Master stroke by Harry Reid in my opinion...

Congressional dems all along wanted to use TARP money for this. Reid, STANDING UP for union workers refused to let them get rolled by forcing them to do what no one else involved was being asked to do. This has all been a game by Republicans trying to break the Union...and it didn't work...

Now the White House is going to do what Reid and the Dems wanted all along...

Had he been weak he would have given in to Repub demands the Union take an immediate pay cut to foreign worker levels...a sacrifice no one else was being asked to make...

... http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x4638794

A total failure.

Unions have already made the concessions the White House wanted...

Frankly, some restrictions are needed. Detroit had been avoiding needed reforms for decades. Any bailout needs to force them to modernize.

I'd like to see top executives take a huge paycut too, not just the token "dollar-a-year" men among the multimillionaires in the one top slot at each company.

We should be grateful

to run the Senate. Couldn't even round up enough Democrats.

He is leading a 50-50 Senate...

He did a very good job with what he had available...

if for nothing else round up your votes. Force the Repukes to filibuster. Not only did he not round up the YES votes. He had several not even vote. No sense in making excuses for a weak leader. I use to do that too.

Simply give the Republicans a platform to bash the Unions on TV....delaying the money...

This way, Repubs in the Senate look like obstructionists ...and Bush of all people throws them under the bus...

They only look like obstructionists if they are forced to Fillibuster

You simply give the Repubs the national spotlight...which they use to blame the unions 24 hours a day

If the filibuster lasts for days and days...TV won't be just focusing of the guy at the podium, (who will eventually repeat himself endlessly and boringly, or start reading from phone books)..They will have to explain what the Repugs are fighting for.. and believe it or not, most Americans don't want people to lose their jobs, healthcare and pensions..

The Repugs will be exposed as toadies for FOREIGN companies, who would rather see American Auto Companies VANISH than have the unions survive.

They will self-destruct.

those were the only Dems who didn't vote. Unless he gave Kennedy cancer I fail to see his blame here.

There are not 60 Democrats in the Senate.

and get the political win.

Which they use to bash the Union 24 hours a day...

Yeah...good idea!

:sarcasm:

Americans are NOT anti-union, and an anti-labor filibuster would be political suicide. Reid should have forced this.

It seemed odd to me that they were willing to give up and adjourn so quickly. I am now wondering if Reid did not really want to have the votes, but just wanted to make it look like he did not have them, in order to force Bush to use TARP money. That would make sense given the fact that I believe they had enough votes if they really wanted them, especially if Reid used a literal interpretation of the Senate rules that say "3/5 of duly chosen and sworn" senators, not a hard 60. With 99 senators 3/5 is 59.4, which rounds down to 59. If Reid had waited for Kerry to get back from Poland and pushed the 3 Democrats who voted no harder he may have been able to get to 59.

follow through on a filibuster. Until then he is a waste of space. He didn't stand up for anything, much less Union workers. He sat down.

And for the Union...

Ask BofA how well appearing anti-labor worked for them earlier this week.

He has not often been lucky

I would rather have a leader that leads, not one that depends on luck

down from his position.No democrat should ever allow something like the travesty that has been going on,to occur.If you think he was smart enough to plan for the treasury stepping in you're nuts.

Reid got EXACTLY what he wanted...

Repubs in the Senate looks like idiots...

They lose their national platform to bash the unions...

And Bush throws them under the bus by doing what Dems wanted all along...

I still say Reid is a weasel and needs to go.

not the most articulate / charming / charismatic...but level headed

Harry should make the repukes filibuster. He is by far the worst and weakest Majority Leader in my lifetime.

Thoughts on the Bailout Flameout
A few thoughts on this morning's news.

Not surprisingly, with this morning's news, we're getting more than a few emails arguing that the Democrats, in their new position of strength, should weaken or entirely do away with the filibuster -- i.e., invoking the nuclear option that Republicans repeatedly threatened through the earlier part of the decade. Despite the extremity of the moment, though, I just can't agree with that. It is just bad practice -- especially in the face of the last eight years -- for numerical majorities not only to use the power of their numbers in straight up votes but to change the rules of the game itself. Notwithstanding the fact that filibuster has been increasingly abused, it was wrong in 2005 and it would be wrong now.

What I do think makes sense is for the majority to actually require the minority to filibuster -- as in talk and talk and talk. We've arrived at a point in which it's become standard, even in the most contentious of cases, for the minority to be allowed merely to signal the intention to filibuster rather than doing the actual thing itself. Filibustering is a tool of obstruction. It's a critical right of the minority in the senate. But it is, by definition, obstruction. So it makes sense to put the obstructionists to their task, make them do it publicly. I don't know why the Democrats are not doing that in this case.

Finally, this issue now goes well beyond the fate of the American automakers. Senate Republicans are following this course for three key reasons -- first is payback against a major industrial union; second is payback against states like Michigan and Ohio who have been moving away from the GOP; third is the desire to advantage Japanese auto manufacturers who disproportionately do business in their southern states.

What even the White House can see at this point is that having one or more of these companies go under right now will rapidly accelerate the economic crisis, and in unpredictable ways.

--Josh Marshall

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/

Would backfire here...

Would give the Republicans time and more importantly air-time to continue their campaign to blame the Unions...

Again, you profoundly misunderstand the nation's attitude toward unions. As do the republicans, and we should've forced their hand on this.

And yes it was a generalized strategy...it was not specific to this situation...he was generalizing about making the minority actually filibuster...

A very bad strategy in this case

He explains what a filibuster is generally, but is very specific about why it should be used in this case; specifically, because it would force the republicans to stand on the floor of the senate and talk and talk and talk in a way that would be politically suicidal.

Yes, let's filibuster and talk about how evil the American worker is. It worked so well for them last month in the election.

It would have been an outstanding strategy if Reid had the backbone to force the issue. But he didn't.

Both for PR and because it would delay a resolution to the crisis...

From the article



He does not distinguish between this case and any other...he is advocating as a strategy in all cases...

In some cases it may be a wise thing to do...in this case it is not...

Lame attempt, too.

If you read the entirety of his post, as well as his other posts on topic today, there's nothing general about his argument at all.

It would've been a brilliant strategy--forcing them to cut their own throats politically, while asserting our strength as the majority simultaneously. It could have been a master stroke on Reid's part, but it was not.

But that's okay; capitulating to the republicans has worked so well for us this last two years, why change now? :sarcasm:

Was specific to this case...

You can read it it any way you want but that doesn't change what it says

And yes it was a master stroke...

Satisfying the desire of the blogosphere for a little red meat is not his job...

But as you are logic-impaired, I don't see much point in debating this further. Enjoy your Reid-worship; god knows he'll need what's left of his fan base now.

of the TV guy Colmes that gets hammered by the right wing all the time.

Harry is using the sneaky "give the Pukes the rope to hang themselves" strategy he and Pelosi are good at, but too many Dems seem to want vicious confrontation, as if symbolism is more important then results. :eyes:

I wouldn't be surprised if the Dem congressional leadership planned this all out before hand with elements in the White House.

:crazy:

The Senate needs to find a face saving way out for Harry Reid- he looked and sounded pathetic yesterday, and it'll only get worse when the Dems have more seats and he still FAILS to get measures passed.

The record is clear and speaks for itself- the man is simply not up to the job, especially in these trying times.

Exactly what do you suppose Harry Reid could say to Bob COrker and Mitch McConnell that would suddenly make them see the light...

He played it the only way he could...he protected the union and will still get the bail out


As I suspected was his plan all along

then senators who crossed him on this would KNOW that there'd be consequences for their states down the line if they didn't get on board.

Unfortunately, due to his repeated capitulations, Reid has no such credibility- so it's no surprise that people don't take him seriously.

The instant the repukes came up with the political hatchet job of blaming the workers is the instant he should have put forward a bill calling for each and every member of the senate to take a wage equal to a line worker at the big three. Each and every senator should have also taken a cut in benefits to what they demanded from hard working Americans.

If it is wage warfare the republicans wanted it is what they should be given. Reid stood up for absolutely nothing now Bush will ride in and do what that waste of human flesh could not accomplish.

And it sickens me to no end to see the Democrats in the senate have once again proved to be no friend of the working class.

With the economy...

Ridiculous...


He protected the union, short circuited the Repukes efforts to demonize the unions and is getting Bush to throw Senate Repukes under the bus...

Only at DU would that be considered a defeat

Playing politics with what? Forcing the republicans to vote on exactly what they wanted for hard working Americans is not playing politics with the economy. It is forcing their hypocrisy into the open and playing hardball.

Unless you can explain how making the republicans follow through on what they want and exposing them to America effects the economy you fail just like Reid.

I thought the point was to protect union workers and save the auto industry...

Silly me!

And what's with the cursing...?

I don't how he got this position in the first place.

please, be our guests. Because, of course, bloviated partisan douchebaggery worked really, really well for the Republican Party. Yeah.

:sarcasm:

Give me a break. Harry Reid is a fucking coward. He didn't have the balls to prevent votes on FISA or even force Republicans to use the filibuster. Harry Reid is our Neville Chamberlain.

"douchebaggery?" They are the ones who are using the tactic!

All he's doing is making it costless for them to threaten a fillibuster. It's as if he upped the requirements for passage from 51 votes to 60 votes. If you were them, wouldn't you threaten to fillibuster EVERYTHING if the result would be to automatically inflate the votes needed for passage without having to expend any effort or political capital?

Reid is a spineless coward. Oh dear, they might fillibuster and that will make me wet my pants! Maybe if I send another strongly-worded letter ..."


:puke:
:puke:
:puke:


A strong, EFFECTIVE leader throws their bile back on them. Dare them to fillibuster. Invite them to do so, so the whole country can learn how they, the privileged ivory tower dwellers, think American workers make too much money.

Then we will see change. Until then it's just more corporatism at its finest.

And attempts to unilaterally infringe on negotiated workers rights held at bay. Well done, Senator

:puke:

Reid needs to go, ASAP. He can take Pelosi on the way out.

I hope he does, but when people start putting pressure on Paulson, I don't think the white hats are gonna have the same pull as the union busters will.

that failure to make bullies get down on their knees and change their ways is not necessarily an indication of weakness. That's the evil of the Republican strategy; they behave like sociopaths, out only for their own good, and when Dems can't "stop" them with equal measures of self-centered narcissism, they are called weak.

I'd like to see Dems get their pr strategy together; go on the attack more, spin the issue around, not react to the Puke attack but ignore it all together and come back with an equally strong, albeit based in reality, counter punch. In this case, focusing on how national health care would have allowed the auto makers to be competitive, were it not for the CEO salaries and bonuses, would be a great way of using the Puke obstructionism to further the Dem agenda.

I personally don't want a party of sociopaths. I want to put an end to the ways the Pukes are not called out on their lies, their hypocrisies, and their Anti-American behavior.

It's the media who doesn't do their job here, as the fourth estate, of informing the public properly. We need to deal with that and have leaders who can get their message across in the media in an effective way. Reid has never been very good at that and Pelosi not much better. That doesn't mean they didn't handle this well. At least the Pukes didn't get what they wanted -- an end to unions. What a disaster that would have been.