are making it all up now... on the fly?

GET A GRIP!

(and maybe... STFU....and ENJOY THE MOMENT)

Sheesh.

Thanks, Plaid Adder!

No better spot for him

Without it, ratings would go down, advertising expenditures would plumet, the economy would worsen and another million or so people would be out of work.

I've been spewing a similar rant for a couple days now.


:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:

I think I trust Obama more.

Reading some of the upset here on various decisions or appointments made by Barack in the last week. And it is sad that it is coming from "supporters". My advice to all here is that we elected him because we trust his judgment and intellect. Now let him work and do his thing. Leave the endless post-election, pre-inauguration criticism for the twisted freeps. He will maintain his strength with us behind him, not sapping him of it.

I must agree. Not just on an IQ level, but on a constitutional level. A smart man can be very dumb about some things, but very effective in the areas of their expertise. An example of that would be a medical doctor who didn't know how to change a flat tire. (I've seen this.) After reading (or I should say struggling to read) 'The Audacity of Hope', I realized that Obama really understood our system of government. He is really an expert in this area. He's (as he says) not perfect, but he sure knows a lot more about what's going on than I do. When he, right off the bat did some things as a senator that I thought was unwise, I just had to trust him to try to do the best thing for the country. I do trust him, even if I don't agree with him. I know he's our best shot at working things out. I worked during the campaign making signs and going to meetings and I'm ready to keep working to make this a better country.
:patriot:

Let's give the guy a chance. The only appointment he has announced so far is Chief of Staff. The rest is just speculation.

Then I'd imagine they'd have something like a 25% chance of shitting.

Although I'm not sure if that's intellect or due to the fact that I simply don't have Obama's discipline and ambition. His mother woke him up at 5am every morning and made him study. I would imagine that instills one hell of a work ethic.

of having manipulated the nominations to eliminate anyone they would consider a threat, to promote either a man or a woman, being the easiest to swift boat and target by the Republican Noise Machine. Look back at the attacks upon Kucinich as he attempted to retain his status in the debates, and note John Kerry very suddenly, very mysteriously dropping out (and a scandal appears). They had the classic, well-honed Clinton jingo ready for Hillary.

They -did- call Obama a terrorist, directly pushing ye olde 9/11 button. Considering Bush's lengthy association of Saddam with 9/11, it's also unsurprising that Republicans made a point of letting everyone know Obama's middle name. "Terrorist fist jab". "Muslim". Who was calling Obama the Anti-Christ?

All "9/11" associations. They hit the sore spot with as many hammers as they could.

And it backfired upon them. They didn't know how smart the man is, and how it would make them appear in contrast. Mr. Obama had all the right moves, at the right times. And the public, having finally grown somewhat inured to the Noise Machine.

Finally.

...:fistbump: , :yourock: , :headbang: & :patriot: !

He's a competent politician with the potential to be a great president, but I won't refer to him as my superior. He is no one's superior. He is an equal member of the human race who happens to be about to take on the job of serving the people of this nation.

Much wise observation here.

*edited for some grammar nazi-ing on myself! :P

Recomended... close to a hundred now.

I think it is whiplash for most around these parts, as for the last eight years we were used to being smarter than the President of the United States. We were also trained by his actions to be in a constant state of anticipatory rage.

My advice is the same as the Adder's chill the f out enjoy the fact that the President is in fact one of the BEST and the BRIGHTEST. No doubt he will not always do the thing that "we" want him too, but there will be plenty of time over the first hundred days of his admin, and over the next four to eight years, to express your/our opposition to his proposals and actions.

But please keep in mind that though there MAY be a couple things here and there that you may REALLY disagree with, the VAST majority of his actions will be 180 degrees from the chimp in chief in motivation and effect.

making ALL our concerns/issues and hoped for solutions clear ...

In the Dallas Morning News, I read the opinion section daily and I keep coming across Republican columnists attempting to caution Obama to be measured in his actions as president and to take care in his appointments. I wonder how they can claim such high ground and wisdom still, like they actually know something?

These high and mighty partisans are the ones who would be wise to remember that it was Obama who defeated their corporate political money machine with many small donations and a dedicated and diverse army of supporters. Obama has beaten back the so-called Bradley effect to defeat their lily white God, guns and flag pin white idiot majority. Obama defeated Hillary Clinton, probably the only real formidable opponent in this race, and won her support and won over most of her supporters. Obama never had to engage their baseless attacks, the way so many of us begged him to do, the way we wish Kerry had done four years ago. He defeated them with optimism, and only when necessary defeated them by pointing out their failures, not the falsehood of their claims.

Obama was challenged in so many ways in this campaign and faced great odds and great opposition and still emerged victorious. It wasn't an accident, it wasn't dumb luck, it wasn't people tired of Bush or people with a lack of faith in McCain. It was a result of a skilled leader taking his message to all Americans and to all the world and letting the message make the case.

I'm thankful we finally have someone who represents the best of us coming to take the helm. It's cool to be smart again.

Obama raised a lot of money from small donors, I think I heard 40% of it. But there were a large number of bundlers who raised $500K a piece. Obama did what no candidate did in expanding the number of people who were involved in the political process through campaign fundraising.


But when there was a measure of corporate political money raised, the question becomes did he really defeat the influence of big money?





Obama won a large percentage of suburban voters, more than any Democrats thus far. He also won a greater share of whites with graduate and college degrees. My question to you is whether or not this 'so-called Bradley effect' is responsible for the way white voters who make less than $50K voted? If it is, is it possible that there is actually a Bradley effect?


There are some who say that the 75% of this country who is white have overcome color as being a reason to discriminate. Obama barely broke even 48 to 52% of those voters. Where would you say we actually are now?

Agreed, K&R!!! :kick:

they navigated the labyrinth and got themselves elected. Every elected official has to get help to get elected.

Why can't this country elect someone like the guy next door, the one you'd go have a beer with? Don't need no stinking intellectuals!


:sarcasm:

I trust THIS President. I'm not going to nitpick every move he makes. I trust him to make good choices that will benefit all of us.

President-Elect Obama has a huge mountain to climb. * has made a mess of this country and our standing in the world. Obama has more on his shoulders than I would wish on anyone. But I know he is up to the challenge.




I wonder how many folks on this board would be up to the job that Obama is going to have to do?

...crickets....

Before beginning a match, he has a good idea how he's going to play. Sometimes he has to change his plan but those changes are based on what the reality is and how the game is unfolding. Obama and his team of advisers are doing the same thing. They've had an ideal of what they wanted to do if Obama was elected. They're in a better position to know what's going on, they have a better grasp of the various personalities involved (what they're like behind the scenes instead of in front of the cameras) and they are comparing it to their various wish lists of appointments. I would wager my favorite dog that there are a lot of things going on in the background that is causing them to change their game plan or rethink their ideas.

Right now we keep hearing the media talking about leaks but where are the leaks really coming from? Are they coming from the people that have been involved with the campaign all this time? Are they coming from the people that have been brought on board to help with the transition? Are they coming from people around those who have been contacted. Who really knows where the media is getting their information. What we do know is that the media outlets are competing for the all mighty dollar and it is in their interest to create controversy to try to up their ratings.

Think about it? How many "exclusive" interviews with Palin have there been this past week? Aren't "exclusive" interviews ones that are hard to get? How are all these interviews "exclusives" when the wicked witch of the great northwest is talking to any and everyone who will talk to her?

I'm comfortable right now with the idea that Obama and his team have a plan and that they are doing the best they can to implement it. I sometimes wonder where he may be going but I'm also willing to wait and see what he actually does.

isn't it our right as voters to debate whether that possible decision being floated around is good for us or not? I understand those who are obviously loyal to Obama, just wish to enjoy the winning of this election, but it will be our responsibility to objectively judge decisions the man makes. Even if they are based on political "Weather Ballons".

I don't see people really bitching or disappointed as much as they are voicing "concerns" that giving "insert name" into a high position may have unfavorable results. The concerns that Obama's cabinet may be filled by those who favor corporatism over populism is a real threat to many of us liberals and progressives, as well as the rest of the people of this country.

If what I state in this post is what many consider to be bashing, sorry but I disagree. This IS the moment to voice your concerns, for Obama's administration and those in it will have a direct effect on our lives and the direction of this country. Instead of powerful politicians making decisions out of the public view, it would be healthy for "We the People" to influence Obama's decisions on who should be in his Administration. Now is NOT the time to be silent...

People talk about the things that are on THEIR minds. Each person here is talking about the topics that interest each of us today, right now. When we speculate about appointments, we're giving voice to our hopes, dreams, concerns, and cynicisms.

On one level, it's just talk that we do here.

On another level, it does impact, perhaps negligibly, the body politic through the blogosphere.

The point is that discussion is good for many reasons.

Obama has access to information that we do not have access to.

He has first hand knowledge of the various people he needs to be able to work with and count on. We do not.

He has first hand knowledge of himself and who will best help him. We do not.

Winning the election was only the 1st step, not the fix. Now all we can do is wait, hope, work hard and keep expectations reasonable. It's a lot easier to fuck up something than build or rebuild. It took * 8 years to create this freakin' mess. It's going to take some time to get us away from the edge of a cliff we're hanging off of, out of the ditch * drove us into, over the guardrail * drove through, back onto the road and turned around in the right direction. Not gonna happen overnight.

it would sure make things simpler if we did.

I think he has the capacity to be a great president, and god knows we need an FDR right now. Let's give him a chance before we start tearing him down shall we? BTW, Michelle reminds me of Jackie Kennedy a lot.

He's smart, no doubt, and that's refreshing, but we cannot simply sigh with relief and rest on our laurels, assuming Obama will take care of us.

It is never too soon to begin making our expectations known. We can't choose his cabinet, but we can remind him constantly that we expect a progressive agenda from him, not simply a continuation of the last eight years.

You put it perfectly and I have nothing to add.

Seeing how he managed to get elected, in spite of his superficial disadvantages, I'll trust that he knows what he's doing.