We Should be Thankful for the PUMA Viewpoint

When Hillary Clinton made her "celestial choir" comment I never took it seriously. I knew that there was much more to Obama's campaign than mere hero worship, I knew that there was a real grounded feeling of hope for change once the Bush administration comes to an end. I knew that the centrist policies of triangulation were not enough.

Now that I am seeing calls for unquestioning faith in Obama, the calls to just be quiet because everything will turn out fine, the posts claiming that Obama had some brilliant strategy of foresight leading to the current debate, and the claims that Obama has some magical power that will cleanse his administration of all evils.........I'm beginning to wonder!

I have not lost my faith in Obama as a leader, but I also think it could end up a tragic presidency if he begins to take the most faithful of his following too seriously, or if he takes his position as leader of the free world to be a sort of holy position.... well, just hope he doesn't make the same mistake as the previous president.

:popcorn:

That people already openly mowing down on Obama seem to be the only ones who find the "worship" threads... And never source?

Are we cultists just too blind to see or what?

This thread is disgraceful.

I'm trying to keep him grounded. Remember the saying, "absolute power corrupts"?

I'm wary about calling out specific threads, but I think its fairly obvious what I am referring to.

Do you have a link or something that would indicate that PE Obama might do that? :eyes:

Please, elaborate wherein Obama's on a holy mission or whatever?

And if he is... Think he'll dress like a Blues Brother?

but I do believe that he is only human and that others can have influence when it comes to this type of thinking. It's all relative, of course he will be guided by his spirituality to some extent, and perhaps by certain spiritual advisors...but there may be a threshold that should never be reached.

If we have that kind of power, then I say we use it for evil, and start the goddamned zombie apocalypse right here, right now.

I just found a great quote:

"Religious institutions that use government power in support of themselves and force their views on persons of other faiths, or no faith, undermine all our civil rights. Moreover, state support of an established religion tends to make the clergy unresponsive to their own people, and leads to corruption within religion itself. Erecting the 'wall of separation between church and state,' therefore, is absolutely essential in a free society." - Thomas Jefferson

He's not even in office yet, and his power is corrupting him? WHAT?

Not even worthy of comment.

:shrug:

Look at Bush!

celebrity bubble

no gettin around the bubble..

Please show me the threads or posts that claims Obama has magical powers..or to be precise in what you posted:

"and the claims that Obama has some magical power that will cleanse his administration of all evils"
EDIT... Let me add:popcorn: and IBTL

but some supporters are taking it a bit too far. Having mana does not guarantee that evil will have no influence.

But that was just plain weird..

I see threads stating how he's fucked up, will fuck up, surrounds himself with fuckups, etc. I guess we all see something different here.

I'm not going to link the threads, but there are statements like these on DU, implying that criticism itself is unacceptable, without regard for whether or not the criticism has merit:

"I say that it is never okay to attack your own candidate."

"Right now we really need to support him, in every way we can, instead of tearing him down."

And I stand by them. In fact, let me clarify for you: It's not good to shoot yourself in the foot!

who is shooting you in the foot. Especially if they can't commit to a date when they will stop shooting. ;)

The fact is that no one on DU is going to give you a date when it's okay to attack our candidate that we all worked so hard to get into office. You are not only not supporting our candidate, you are attacking him. And, you're not content to do it once or twice, but at least in this forum, it's over and over and over again.

I've stayed silent for a long time, reading these kinds of threads. I'm done now, with silence. It's time to stand behind our candidate. To think that it's okay to attack him even before he gets into office, as you and your friends are doing, is absolutely ludicrous. Surely, SURELY, it doesn't surprise you that the majority of DUers do not agree with your tactics?

I persist in wanting a date that equal rights will be granted, rather than "not now, not next year, not til everything else that is more important is done and the economy is solved."

and you persist in reframing this as me wanting a date when I can "attack our candidate" (to which you answer "never," leaving my original question unanswered.)

Let's agree that there are those who would stop you from attaining equal rights. Let's agree that those that would stop you from attaining equal rights does not include Obama. Let's agree that it does not include even most Democrats. THEN, let's plot a course of action.

Now, ask yourself, would that course of action include attacking Obama? The answer is no.

The fact is that you are framing the question the way that you do because you are angry. I don't blame you for being angry. I do blame you, however, for hurting everyone's cause, in pursuit of expressing that anger.

The issue here is not how this is framed. The issue is what YOU ARE DOING. And what you are doing is damaging both to everyone else's cause of freedom, as well as to your own.

You are setting your house on fire because you don't like the color of the couch.

"Let's agree that those that would stop you from attaining equal rights does not include Obama. Let's agree that it does not include even most Democrats."

Why can't we agree on that? Because OBAMA has said he opposes equal rights for gays, and has personally cited God's Will as justification for that belief. He's part of the problem. He's a problem in his personal belief, and in his using his OWN Microphone, let alone McClurkin's or Warren's, to send the message to the rest of America that he believes that god doesn't want gays to be married. So, you know, fuck him. He owns that.

And because the DEMOCRATS voted for and signed anti-gay legislation, and have signaled their intent to continue to discriminate for a couple more years, despite knowing that they will be controlling the house, the senate, and the presidency.

You seem to be in denial about the role of democrats in denying gay rights. "Better than republicans" is not the standard. "Supporting equal rights" is the standard, they are the majority party, and they are failing.

As for Obama, you clearly say "FUCK HIM." You almost got to that when it came to the Democrats in Congress, but I guess you held yourself back.

My question is why are you here, if not solely to disrupt, which it is apparent that you are doing on a pretty consistent basis.

and pointing out hypocrisy when politicians claim they are supporting liberal causes, but are in reality pushing a centrist and/or right wing agenda. Trying to push the party more towards Kucinich (who is also a democrat, in case you forgot).

And I, in turn, wonder why people are on DU if they aren't interested in influencing politicians, but would rather cheerlead and "wait and see" what they do, without ever criticizing, no matter what dumbass thing the politicians do. I guess their goal is to "elect politicians" moreso than push for specific policies. That's why I won't give to the DSCC, ever since I saw Chuck Schumer's comments on that regarding Lieberman, when he was saying their "purpose" was primarily to keep their own in office. Well, that's not my "purpose." It may be a tool, but not the end goal.

You know, coming here to criticize Democratic politicians is something that a disrupter does, right?

No one is here, solely to "cheerlead." We are here because we support DEMOCRATS. Support being the operative word.

We FINALLY won a solid majority in both Houses of Congress, and we won the Presidency. We've put up with a madman for the past eight years, who along with his Republican rightwing nuts in Congress, turned back or destroyed over 200 years of Democratic institutions and policies. And NOW you think it's time to criticize our Democratic candidate who hasn't even taken office yet?

Something is seriously wrong with this picture.

Don't you think that you can serve your cause better by attacking the opposition? In all of our posts, back and forth, you've never answer this question.

DU RULES: "You are permitted to criticize public figures, who are not protected under our rules against personal attacks. "

I know this is very hard for you to grasp, but criticizing a democrat for having policies that are too far to the right does not make a person a troll, it's not a violation of DU rules (unlike accusing someone of being a troll), it's healthy for democracy, and it's something that Obama himself supports.

I don't think that that is so much criticism as it is a statement of non-support for the Democratic candidate. They are two different things, you know?

And, really, once again, you could have waited until he was in office. I mean, geez, we're talking about an invocation.

And, you still have not answered my question. Why is that? Hmmmm?

I will never be on board with your "dissent is unpatriotic" message, sorry.

My message is not "dissent is unpatriotic." It never has been and you know that.

You are attacking a candidate that we Democrats worked very hard to put in office. You're attacking him before he's even had a chance to take office. And you're not content with merely stating your displeasure with his decision to give the invocation to someone you dislike, but you're attacking him over and over and over again.

Please understand that, as someone who worked very hard to put several Democrats in office, including Obama, that goes against my grain. It goes against a lot of people's grain here.

It's unfair, unproductive, destructive and disruptive. And I think you know that, as well.

.

You are brave Gunga-Din. I salute you.

just now appreciate that there are voices like that out there.

because their candidate lost? Those are voices we are better off without.

but because they had more faith in what Hillary stood for than the massive ego cult that they saw developing around Obama. I still believe, by far, that the advantages outweigh the disadvantages. I also feel that the cultish tendencies need to be kept in check.

Fuck the PUMAs!

I wish we had more latitude for posting their stuff here. I love crank literature.

Anyone who was actually a mmeber of the Democratic Party and a PUMA should be expelled. They are bigoted racist scum. Currently one of their lead bigots is calling for intimidating blacks to be banned near polling stations, for the voting age to be raised to 21 and compulsory ID checks on voting. Great for pensioners and minorities who do not drive (but also do not vote Rethug).

The only difference between the Klan and PUMA is that PUMA scum can not keep their sheets white enough because of the dribble they spew from their mouths.

I saw your thread this morning. People taking that kind of action need to be exposed and reviled. And expelled.

I love them really!

lol

Actually I am semi addicted to deliberately winding them up. It is sad that it is so easy. If your message does not end in how evil the Obama regime is the bigots on the PUMA sites will attempt to slap you down by calling you an Obot. Ooogh. How mighty bigot of them. They are completely and utterly thick ignorant bigots. Their heads explode when you criticise Plain, but according to them Caroline Kennedy is an inexperienced cow.

Personally they need to be advised that Palin will never get near the Presidency and if they get that through their thick bigot heads, when they slit their bigot wrists it upwards not sideways.

I have to say I question anyone who says they are anti fascist when they are promoting these scum. PatGund is far better at linking these shits back to StormFront and 9/11 truthers than I. All I know is that they are scary scum.

I was thinking back to the more innocent times when they were characterized more as radical feminists influenced by Hillary's characterization of Obama's supporters as a personality cult. My "appreciation" for them is more of a meta-appreciation of (one of) their purpose which was keeping the cultish tendencies in check and letting Obama know that he couldn't get away with demanding unquestioning faith from all sectors of the Democratic party. Reading more than that into my OP is being hyperbolic. As I mentioned elsewhere, the motivation for this post was as a response to another thread asking us to be thankful for something equally ridiculous.

Meta is tricky high wire stuff on the internets. I thought it was well done.

hell. They're worse than dead to me, the narcissistic sociopathic pieces of filth.

Ok, so you are either just bullshitting us or lived in some alternate reality where the puma idiots had any principles at all other than 'our candidate lost so we are going to try to spoil your candidate's chances'. Many were simply republican moles.

please note what I call the 'meta-appreciation'. Anyone familiar with my posts during the Primaries may know that I was one of the more viscious attackers of Hillary supporters in defense of Obama. At this point, I merely appreciate the purpose that they served in keeping the cult-like qualities of Obama support in check.

PUMAS probably started off with good intentions but somewhere the wheels fell off. PUMA-watching is a hobby of mine.

I feel bad that they felt they had to break away. But sometimes I can see why some of them were tempted.

:hug:

Your writing is some of my favorite on DU! :thumbsup:

;)

I thought that was the Republican Viewpoint, myself!
Now, I'm truly lost!

I do Remember that commercial!
Only the hypocrites forgot about their saint, Ronnie Reagun!

that's mainly what I'm referring to.

revolved around the idea of telling the party that they did not care what the result of the nomination process was, they wanted their way or the highway. Fuck them. Fuck them straight to hell.

:crazy:

I just wanted to get people thinking.



A nuclear gay.

Oh no! Please don't rec this thread too high...

What in the world is going on with you...???

a certain thread asking the LGBT community, specifically, to be thankful for Obama having Warren give the invocation and (even more irritating to me) to understand that Obama "opened the door" to our cause by appearing at the Saddleback debate and making the comments he made. You can see my specific responses in that thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x8043133#8043566

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x8043133#8043674

I just thought I'd give the people who unconditionally defend Obama a taste of what it feels like to be on other side of this type of argument, while pointing out the dangers of becoming too closely aligned with the Religious Right.

"align themselves with the Religious Right?" Does that make sense to you at all??

Not to be mean, but it sounds as if you may need to go lie down...

on the issue of marriage equality. He could have kept this mostly to himself, or he could have kept it within his private discussions with Warren, but instead he chose to use a very public, and popular stage to announce his beliefs. Many of "those who unconditionally defend Obama" don't seem to see any problem with this. Unless you can understand that I will not "go lie down", and I will not shut up about this, then your attitude is quite the condescending one.

And that's primarily because what you've said is not true in even the most perverse definition of the word "truth." You also seem very confused about what Obama's positions are.

Obama has already aligned himself with Rick Warren...on the issue of marriage equality.

Yes, that would explain why both Obama and Rick Warren himself have said repeatedly that Warren giving the invocation is an attempt to be inclusive of all Americans, including those OBAMA DOES NOT AGREE WITH on the issue of gay rights and gay marriage. The fact that you are confused about that is very strange considering the brouha on DU over this very issue for the last (painful) two weeks.

And the idea that people who "unconditionally" support Obama would be aligned with the Religious Right, again I ask, does that make sense to you at all?? REALLY?????

ON THE ISSUE OF MARRIAGE EQUALITY, citing his personal religious convictions no less. The Religious Right has taken the position that marriage is only between a man and a woman. Obama and many of his unconditonal supporters agree with this, ergo, they are also aligned with the Religious Right on this hotbutton issue. Why is the use of the word "alignment" so hard to understand? You can state that Obama opposed Prop 8 in his defense, but that doesn't really address the issue that his alignment with the religious right (on this issue) likely motivated many of his supporters to vote Yes on the initiative in California. Reaching out and being inclusive to the large population of Americans who feel this way is one thing, but actually aligning yourself with their belief is quite another. Frankly, I wouldn't have been that upset about Warren giving the invocation if it not were for this previous alignment.

Now, you've done it.

:popcorn:

or moved to the P/I forum. (PUMAs/Idiots)

pathetic.

I am seeing too many posts that are just like this. Saying Obama supporters are worshipping him or that we are stifling dissent. Sounds like the primaries all over again.

One guy makes a post saying Obama has positive vibes and you decide that means people are worshipping him. Lawd.

In other words, my favorite kind of gag.

:rofl:

:rofl: I would never do that!

And complete with a self-congratulatory popcorn smiley - "Ooh, look at the shit I'm stirring!"

:wtf:

I'm saying that any mortal might develop one after taking the position, especially at the "end of days" if you pay too much attention to the rapture crowd.

For fuck's sake, at least wait for him to take the Oath of Office.

I want a more perfect Obama.

Bill Clinton's sex life.

in civil rights--they're either bitter clingy fuckwits or cryptoracists. They don't give a fuck about anything but hating Obama.

I have much more respect for your average Freeper than I do for the smartest, most well-meaning PUMA.

.... one of the things that he prayed for was for God to help keep his pride in check.

Someone would only pray for that if they were well aware of the dangers of what being in the spotlight can do to your ego.

You dont have anything to worry about. ;)

Half of the primary voters wanted Hillary and half wanted Obama.

To me Obama is a very good politician and a smart man, but I don't get the adulation that some feel for him.

:shrug:

More than half wanted Obama. That's why he won the primary. Some of us voted for him not out of adulation, but out of pragmatism and expediency. I didn't participate in the last primary wars at DU, but I feel I have to state the facts. We'll all do well with the outcome, I'm sure.

Obama never closed the deal, the super delegates gave him the nomination. Neither Hillary nor Obama had enough pledged delegates to win the nomination without the SDs. Obama was ahead in the PD count by only 127.

Well, it's water under the bridge now.........

:eyes:

What the sweet HELL are you talking about??

Frankly I'm disappointed by the lack of flames.

I wasn't flaming you. We are on the same side.

They were so loud and noisy, apparently McCain thought they comprised more than .0000001% of the electorate!

Never, ever.

I've read (and written) "Lay off for a while", "He's not even president", and other such comments, but never "calls for unquestioning faith".

But plenty of concern over the existence of them. :eyes:

I must be missing something... :shrug:

separating themselves from sane society.

They don't deserve thanks, just glad the racists were exposed. They were ugly.

not all of them are homophobes, but it sure can attract a lot of the homophobic elements of the Democratic Party.

to the primary or general election, at which point the racists wrongly believed they were powerful enough to impact the outcomes.

the homophobic elements feel that they are now powerful enough to impact the future presidency.

even a remote possibility that will happen. Obama restated his position, and I doubt it will change.

As were many of their adherents on these boards.

on their opponents.

The Clintons themselves are the original PUMA object of hero worship. These drooling imbeciles even turned their ire on Ms. lewinsky back in the day, despite the fact that their Super Hero Bill Clinton was getting sucked off by women half his age in the Oval office. PUMA's are the biggest fucking morons on the planet, and the most pathetically servile to their Clinton Celebrity Cult.