My gay friends

I've had six very close, very smart, gay friends and four of them are FUCKING OUTRAGED at the selection of Warren. My best friend, "T" (I had him for a seemingly short 18 years when he died in 1995), would tell you, "Oh well, baby steps."

But he would also have said, "It's better today than it was yesterday."

My other dear gay friend is very grateful to be in the United States. She is from Israel and she "married" my late best friend, whom she helped die in dignity after he helped her get her green card. My friend "C" escaped from Israel and chose to come to the United States. I recently spoke with her and asked her about Warren and she said, "I could have gone to many other places, but this place is the best in the world for gay people. These people who fight over these things have no idea how bad things can be for gay people. They should all have to go to Israel and live with people like my father." We talked on and she agreed that the right thing to do is to keep on fighting. Slavery wasn't ended in a day. Women's and blacks' right to vote did not come overnight. The hearts of people like Warren will not easily be transformed. And I, for one, will not give up the fight.

Meanwhile, Rome is burning around us all. Bush is working his last minute wickedness, so much so that Obama and the next two Democratic presidents and Congress will have a hard time getting it all undone. Republicans are licking their wounds and descending to the next level to find someone far more evil than Karl Rove to send into the ring to mesmerize the mindless.

Focus on the enemy. :mad: Obama is not the enemy.

And that's all I have to say. Oh, except to Indiana. I facilitated the meeting of "A" and "T." They needed each other.

:loveya: :loveya: :loveya: :loveya: :loveya: :loveya:
:hi: :hi: :hi: :hi: :hi: :hi: :hi: :hi: :hi:

Just wish I had my best friend back. I miss him every day.

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:shrug:

(Please fix your message to reflect reality, showing Warren was picked by Obama to recite a 2 minute speech at his inauguration, thank you.)


That or if you're going to hang Obama by what his associates say, you're no better than the freepers damning Obama for his association for a pastor who ran around like a neutered gerbil, screaming "god damn America" and certain people of Muslim faith because everybody knows Obama really is a Muslim fanatic out to kill us all... :sarcasm:

:rofl:

:)

Miss "I have 800 people on Ignore"

Bad mistake lol!

:rofl: I assume you know about hitting the printer friendly format link in the upper left corner. that allows you to see ignored posts (so i have heard). I apologize ahead of time if you knew this already...

And she does know about printer friendly.

And it's a lie. Wow... I can't believe you wrote that.

Get used to it. Reality has left the building, much like Elvis. Though even reality didn't scarf down a package of Hostess brand ding-dongs before doing so.

Show me the quote. Show me something with Obama saying those words. Otherwise, it is a lie.

Show me where he said it. Show me where Obama said those words. Otherwise, it's a lie.

It was a misstatement. I meant people's pastor, sorry bout dat.

how to you expect to accomplish anything towards your goal when you

1) use lies to advance your argument

2) shit all over people who are fundamentally on your side?

13 minutes after you were called on it.

On edit: You were actually called at 9:42, 11 minutes later you edited out the lie you posted at 9:40, hence the 13 minutes which I struck.

People don't like to get in trouble, and can usually tell when their comments are going to get alerted (which often happens when you tell a lie)

If I make a mistake, I usually admit to it because I expect folks to call me on it, and they do, rightfully so.

I find it oh so much better to just fess up. Better for everyone that way.

No biggie.

Can we disagree with Obama, or express disappointment in something he has done, without it being characterized as considering him our enemy?

Can we disagree with the GLBT community and not be called bigots?
And its enemy?

It's the condescension that causes the problems.

I've posted that point quite a few times now, but a lot of people don't seem to be able to hear it.

I really hate the condescension, and being called an enemy of gays and a bigot just because I disagreed with some.


I too have posted that point quite a few times now, but a lot of people don't seem to be able to hear it.

That would make you a bigot.

Ok, I'm just gonna chalk this one up as another senseless personal attack.

that we should turn on Obama on this.

but I agree with you that we need to feel free to criticize him.

I think there are some folks on either side of the divide that are doing a lot of emoting and no thinking whatsoever.

And I hope you don't have to take care of me when I'm not too much older because I gave them a lot of money, wrote letters to my editor, and fought the oil business since I was 16.

Now peace be with you and me. It's not all a quick business.

He wears shades and drinks Coca-Cola.

and we're allowed to say that he is wrong.

...not the same as being their enemies. Are we not allowed to disagree?

Your disagreement isn't going to shut me up though. Obama isn't my enemy,
he's my President and he's going to hear from me, when he does well and
especially when he doesn't. Warren is a bad choice. I still support my
President. I also support my LGBT brothers and sisters.

Why a bunch of people think we think Obama is the "enemy" because we disagree with this choice is beyond me.

I can disagree with some of the GLBT community and not be called a bigot, a homophobe or otherwise slandered?

Well, now that's change I can believe in!!!

Enough with this endless repetition of an inflammatory talking point.

If someone has called you a bigot - geez as though THAT would be the crime of the century - and you have some big problem with that, go take it up with the person who called you a name or alert or WTF ever.

What does this have to do with the rest of us?

Let's say someone called you a bigot. So what? How is that a response to anything that anyone else is saying?

but I want you to know that my wife and I walked around with NO on 8 stickers on our jackets for a month, even when we were in our piece of shit conservative hometown.

I wish more people had the intellectual subtlty to view the issue like you do. I think it would be easier for them to back off of the trees for a minute and take a look at the forest.

Didn't you get the memo? Those rules don't apply any more.

Obama did NOT mean to hurt anyone's feelings or diss anyone. I am equally sure Obama did not pick Warren to send out some signal that he hates anybody or is demeaning them.

I agree. Obama is not the enemy!

I don't think anyone has said that Obama intended to hurt people's feelings, nor that he picked Warren to send out some signal that he hates anybody. Nor do I think that anyone said Obama was the enemy.

Of course, should anyone ever say any of those things, you are right on top of it.

That's all I want to know. He didn't pick a KKKer or a Neo-Nazi, tho I'm sure we could embrace them as well, since the idea is to embrace those who are different, no?

Close enough on short notice, plus I don't think he's doing anything with his life.

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or am I to be completely bowled over with that eloquence?

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Many of the straight people posting about this are focused on Obama, his postitions, his validity as a public figure, his validity as a liberal figurehead.

Many of the GLBT posters, and the straights who consider them to be allies, are focused on Warren, on the damage done to GLBTers' lives because of these decisions, and about the treatment they've received at the hands of other DUers.

Both sides are talking about different stuff.

When GLBT Duers complain about their treatment on DU, they, for whatever reason, get a shitload of replies about... Obama. Obama has very little to do with what GLBTers are talking about - yes, they're hurt about what Obama has done, but Obama is not the sole focus of their attention or their anger. They're mainly talking about Warren, about other DUers, about homophobia in general. Obama rarely even gets mentioned. Meanwhile, straight DUers who are upset about all the "outrage" seem to be super-worried about the damage that might be done to Obama because of the Warren dust-up.


I don't think the Warren situation will damage Obama. It will, however, negatively impact the lives of our GLBT sisters and brothers, and this, to me, seems like a more urgent situation than whether or not Obama gets a red x on his report card.

And not happy about it and I so understand how many GLBT can feel betrayed. I am absolutely furious about the damage inflicted upon us all during these last days of Bush. I would hope that we can somehow fix the situation where a lame duck president can do these executive orders without oversight or review.

What they are saying is that Obama should not have chosen him based on principle. Likewise, I don't know how anyone can claim that choosing him will cause us damage either. He's giving a prayer for heaven's sake. If everyone didn't have a hissy fit no one would have realized what was going on. We are shooting ourselves in the foot. So, until anyone can come up with one way that letting him deliver a prepared remark will adversely impact us, I fail to see what everyone's so worried about.

:eyes:

it was just some singing, for heaven's sake.

But Eleanor Roosevelt had the spine to not only resign her DAR membership but to arrange for Anderson to sing at the Lincoln Memorial.

That's leadership.

the notion this is the best country for gays is demonstrably false. Israel permits gay marriage as does Canada, Spain, and South Africa. Every single NATO country, aside from us, permits gay military service. Nearly every European country has full ENDA rights, plus civil unions that are equivalent or nearly equivalent to marriage. Here, not any of that.

"To criticize the Warren choice is to attack Obama!"

"To attack Obama is to hate America!!"

"ZOMG!!1! WHY DO YOU HATE AMERICA???!??!?1?"

industrialized nations on gay rights, they should, what? Have to go live in Iran?

Why not just rename the country the United States of Iran?