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The amount of bitching about Obama on here is stunning today.

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jakem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 10:04 AM
Original message
The amount of bitching about Obama on here is stunning today.

Not even from the trolls, but from the seething and disgruntled underbelly of DU.
Honestly, give the man a chance here before you sharpen your daggers.

He is not trying to win over DU. He is going for bigger game.

Obama has vision. This is why he was elected.
How about giving him a chance to get started?

And before you start the kvetching- yes, of course. express your discontent. email the O-team. whatever. But spending all freaking day saying how betrayed you feel? Please.
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John Q. Citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 10:06 AM
Response to Original message
1. You go ahead and sit around and hope. I'm sure that will work just as well as it always has.
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jakem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 10:08 AM
Response to Reply #1
5. The error in thinking there-

Is that 'hope' is equivalent to inaction.

And that whinging is a sort of action.
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John Q. Citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 10:17 AM
Response to Reply #5
16. If by action you mean 'let Obama do it and stfu' then I bet that will result in
the same thing it always has.

Or do you see a different outcome, this time?

Please explain the difference between actively hoping and inactively hoping.

Thanks.
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jakem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 10:20 AM
Response to Reply #16
21. Do we really need to deconstruct 'hope'?

I did not say "actively hoping" I implied "hope+action"


'hope' does not negate action. it empowers it.


just like whinging does not inspire action, it destroys it through the cultivation of indifference.
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WhiteTara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 12:09 PM
Response to Reply #5
57. your thoughts are as cogent as your
spelling.
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jakem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 01:32 PM
Response to Reply #57
70. spelling? pray tell, what did i misspell?
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WhiteTara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 04:41 PM
Response to Reply #70
74. unless this is a new word
whinging
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jakem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #74
76. google is your friend.

whinge (hwnj, wnj)
intr.v. whinged, whing·ing, whing·es Chiefly British
To complain or protest, especially in an annoying or persistent manner.
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LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 10:07 AM
Response to Original message
2. Are you honestly that clueless?
Edited on Thu Dec-18-08 10:07 AM by LostinVA
And, I don't think the "bitching" if from any underbelly. Actually, the majority is from Obama Primary Warriors. Guess they are all secretly PUMAs, eh?

:eyes:
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chascarrillo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 10:11 AM
Response to Reply #2
10. Anyone who looks at my posting history will see how pro-Obama I was.
To an even nasty degree, I'm ashamed to admit. But you know what? I didn't invest so much in Obama only to see him select a bigot to a high-profile role in his inauguration. I supported him during the primaries because I expected better from our politicians, and then he more than fit the bill. I criticize him now for the same reasons. I expect better.
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LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 10:13 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. You're one of the posters I was thinking about when I wrote that
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derby378 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 10:07 AM
Response to Original message
3. I'm not bitching, but he DID run on a platform of "Change"
I think Obama has made some bad decisions on who will speak on his behalf. But I'm still hopeful that Obama himself will see the Republic through the tough times ahead.
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jakem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 10:11 AM
Response to Reply #3
9. You know, I don't agree with all his choices either.

But I was not asked.

I am guessing that he has put even more consideration into his game-plan than we have.



Some of the change need to come from our end as well.

he is clearly trying to quell some of the divisiveness of SOP. it seems to be working. He has a 75% approval at the moment.


Think he wants to spend this capitol in progressive ways? I do.
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chascarrillo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. Your idea is that we need to change and support bigots?
Edited on Thu Dec-18-08 10:14 AM by chascarrillo
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jakem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 10:15 AM
Response to Reply #11
15. very constructive, thanks.

I think that attitude will really get us farther down the road.
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chascarrillo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 10:18 AM
Response to Reply #15
18. If you want to go down a road hand-in-hand with a bigot, you go right ahead. I'll take another way.
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 10:29 AM
Response to Reply #9
31. What's progressive about supporting FISA?
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WhiteTara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #31
59. or GMO or ethanol?
no, we are not blasting down the change hiway. We have detoured into old territory.
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chascarrillo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 10:08 AM
Response to Original message
4. This is a choice that he made about his first fucking seconds in office.
And you know what? He fucked it up.
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SeattleGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #4
54. 'scuse me, but he's not IN OFFICE yet.
Just sayin'.
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John Q. Citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 12:05 PM
Response to Reply #54
56. He's in the transition office and making decisions that will effect all of us. He has an official
title. He's PE Obama and that gives him real power and responsibility.

People shouldn't even consider giving up their right and responsibility of holding our leaders accountable and responsible. The very suggestion that citizens should do nothing is offensive to me.

Just sayin'...
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chascarrillo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 04:21 PM
Response to Reply #54
72. ... which is why I used the verb tense that I did.
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pecwae Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 10:09 AM
Response to Original message
6. Truly, what's it to you how posters spend their time here?
There's a hide thread function and ignore if you're offended by people voicing their opinion.
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Deep13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 10:10 AM
Response to Original message
7. How is expressing discontent and "kvetching" different?
Obama has selected someone who amounts to a Christian witch doctor and con artist, who actively opposes rights we support and who subverts the Constitution by directing how people should vote. It really is the moral equivalent of giving the honor to a minister with Klan connections. Besides, those of us who value secularism and are suspicious of religious encroachment onto public policy are mortified by the selection of such a lightning rod of the Evangelical clergy.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 10:11 AM
Response to Original message
8. No it isn't. On Warren, it's happening around the blogosphere and beyond.
People are being critical of one pick or another. Concerns are being raised, and those that are valid shouldn't be lumped into the bogus concern trolling.

It's understandable that people, including the blogs that focus on high speed rail and trains, would be concerned about Obama picking a person (a republican) who has spoken out against it.
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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 10:14 AM
Response to Original message
13. I still have faith in Obama but when red flags go up, they go up.
The environment is and always will be my biggest concern of the next administration, and when Salazar was chosen over someone like Grijalva for SOI, that sent shivers up and down my spine. And I'm sure my red flags are nothing compared to some of the other people around here. Oh well, maybe it will all work out.
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dbackjon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 10:14 AM
Response to Original message
14. Vision?
No, it is not vision.

And anyone that can not see this for what it is, a horrid choice needs to open their eyes.
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QC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 10:18 AM
Response to Reply #14
19. No, it really is vision.
If we define vision as "triangulation so cynical that it would make even Bill Clinton recoil in horror."
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jakem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 10:21 AM
Response to Reply #19
22. Oh Jesus Fuck. The melodrama is a bit much.

series.
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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 10:31 AM
Response to Reply #22
35. Mirror. nt
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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 10:17 AM
Response to Original message
17. Get used to it
Pelosi and Reid were made into villains when they came to power. Expect the same for Obama.
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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 10:19 AM
Response to Reply #17
20. No. Pelosi made herself a villain when she jumped into bed with Bush
right after the 2006 election where we won the majority back. We didn't make her a villain. She made herself a villain.
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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 10:27 AM
Response to Reply #20
24. What specifically did she do "right after the 2006 election" which was so reprehensible?
:shrug:
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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 10:30 AM
Response to Reply #24
34. I guess you don't remember what she said about impeachment n/t
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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 10:34 AM
Response to Reply #34
36. She said that impeachment was "off of the table" months before the 2006 election
Democrats Won't Try To Impeach President

By Charles Babington
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, May 12, 2006; Page A06

Seeking to choke off a Republican rallying cry, the House's top Democrat has told colleagues that the party will not seek to impeach President Bush even if it gains control of the House in November's elections, her office said last night.

Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (Calif.) told her caucus members during their weekly closed meeting Wednesday "that impeachment is off the table; she is not interested in pursuing it," spokesman Brendan Daly said.

more: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/05/11/AR2006051101950.html
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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 10:39 AM
Response to Reply #36
40. She promised to take it off the table the day after the election. Wake the fuck up
http://www.nytimes.com/cq/2006/11/08/cq_1916.html
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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 10:43 AM
Response to Reply #40
44. How shocking that she would keep a promise she made MONTHS BEFORE the election
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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 10:47 AM
Response to Reply #44
46. How disgusting that those were just about the first words out of her mouth
the day after the election.
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Grinchie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #24
68. Freddie Stubs - DLC Apologist
Take your defense of Pelosi and stick it where the sun don't shine.

You are falling all over yourself trying the give arguments why acquiesing to Bush was the right thing to do.
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John Q. Citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 10:28 AM
Response to Reply #17
28. Yep. After all, giving retro active immunity to telecoms and bush for spying is
extremely progressive, democratic, and Democratic, apparently.

Instead of the heroes welcome Pelosi and Reid deserved for saving the right of our government to spy on us without warrants, they were treated like dirt.

Go figure.
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WillParkinson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 10:22 AM
Response to Original message
23. Ooooh, we're the "underbelly"....
Thanks from the bottom of my heart. Really.

Sorry, when some POS campaigns to deny rights of my brothers and sisters and me and is then given a center stage I find it a slap in the face. Don't ask me why, I don't know really. I mean, hell, this letter http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=221x100204 says it much more eloquently than I could.

We see Mr. Obama has no problems slapping gays and lesbians around. When will he start with blacks, jews, women....?
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 10:27 AM
Response to Original message
25. Another man who doesn't care about misogyny. La di dah....and "bitching" is sexist. nt
Edited on Thu Dec-18-08 10:28 AM by MookieWilson
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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 10:30 AM
Response to Reply #25
33. you win the hyper-pc post of the day award.
Edited on Thu Dec-18-08 10:31 AM by dionysus
you probably think the water cooler in your office is sexist somehow...
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QC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 10:28 AM
Response to Original message
26. Use the hide thread option.
Unless, of course, you just want to do some bitching of your own.
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Somawas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 10:28 AM
Response to Original message
27. Obama must be held accountable.
If liberals and progressives fail to hold Obama accountable then we are no better than the Bushistas. A crowd of leader worshipping ass monkeys. Forget that.
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TechBear_Seattle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 10:29 AM
Response to Original message
29. And that vision includes giving a prominent national platform to a sexist homophobe
You will excuse me for being part of "the seething and disgruntled underbell of DU," I'm sure.
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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 10:29 AM
Response to Original message
30. it's a mix of bitter hillary supports and kucinich types.
the tears are just flowing from them today.
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LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 10:40 AM
Response to Reply #30
41. No, it's mainly Primary Obama supporters and everyone else who doesn't like bigots
Edited on Thu Dec-18-08 10:41 AM by LostinVA
Hillary has nothing to do with this. It's... odd you think she does.
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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 10:42 AM
Response to Reply #41
42. no, it's a mcclurkin primary rehash.
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jakem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 10:43 AM
Response to Reply #42
43. bingo.
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LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 10:47 AM
Response to Reply #42
45. Take off your blinders
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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 10:52 AM
Response to Reply #45
47. just so you know, i don't like the warren choice a bit either.
Edited on Thu Dec-18-08 10:52 AM by dionysus
i just think the perpetual outrage over everything obama does is passe.

and it's hard to believe this isn't carry-over from the primaries
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John Q. Citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #47
48. I don't know how many doors you knocked on for Obama during the campaign, but i
knocked on hundreds and I called hundreds and I personally organized tens of people to call and canvass.

I was knocking on doors for Obama the day Bill Clinton came to Stevensville, MT campaigning for his wife.

I'm a straight white single dad.

And I want to know why Obama wants to throw me under the bus? Why won't he find one capable experienced progressive and put him or her into the cabinet? It's all corporatists. it's all Blue Dogs, DLC, and Repos.

Why don't we get a seat at the table also?
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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 11:08 AM
Response to Reply #48
49. i agree with everything you said.
i loathe the DLC and corporatists. But I'm tired of being pissed for 8 years and want to at least see how this begins to play out before i wig out over it.

peace
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PVnRT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #42
60. Wrong
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #42
61. McClurkin was, as we see, simply the opening act
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TankLV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #61
66. Sadly, that seems to be proven DAILY...
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TankLV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #42
64. Which we're STILL waiting for an apology from...
And rehashing mcglurkin is EXACTLY why we're so fucking upset - BECAUSE IT'S MORE OF THE SAME!!!
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pecwae Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #30
69. Bogus and overused statement
coming from posters who want to keep the primary flames fanned. HRC and DK primary supporters are not the ones keeping the bullshit alive and labeling anyone who criticizes the PE as 'hysterical', 'whining', 'bitter'.
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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 10:30 AM
Response to Original message
32. "Please" yourself. I don't think the "bitchers" are the underbelly. nt
Edited on Thu Dec-18-08 10:33 AM by glitch
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tomp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 10:35 AM
Response to Original message
37. go jump in a lake. nt
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jakem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 10:36 AM
Response to Reply #37
38. ah, there is that rapier GDP intellect shining through.
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tomp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #38
55. tit for tat, oh, witless one. nt
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elocs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 10:36 AM
Response to Original message
39. The attack and "constructive criticism" mode is all that some DUers live for. n/t
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progressoid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 11:28 AM
Response to Original message
50. Well...it is a political discussion board.
So, ya know, what didja expect?
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Akoto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 11:33 AM
Response to Original message
51. I didn't expect the unity to last more than a few days post-election.
Edited on Thu Dec-18-08 11:37 AM by Akoto
Without any Republican candidate to aim at, people start attacking their own. Happens with every election.
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TexasObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 11:42 AM
Response to Original message
52. Sometimes more cheerleading is not the answer.
Some decisions matter more than others.
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Posteritatis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 11:43 AM
Response to Original message
53. I don't find it stunning, and that depresses me (nt)
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alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 12:10 PM
Response to Original message
58. There's a simple solution
Edited on Thu Dec-18-08 12:11 PM by alcibiades_mystery
Its opportunity will come around in the Spring and Fall of 2012.
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TankLV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 12:47 PM
Response to Original message
62. Another fucking apologist trying to defend the INDEFENSIBLE...
So us GBLT should just sit down and shut up, huh?

NO FUCKING WAY.

I'm so sick and tired of people like YOU...
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roguevalley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 03:44 PM
Response to Reply #62
71. don't worry, honey. His ox will get gored and we will have to allow
him to wheeze it all out. Hang in there, TankLV. Stand up and say your piece. This is America. I think.
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 12:47 PM
Response to Original message
63. Pathetic. You, not the bitching.
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thewiseguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 12:49 PM
Response to Original message
65. What is stunning is that you fail to get it.
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leftofthedial Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 12:52 PM
Response to Original message
67. He's not even President yet, fercrisake!
So stop defending him!
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davidpdx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 04:22 PM
Response to Original message
73. For some people, bitching and moaning is hobby
and they do it so well.
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 04:42 PM
Response to Original message
75. Remember the guy that got trampled to death at Walmart?
Sometimes unimportant stuff gets stuck in DU's craw and festers there.
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