What we have learned today

That Obama is an evangelical.

Rick Warren is a moderate.

There was not a better alternative to Rick Warren.

This was a stroke of genius by Obama. We have built a bridge right into the heart of Republican base!

Freepers are already upset over this pick so why should we feel the same way?

If we do then we must be stupid or freepers.

:argh:

I feel like I am in the Jesus Camp.

But it started off great!
:thumbsup:

It's about seeing this for the pandering it is, which many people have missed. Obama wants to unite everyone to implement his policies, but he simply CANNOT appeal to fundies. Nor should he try to, because it only turns off the rest of us. Exhibit A: DU as it looks right here and now.

Let's see it for what it is: An epic-fail attempt to unite everyone. Obama will see soon enough how big a failure it is, when he starts dealing with Congress and sees how many RW'ers will not work with him, no way, no how.

We also have to keep our eyes on the prize: Working on solutions to get this economy back on track. You can't win a war by complaining about losing one battle. You regroup, get past it, and start fighting again.

We also have to face some facts that so many have missed:

* Obama is NOT a liberal, but a centrist who wants to work with both sides of the aisle.

* It wasn't progressives, but SWING VOTERS who got him into office. Progressives always vote either Democratic OR for a third-party candidate. RW'ers always vote for a Republican or (rarely) a third-party candidate like Ross Perot. So those numbers rarely change. Swing voters decide every single election, and this time was no exception. The general public, NOT just Dems/liberals, voted for Obama.

While the choice of "Reverend" Warren is appalling, people need to stop thinking that Obama somehow decided to deliberately "betray" Dems. What he's done is make a pathetic attempt to reach out to people who don't give a damn about him. It's stupid, it's not going to work, but it's not a deliberate attempt to offend us.

It's just like the situation that arises when any other person tries to "fit in" with a group that doesn't want to accept him. He ends up looking like an idiot, and pisses off his old friends, who feel deserted.

The thing is, when you're Barack Obama, everything you do is magnified a thousand percent.

What Obama needs to do is remain true to HIS nature as a left-centrist, and stop attempting to woo the Far Right. If he had done so, none of this would be happening.

results in advancement for Gay rights at the ballot box,
when a majority is required for success.

And... if everyone is nice to you, and doesn't ruffle your precious feathers, you may agree to grant some of those rights?

How sweet.

And by "sweet" I mean "get over yourself." :hi:

and outreach has nothing to do with being "nice"...just like your "sweet" wasn't something nice said by you about me personally.


http://urbanthoughtcollective.com/2008/11/11/where-prop-8-went-wrong/



http://www.ebar.com/news/article.php?sec=news&article=3514
Rick Jacobs, who's gay, is the founder and chair of the Courage Campaign, an online organizing network that helps over 300,000 activists to push for progressive change in California.

Jacobs said that on the Friday after the election, his group asked people to sign a pledge urging the repeal of Prop 8 by 2010. By the following Monday, more than 50,000 people had signed the pledge and now, about two weeks later, more than 300,000 people have signed, said Jacobs.

He said the Courage Campaign wants a million people to sign, and those people will be contacted to help gather signatures, and have house parties and meetings all over the state in preparation for taking marriage equality back to the ballot.

Jacobs said his organization helps people like Vincent Jones, a 32-year-old gay man in Los Angeles wants to include people of color, straight allies, and others across the state in the fight for equality.

"I look at Courage's role there as shining a light on what Vincent is doing and giving him online organizing tools and introducing him to other people," said Jacobs.

Jacobs said his "bottom-up" organization raises funds through online contributions as little as $5. "We have thousands of contributors, but we need thousands more," Jacobs said. Jacobs volunteers his time with the group, but part of the money will also go to paying at least three full-time organizers $2,500 to $4,000 a month.

Jacobs said it's "a really good thing" there's not just one group leading the movement. "We need to see lots and lots and lots" of people in all communities, whether they're younger, straight, gay, or people of color "do what they're doing to stand up and organize." The wrong thing "for any organization to do right now is to put a cap on that," he said.

And how'd that work out?

Personally, I don't believe that it should be up for a vote.
I think that it should be a matter decided by the courts only.

But that doesn't stop what is happening.....

They all learned to channel, direct and use "outrage, controversy, resentment, and anger" in ways to change outcomes at Ballot Boxes, in courts, and in the public's mind.

Good OP :thumbsup:

Leave us alone. We're having fun.

:crazy:

Anger is fine and understandable, but I have seen people comparing Warren to HITLER. :rofl:

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

Rick Warren Not Satisfied with Making Abortions 'Rare'

Attempting only to make abortions “rare” is not much different than saving some of the Jews during the Holocaust when all could be saved, according to megachurch pastor Rick Warren.

“Of course I want to reduce the number of abortions,” Warren told Beliefnet Editor-in-Chief Steven Waldman when asked if he was going to work with the Obama administration to achieve an abortion reduction agenda or if he thinks that the effort is a charade.

“But to me it is kind of a charade in that people say ‘We believe abortions should be safe and rare,’” he added.

“Don’t tell me it should be rare. That’s like saying on the Holocaust, ‘Well, maybe we could save 20 percent of the Jewish people in Poland and Germany and get them out and we should be satisfied with that,’” Warren said. “I’m not satisfied with that. I want the Holocaust ended.”

http://christianpost.com/article/20081217/rick-warren-not-satisfied-with-making-abortions-rare_pageall.htm


Social Gospel is 'Marxism in Christian Clothing,' Says Warren

Best-selling author, social activist and megachurch pastor Rick Warren described the social gospel supported by many of the mainline churches as “Marxism in Christian clothing.”

“(W)e don’t need to care about redemption, the cross, repentance. All we need to do is redeem the social structures of society and if we make those social structures better the world will become a better place,” explained Warren as he described the beliefs behind those who support the "social gospel," in his interview with Beliefnet.com, which was posted Monday.

“Really in many ways it was just Marxism in Christian clothing,” he criticized. “t was in vogue at that time that if we redeem society then man will automatically get better. It didn’t deal with the heart.”

Warren, recognized as one of the most socially active Christians in the world, did not hold back his criticism of those who call themselves Christians but seek to make the world a better place by focusing on the body – issues of poverty, disease, social justice and racial justice – and not the soul.

http://christianpost.com/article/20081216/social-gospel-is-marxism-in-christian-clothing-says-warren.htm

Ugandan Media: Rick Warren Denounces Gay Rights

Dr (Rick) Warren said that homosexuality is not a natural way of life and thus not a human right. "We shall not tolerate this aspect at all," Dr Warren said.

Warren was speaking in support of Ugandan Anglicans who intend to boycott the forthcoming Lambeth Conference, and this harsh rejection of tolerance for gays and lesbians may have serious consequences in a country where homosexuals face harrassment and and the threat of imprisonment.

Warren's comment is of a piece with his support for Martin Ssempa, the Ugandan evangelist who has been a keynote speaker at a Warren conference, and who has received US global AIDS prevention funds. As I wrote in August, Ssempa wants to ensure that homosexuality remains illegal and that gays and lesbians are identified in the public mind as sexual abusers. Ssempa calls for media censorship against opposing views and the dismissal of dissenting academics, and last summer he organised a rally with the theme "A Call for Action on Behalf of the Victims of Homosexuality", at which he railed against "molestation and sodomy."

http://www.talk2action.org/story/2008/3/30/54825/1882

and some think that less than one would be ideal.

Let's see. There's more.

Anyone speaking out against human rights abuses is simply guilty of "hate." That post is right here in this thread.

:thumbsup:

Their whole SisBro on the DownLow routine is EXACTLY WHY 2 MEN or 2 WOMEN CAN NOT GET MARRIED. WHERE WILL IT LEAD TO?!?!?

or Saddleback

Yet again, Biden can't make a decision.

has very good thoughts on the subject of Warren saying a prayer.

It's a potentially ingenious move by Obama, akin to: "Say your famous- to- be prayer and then forever hold your peace. STFU"

You're an Obama Basher if you're against Warren.

Oh! And: it's only a prayer, he's not making policy.

... who are foolishly pre-occupied with small, unimportant matters.

:crazy: :crazy: :crazy: