What if the documents are false but the charges are true ?

The documents are not the primary story. But whether or not the charges are true? It appears that they are indeed true, because the WH has not discounted the charges - only attempted to discredit the documents- or let their surogates discredit them. Screw the documents! I want to know if the stories are true or false. And I want to hear it from George W "fucking" Bush! Enough bullshit and running around in circles and lying. Are these stories true or not? They will continue to say evry document is a forgery or fake if it looks like it may do them harm. This friggin' media that we have is a disgrace. They call themselves journalists. They should be cleaning toilets in Iraq. Where's the press conference? Where are the aquestions to the Whie House? They will end up asking John Kerry about whether he thinks Bush's records are fake before they will ask Bush himself. They are fucking unreal!

To prove that the chickenhawk-in-chief went AWOL. There is overwhelming evidence that he did, even without the memos.

adn the accusations are true. we have always known it

that actually proves he was not AWOL. They can do this until corruption is PROVEN unfortunately.

Guard, where he honorably flew the honorable Convair F-102 Delta Dagger with honorable skill and honorable courage. This is why he was honorably discharged with honor. This proves he honorably discharged his honorable duty. Honorable. Honorable. Honorable. Honorablest!

Questions?

Uh, Mr. Press Secretary, when you say "honorable," do you mean "by the book?"

The honorable record shows the Honorable President honorably discharged his honorable obligations to the honorable guard of this honorable nation. If you would honor my answers, we could get through this much more honorably.

What do you make of the writings released by CBS news and reportedly authored by Commander Jerry Killian, in which he wrote that he had been asked to sugar-coat the President's service record, and in which he connects the President's missed physical with the missed physical of the President's friend at the time, who also missed a physical?

The Honorable President completed his honorable service in the honorable Texas Air National Guard, which is honorable. Texas is big, really, really big. That is honorable.

What is not honorable is trying to makes heads or tails of the writings which were signed by a man who is not here to testify today, because he is dead. It is not his fault that he died, but you in the media must not honor any of the things he apparently signed, because he's not here.

Meanwhile, where is the recognition of the Honorable President's honorable service?

Are you saying that the President's actions throughout the time period in question were honorable and therefore unimpeachable?

I am saying the President honorably completed his duty and this is why he was honorably discharged then and this is now and we have a lot more to honor including the honorable victims of terrorism and the honorable civilians who fight back and the honorable President and Vice President and their honorable families.

What about the "strip alert" of F-102s that took place in then-Lieutenant Bush's unit, while he was away working on a campaign in Alabama and not flying? Which honorable men flew in his place?

Why is this all coming out now 46 days before the election???

It would have been 106 days ago, but you seem to be exploiting the variety of sixty-day deadlines built into the Freedom of Information Act before you have to honor the law.

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* italicized words are merely hypothetical utterances of BushCo and are intended to be incredible on their face.

long, and has spent way to much effort to build up his credibility to chance scrap it all on one story. Not to mention do it at almost the end of his career. He's retiring soon ya know.

upcoming article they're humping on their web site that, apparently, addresses just this question. Kind of surprising that USNWR would point out the legitimacy of a particular document was irrelevant when there are other source for the information and just ask the question, but apparently they intend to.

Edit -- Atrios has linked to it, as well, now.

is so disappointing. They are not journalists. They are traitors to their profession. They stink...

There was no compelling reason for anyone to forge documents that simply detail what we know to be true already, that babyBush failed to take the required physical and lost his flight status and did not serve out his contract. There must have been documentation by his superiors discussing and commenting on his performance and failure to take the physical and failing to show up to fulfill his obligations and requesting transfers.

If Killian had failed to document these matters, then he was incompetent and totally neglected proper procedures and oversight, which no one is claiming.

and half the people believe them false and half believe them true....it's a stalemate...and we have talked away another election

By denying the documents, he could, in effect, deny the stories and take them completely out of the campaign.

And that is the main tinfoil rationale I have for thinking that this whole thing might be a latter-day "Plumbers" operation out of the Bush camp. The issue was out there, so they met it in a manner which they were certain to win.

I don't think your rationale is made of tinfoil. I think it might be made of titanium.

No one knows where the docs came from originally. What if they came from the actual records -- records that Rove has always known about?

And what if Rove KNEW those documents were were going to come to light soon and calculated that he could defuse all the damage they'd do by creating a diversion about them?

And what if Rove created that very diversion by RETYPING THE ORIGINALS in MS-Word before sneaking them, first, to the Kerry Campaign, which refused them, then to CBS, which accepted them as authentic because they already KNEW that the content of the memos was true and that such documents DID (at one time) exist?

That premise would account for everything that has happened so far.

Rove is certainly Machiavellian enough to know that the MS-Word fingerprints would undoubtedly be detected and immediately elicit charges of forgery -- diverting attention from the actual content of the memos.

And one does not have to be as Machiavellian as Rove to know that if you are going to forge typewritten documents, you do so on a typewriter --- not a computer.

So in a way, if it turns out these documents WERE created on a computer, it proves their authenticity. True forgeries -- forgeries the forgers wanted to permanently pass off as authentic -- would certainly have been done on a typewriter of the period.

take away another week where Kerry should be getting airtime to discuss domestic issues.

I really think Rove is become obvious - look at the path the "is it a forgery" lies made it into the media -

It is exactly the same path used against Clinton (for which editor Len Downie at the Wash Post still refuse to say "sorry")

Real Docs - real events - and a real plan to take the week away from Kerry issues.

and the carpet is blue?

But no problem, because the carpet got an honorable discharge? :)

Yesterday (on MSNBC I think) I saw some pundits debating the truth of the documents. Bob Novak said he thought that CBS should reveal their sources. However when it was suggested that he should reveal the source of his outing of Valerie Plame as a CIA operative, he shut up. Then Bill Plant wrapped it all up by stating "What is undeniable is that Kerry volunteered to go to war in Vietnam. Bush, the son of privilege, did not." I think that says it all, right?

Truth is irrelevant to the media these days. They merely propagandize.

The documents are real and the charges are real. That has been proven over and over again! I suggest you go back and look over all the proof before asking IF question!

they are secondary to the "real" story. The debate should not be about the documents as much so as about whether the charges are true. And no matter how much documentation comes up, they will deny they are real...they are fake....they are forged......etc...So long as they can divide the camps into two divisions, it doesn't matter. The press has to do their job - not just CBS. But on the other hand bullshit.

it's what the people can be convinced to believe. And just because everyone here knows the truth doesn't mean that that's what the average voter will believe - in the end, that's what's important. And sadly, the average voter doesn't care enough to look under grandma's dress to find out for themselves - they're satisfied with listening to sound bites to determine what to believe. So if the documents are fake, I fear that the public will conclude that the charges are fake as well - as well as doubting the accuracy of anything that comes after.

So I think it makes a big difference if the documents are fake. I sincerely hope they aren't.

Years ago the fake press would have been brought up on treason but now they are the right arm of the repugs and they are allowed to lie as much as they need to.