What did so many of you DUers think Obama meant when he said

he would reach across the aisle?!?!? Obama is a great man and an outstanding leader. He did not lie when he said he wanted to unite the nation. Nor was he intellectually dishonest, like Georgie boy, and think that reaching across the aisle meant he would welcome anyone that agreed with him. Obama has pledged to be the President of ALL Americans and look for common ground. He promised to try and unite this badly divided nation. Nothing good comes from not talking and treating those that don't agree with you as the enemy. We only need to look to George Bush and his last eight years to see that. So Obama tapped Warren. He is just going to be saying a prayer, not set our nation's policies. The thing is Warren's views on gay marriage and abortion are terribly wrong. That doesn't make him a horrible person, that should be treated as a criminal. It means it is someone that needs to be enlightened. You will never get him to see the truth if you treat him, and the sizable percentage of Americans that agree with his views, as evil people to be ostracized.

Obama is showing great moral leadership and I think it would do us all well to follow.

supporters to hell is okay with you?

What is his user name at DU?

Good one!

And I missed it?! :shrug:

Hillary thinks you exaggerate.

What does Hillary have to do with any of this? Is she forcing the President Elect to have Warren participate in the inauguration?

Obama beat Hillary, so certain Hillary supporters who could never warm up to Obama (i.e. the above poster) go extra hard after Obama whenever he does something they don't like.

The good news is, Hillary has moved on, even if many of her supporters haven't.

It's mindless hate filled comments like this that prove the claim that liberals and conservatives are simply two sides of the same coin. I for one like to think liberals are morally superior to conservatives, despite the fact that so many DUers are acting like their freeper counterparts.

Is it their pacifist beliefs?

They will never see the truth because they have their blinders on.

And giving them center stage merely enforces their belief.

I've said it many times and I'll say it again. Read this: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=221x100204
then talk to me about the inclusion and common ground.

It's mindless hate filled comments like this that prove the claim that liberals and conservatives are simply two sides of the same coin. I for one like to think liberals are morally superior to conservatives, despite the fact that so many DUers are acting like their freeper counterparts.

;)

thanks for proving my point.

whoops

delete

lighten up dude.

it was either "asshole freeper" or "childish freeper", i really don't care if you posted that because you misunderstood who i was replying to.

Who is it okay to hate, and how much of it ought to disqualify one from a place of honor?

your posts are dishonest and malevolent

book to slam him. usually in the guise of righteous rage and concern. it's transparent and pretty sad.

and i wasn't even replying to you.

I thought you were replying to my post, rather than the flame bait.

delete

But unfortunately at this point not all Americans want him to be the president and could care less about looking for common ground, and that's reality!

I have to wonder how many times would you have to be bitten by a dog before you realized that it doesn't like you?

It is bad in here. I've seen really nice DUers called homophobes.

I'm having a donut, please help yourself if you like.

I've got bananas and granola around here, too, if you prefer.

:donut:

Maybe the chocolate would lift my spirits.

And it's warm!



nom nom nom nom

and inflexible as the worst freepers. This Warren issue has exposed that fact.

this warren issue has exposed ASSHOLES like you. :puke:

completely uncalled for.

a tiny, tiny, worthless speck.

you're a self-loathing tool.

rather than acting like an asshole.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

that it's only a FEW people doing this.

It's embarrassing.

You and a few others, zulchzulu for example, are doing a good job of trying to explain with examples but it will not work.

I have some nieces and nephews who behave the same way.

I'm going to have a donut.

:donut:

:shrug:

People expressing their sense of hurt and betrayal by this embrace of bigotry... are themselves being intolerant?

The rationalizations, the contortions some True Believers go through in order to quash any criticism... it's disgusting.

imagine wanting to act in a morally superior way to freepers and republicans. Imagine showing tolerance and flexibility. Imagine trying to find common ground.


I can see why you are so disgusted

I honestly don't know if I could explain it to you in a single post, but here's a few points I'd emphasize:

1. Asking a friend to reject bigotry and intolerance is not itself intolerant.

2. Warren's views on gay marriage do indeed make him a horrible person

3. A poster replying to your OP with an analogy or extreme example (KKK invited to inauguration, for instance) is not hate-speech, nor a "strawman." It's an effort to illustrate their point in a compelling way, and isn't that what having this discussion is all about?

4. Expecting a friend to preserve the friendship, even as he makes new friends, IS a vote for inclusiveness. Swapping one friend for another is divisive, and there's nothing "morally superior" about it.

just like George Bush. So I am not sure how I can explain to you why you are wrong. It's like trying to explain color to someone that has been blind all their life.

Because I don't see the world in black and white as you do -- Obama is right! Criticism is wrong! -- I'm therefore guilty of... seeing the world in black and white.

And... I'm just like George Bush!

Crazed. I'm kind of doubting your sincerity at this point. Your arguments are so off-the-wall, I suspect it's just a little show you're putting on for your own amusement.

I mean, no one could actually be so self-righteous AND so laughably misguided in their reasoning, could they?

Oh, wait... :yoiks:

agree with and are incapable of besting in logical debate. Well good luck clinging to your hatred and intolerance.

... onto those who disagree with you?

You've got THAT tactic down pat, you really do. You use it a bit clumsily, true, but make up for that with sheer repetition.

It's a got a familiar feel, this style of yours. All too familiar.

are already doing enough of that.

would you be telling minorities and jews to sit down and shut up about it?

People fought for the right for his father to marry his mother and produced HIM. Yet he is giving a position of honor to someone who would bar many of his supporters from doing the same.

There is nothing wrong with standing up and telling our leaders when and how they are fucking up.

we will discuss it. Otherwise your point simple distracts from the fact that so many DUers are acting just has hate filled, intolerant and inflexible as your average freeper. It's clear that there are just as many DUers as Freepers that are responsible for our nation being so badly divided.

If and when he does it we can discuss it.

He's done it to gays and lesbians *TWICE* but when we discuss it we're hate filled, intolerant and inflexible.

I try to maintain an even keel on these boards. I do not speak ill of people because my parents raised me better than that, I hope.

However, your illogical attitude is quite puzzling. I'm asking you to compare the events. This is in no way a "strawman" argument. I'm asking how you'd react if this happened. Apparently, though, you're too inflexible to consider any position other than your own.

Your post is pretty much lacking in any fact or sound logical positions.

If Mr. Obama is so inclusive why do we not see any anti-other people groups other than anti-gay? Simple question.

It must be comforting to live in such a simplistic black and white world.

Unfortunately in a more intellectually challenging world, one can see the shades of gray. One can wrongly be opposed to gay marriage with out being against gay people. Those people fail to realize and appreciate that they are taking away a basic human right of the gay population. Misguided people can be made to understand their mistakes, but not be treating them as evil people. Your approach to dealing with misguided Americans is the same beligerant and misguided approach Bush used in his foriegn policy.

Nowhere did I make the comment that you're attributing to me. I asked why, in his call for inclusion, we do not see anti-Semitic groups, anti-black groups, anti-Asian, anti-whatever types of people.

And, by the way, denying gay people of a basic human right IS anti-gay. You can call it misguided if you want, but it's a direct action against a specific group of people.

If only you could see your own posts objectively.

Is this some kind of performance art you're doing here?

Or do you honestly believe you're making a reasoned, consistent argument against criticism of Obama's embrace of Warren?

:wow:

you act just like your typical insult spewing freeper. sigh...

How about, "I'm rubber, you're glue, what bounces off me sticks to you"?

Seriously, people have tried to reason with you but you insist on remaining impervious to reason.

You insultingly invalidate points of view that don't match your own... then accuse people of being insulting.

You act like a thick-headed, opinionated Freeper... then declare your opponents Freepers.

Whew. You're sure not doing Obama any favors. But maybe that's the point.

Good grief.

like calling a large man tiny?

:eyes:

your choice of screen names was quite ironic.

The more close-minded and intolerant you are, the more you accuse others of same.

The more you make apologies and allowances for bigotry, the more you accuse your critics of bigotry.

What's next? You going to tell us you're being oppressed by the very people whom bigotry oppresses?

Or haven't you read that chapter in the playbook yet?

Obama's efforts at inclusiviness and tolearance and open mindedness, the exact opposite. You really need to put aside your emotions and start really thinking about the issue and its implications.

Sorry- equal rights is one thing that I will not be quiet about.

That doesn't mean I am against Obama, it just means that I think he is making a huge mistake that is very hurtful to many of his supporters.

otherwise these illogical and emotional counter points would not be your only weapons.

And you have the audacity to call others, "illogical"?

being opposed to marriage does not equal being anti-gay. To suggest, as you do, is just not correct or intellectually honest. There are many misguided people who are not anti-gay but they don't understand their position is taking away a fundemental human right for gays. I suggest you learn to be more open, intellectual, honest and willing to see the world for the shades of gray it is.

that sounds pretty anti-semitic to me.

Discuss. :popcorn:

The wailing and gnashing of teeth begins when reality kicks in.

Just search for posts made between January and June of this year. You'll see.

During the primaries I endorsed a different candidate.

When it became a choice between Ms. Clinton and Mr. Obama I chose none of the above.

When it came down to a choice between Mr. Obama and Mr. McCain there was no choice. Mr. Obama got my vote.

I do not dislike Mr. Obama. I have found some issues on which I will agree. His choice of Mr. Warren to give an invocation and bring this man who helped pass Proposition 8 is not one of them and I will complain about it quite loudly, thank you.

like rabid badgers.

I actively supported Obama. I still support him.

But he is pissing me off by bending too much in the direction of the same-old same-old while ignoring and occacsionally dissing progressives.

Oh wait, I don't need Obama to kiss my ass. I need him to be a great President.

long standing Democratic principles. (hoped it wasn't but I know it's coming down) No, I thought (still think) he was a fool. I thought he did it to GET VOTES. (still do) I thought it was of course practical. (still do) But Warren isn't on no damn aisle. He's just symbolic and making the people that actually voted for Obama feel icky.

and for change. I did not vote for compromising with them, reaching out for them, seeking common ground with them. I voted to defeat them and their policies that have taken us down this road. Obama happened to be the vehicle. I can still retain my opinions.

I voted for the (much) lesser of two evils. I see no point in compromising or reaching out to Repugs, whose policies have been AN UTTER FUCKING DISASTER.

Let me get this straight.

Marginalizing & discriminating against a minority group to advance a political agenda is 'great moral leadership'?

Am I in the twilight zone? There is nothing moral about picking a person who openly advocates against a minority community. This keeps coming up over & over & over, in all pro-Obama/Warren posts. And, this is alarming. It speaks to the acceptance of discrimination against the gay community.

People who would never in a GAZILLION years think it would be okay to field a speaker who advocated against black/jewish/women/pick a catergory rights think this is a legitimate concession to gain reputability with the right.

Think about that. Think about that long & hard.

I mean, no MORAL man would give a man like Warren a pulpit to stand on.

Moral leadership?

:rofl:

except that Warren is better dressed and has some media savvy.

play a key role in the inauguration. I think it is a pretty morally bankrupt move on Obama's part.

...but this leaves us in a conundrum:

Is this the kind of person we want to unite with? Do the people who listen to people like Warren want to unite with us? Who makes the first overture of peace? Freepers say there is no compromising with gays, muslims etc...do we compromise with them?

Do we trust Obama's judgment/instincts? After all, we want him to reach out to Iran, Venezuela, Cuba and all the others threatened by the neocons for the last 8 years.

...BUT...

While I wanted a UNITED States of America instead of the same ol' gay-bashing, racist, classist, sexist America. I wanted CHANGE. How do we get change if we keep inviting back the same people who hurt us in the first place?

Is this the so-called appeasement the freepers are always bemoaning?

...rather than inviting a Hater-In-Chief on the stage to lead us in prayer at his fucking Inauguration.

That Obama has been honest about the size of the tent he's creating doesn't make the Warren pick suck less, and it doesn't go far in easing the pain it causes.