Paul Begala: Pres. Bush is a decent man

okay, now this is an example why we lose elections.....my god, how can a man who misleads a country into a war without a plan that is causing so many deaths be adecent man? How can a man who refuses to get to the bottom of the matter as to who outed Ms. Plame be a decent man? I can go on and on with these examples.....STOP IT....BUSH IS NOT DECENT....HE IS A CRIMINAL THUG!

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Is he so desperate to keep his job at CNN that he feels obligated to fellate Bush at every possible opportunity?

and even though I think he's basically a decent man, he has LIED to the American people and MISLED this country."

Let's make sure we get the context of what Begala said.

Let's see how many bother to read your post before commenting on Begala.

DU is at it's reactionary peak.

No need to understand the facts about what happened. One sentence that merely suggests anything but hatred for Bush*, and that's all that's needed.

Thinking is hard!

but not when it is wrong....read the transscript and you will see that Begala never said Bush lied....NEVER.....

that Begala said that Bush lied has the burden to prove it....not me........However, I have no problem doing it if I know where to get it on the CNN website because I know I am right....

1. you started the thread with a "quote" from Begala that is unsourced.

2. The poster in question doesn't have the burden of proof because you brought the transcript into the debate.

and now, he refuses to explain why he left out most of Begala's statement

is not in dispute....everyone heard him say that Bush is a decent man....that was what my original post was about, right?

You advised us to read the transcript. I think you should provide it.

dennis is now claiming that the disagreement over "lied" v. "misled" is why he left most of Begala's statement unquoted, but that can't be true. How could Dennis know that someone was going to dispute that BEFORE he started the thread?

Why did dennis edit out Begala's criticism of Bush*, leaving only the part that sounded like flattery?

You claim that it's because the 1st part was undisputed, but that is obviously a dishonest excuse. You couldn't possibly have known that the 2nd part would be disputed BEFORE you posted.

all I said was that Begala said that Bush is a decent man...thats what bothered me....he could have said the wordst things about Bush after that it would not matter....but calling a man decent after what Bush has dome makes me mad and makes no sense....

he could have said the wordst things about Bush after that it would not matter

So the facts don't matter?

As soon as the transcript is up, I'll post what he said.

and remember we are looking to see if Begala said Bush lied

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BEGALA: Well, it's certainly negative for President Bush. I think it has been maybe the most scurrilous and dishonest thing that President Bush and Vice President Cheney have done, to try to conflate 9/11 and the war in Iraq. No serious person believes we would have had a war in Iraq if there hadn't been 9/11. That is, I think they used...

COOPER: But out of the convention, though, people's opinions were changed. I mean, you know, the number of people...

BEGALA: Right. They're being...

COOPER: ... supporting the war went up.

BEGALA: They're being misled. They're being misled to believe there was some sort...

BEGALA: ... of linkage -- no, they're foolish if they believe the president. I hate to say that. He's a basically decent guy. But he has consciously tried to conflate the worst terrorism attack in American history with Iraq, which had absolutely nothing to do with it. And God bless Colin Powell for having the integrity to tell the truth. Vice President Cheney knows there was no linkage. Once -- once -- President Bush admitted the truth and said there was no linkage between 9/11 and Saddam Hussein.

BEGALA: Anderson, we've got over 1,000 troops who've died in this war, and they died because the president told us there was a threat. They died because the president and vice president suggested there was linkages between Iraq and 9/11. It turns out, none of those things were true. Somebody should be held accountable for that, and if John Kerry can hold George W. Bush accountable for those misstatements, for that misleading, he's going to win the election.

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http://www.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0409/13/acd.01.html

Begala did not say Bush "LIED" although he came close to saying it. I knew I never heard him say the word, LIE. I wish he did...someone should just come out and say Bush lied about WMD....i would feel alot better.

to the American people and misleading the American people. He called them "scurroulous and dishonest."

Begala hammered them and there is no doubt that he was calling them liars, calling them dishonest, saying they were intentionally mixing 9/11 into the Iraq invasion.

But I get your point--that Begala didn't say the specific word lie while characterizing them as liars.

but for some reason a dem cannot come out and simply say that Bush LIED? They can never do it....like they are scared of the chimp. They just cannot do it. I was awaiting for Begala to do it and he was getting close but he just could not bring himself to do it....

How many times in 8 years did repubs and the media say that Clinton lied? like 181,818,383,838,383,838,374,765,475,858 times?

Most Dems try to avoid saying the actual word "lie" when it comes to calling Bush on his lies.

Most people can easily understand "Bush Lied, Thousands Died" like the bumpersticker I have seen many times.

Democrats need to keep it simple and it probably would resonate more with the average voter.

"even though I think he's basically a decent man, he has LIED to the American people and MISLED this country."

This is the man who has caused the deaths of thousands based on his lies. This is the man who has pushed this country to near insolvency with his lies. This is the man who has overseen an actual LOSS of jobs on his watch and has tried to sugar coat the unemployed's misery with his lies.

How much more indecent could he get?

Would he have to beat up a little girl, while strangling a puppy to be considered indecent?

WTF!!!!

and he never said Bush lied....on;y that the intelligence was misleading and never put the blame on Bush for it....


the poster who said that Bush lied is just flat out wrong....not sure how he could make such a statement....

He got to call Bush* a liar while making it sound like a compliment.

Haven't you ever heard of a back-handed compliment?

Here is one:

" I don't know how people can say that bush is uneducated. Gentlemens' C's at Yale would easily be genlemens' A's at a lesser institution."

That is a back-handed compliment.

It is designed to make the whole statement a joke on the recipient.

The statement, if accurate, was hedging.

It would be like saying, " I think Saddam is basically a decent man, but he gassed his own people and has helped terrorists."

No one would ever take your criticism seriously if you presented it that way.

No one would ever take your criticism seriously if you presented it that way.

No one believes the flattery. The criticisms are always given attention. That's why people remember things like how Churchill "complimented" a competitor as "a modest man, who had much to be modest about"

But no one took Churchill seriously, right?

This is the purported statment:

"ANYONE who believes what Bush says is a FOOL and even though I think he's basically a decent man, he has LIED to the American people and MISLED this country."

How is this statement served by the inclusion of :"
and even though I think he's basically a decent man"

The statement does not contain a hint of a backhanded compliment. It is perpetuating the idea that the chimp is somehow not entirely to blame in this mess.
It does nothing but blunt the effectiveness of the rest of the statement. It gives the chimp an out. He's decent, so what I say next should be weighed against that.

I have yet to see the actual statement, and I will somewhat reserve judgement of this particular "wimpifying" of his critique of the chimp if it can be attested to, or demonstrated that Begala was delivering a certain degree of sarcasm in his 'decent' remark.

Otherwise, he wimped out, and further perpetuated the idea that the chimp is somehow decent.

The statement should read like this:

"ANYONE who believes what Bush says is a FOOL.He has LIED to the American people and MISLED this country."

Tell me how it is anything less than a hedge to include the other line?

Edit: spelling

How is this statement served by the inclusion of :"and even though I think he's basically a decent man"

As you have made abundantly clear, it makes no sense to think the first part of the sentence was unclear. I don't know why you think anyone else would find it more difficult to figure that one out. Do you really think that there are people out there who are now saying "Wow, Begala must really like Bush*"?

You might as well have asked "How did Churchill's calling his opponent a "modest man" serve his insult?"

It's called "humor" and it helps the statement get attention and be remembered.

Will think he likes the chimp. I think people will think that Begala thinks the chimp is a decent man despite his distaste for fools who believe him when he lies.

I will have to hear the presentation itself to decide if he was injecting humor or sarcasm into his statement.

As it is written, he comes off as an attacker of foolish voters, and an apologist for the chimp.

in post 12

When the scripts are up, I'll give you my anaylis, Begala pissed me off earlier this past week when he called Kerry wrong for comparing the health care problems in the country to Jim Crow, post the transcript when its up, and I'll give you my full decision on this, I like to look at both sides.

:-)

I'll tell you my judgement when we see the scripts, wouldnt surprise me if Begala said what you quoted him as saying.

Anyone who believes what Bush said is a fool because Bush lied and misled us into a war where 1000 people have now died.

:shrug:

did not hear him say Bush lied....and if I am wrong then i will say I am wrong....but I did not hear it...

Why didn't you post the entire quote AS YOU HEARD IT?

You've already acknowledged that you heard Begala say that Bush* "misled", so why did you leave that part of the quote out?

THAT BUSH LIED...i was watching closely when he was talking and he NEVER SAID BUSH LIED....check the transcripts and you will I am right...and he never said Bush misled....just that the evidence of WMD was misleading....get the story straight please.

I'll keep checking for the transcripts.

i would be shocked and my ears need to get checked.....i heard him say mislead....but not that Bush mislead only that the intelligence was misleading....never heard the L word....

context does matter. They took Kerry's words out of context when they had him droning about cutting off heads, cutting off ears.

Ok, sometimes he's got a pair, but more often I find him to be only slightly better than Colmes.

I sent him an e-mail months and months ago, telling him to start acting like a real TX democrat, instead of just playing one on TV.

..praised Bush?

You might not like who you see on it.

The repuke talking points have been 'say something nice, look like a good guy, and then destroy! Glad to see Begala picked up on their modus operandi, and turned it around on them.
just mho O8)

Right....

Begala prefaces many of his comments with that phrase, and has been doing so for quite some time. It is how he phrases his particular form of "iron fist, velvet glove" type of argument.

Ever play poker with someone who compliments your style, only to find out at night's end he took you for 200 bucks?

Think about it, before diving into shallow water. :)

saying that Bush &co. got everyone to think that Iraq and 9/11 are connected.

I think we should thank him, if anything. Not attack him about the other thing. I don't know why he felt he had to soften his attack.

but i dont remember him saying Bush lied....only that someone should be held accountable in the government for the intelligence being so misleading....

who also believed that Bush* got an 11 point bounce from his convention.

you are way to nice to me....thanks a million...I cannot have an opinion? And if I hear something that bothers me and should bother all of us I should not report it here? Regardless of what you say Begala did say that Bush was a decent man....thats what he said....that bothers many here including myself....i have a friend who I went to school with who is now in Walter Reed Hospital now because bush is not a decent man....sheeesh....

"Cant we all just get along"

The part about how Bush* misled us about Iraq?

And if I hear something that bothers me and should bother all of us I should not report it here?

Editing out the context is dishonest. Why did you leave out the 2nd part of the quote?

Regardless of what you say Begala did say that Bush was a decent man....thats what he said

No, it's not what he said. He said (something like) "Bush* is a decent man, but anyone who believes anything he says is a fool because Bush* misled/lied about Iraq"

something like?

haha

He never said Bush lied..It's just make me sick when a dem says Bush is a decent man....that is why I started this thread....then someone comes along and says that Begala said Bush lied....and he never said that....that is my only point and the transcripts will show I am right....

Why did you leave out the 2nd part of the quote?

STATEMENT? - YOU KNOW, THE ONE WHERE HE COMPLIMENTS THE FUCKING IDIOT IN OUR WHITE HOUSE?!

Dennis's thrust is why can't dems just stay on message, and limit their comments to just CRITICISMS of the criminals? Why do they have to constantly praise and say nice any nice words about them - even if allegedly in jest - which, face it, IS LOST ON THE SHEEPLE?

Dennis is NOT refuting the 2nd part - he is emphasizing the FIRST PART - the part where he COMPLIMENTS the criminal! Back-handed or not, it's a fucking compliment!

Just stick to the cricicisms - you know, LIKE A FUCKING OPPOSITION PARTY!

Sometimes we are too subtle for our own good! Amerikkka doesn't understand subtle and nuance - they only understand straight talk - EVEN WHEN THEY ARE LIES AND REPEATEDLY POINTED OUT AS LIES!

And you and I and all the other posters here with half a brain KNOW the polls are phoney, BUT WHAT GOOD IS THAT WHEN THE WHORE MEDIA JUST MINUTES AGO CONTINUE TO PARROT THE "COMMANDING LEAD" OF "11 POINTS", ETC?!

The point of Dennis's post was sort of the reverse of "If you can't say something nice about someone...".

If you can't say something BAD about a repuke - KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT!

Is that a hard concept for the Democratic Party to understand? - It sure seems so to me and many others!

Here is the relevant part of the transcript:

BEGALA: They're being misled. They're being misled to believe there was some sort...

BEGALA: ... of linkage -- no, they're foolish if they believe the president. I hate to say that. He's a basically decent guy. But he has consciously tried to conflate the worst terrorism attack in American history with Iraq, which had absolutely nothing to do with it. And God bless Colin Powell for having the integrity to tell the truth. Vice President Cheney knows there was no linkage. Once -- once -- President Bush admitted the truth and said there was no linkage between 9/11 and Saddam Hussein.

BEGALA: Anderson, we've got over 1,000 troops who've died in this war, and they died because the president told us there was a threat. They died because the president and vice president suggested there was linkages between Iraq and 9/11. It turns out, none of those things were true. Somebody should be held accountable for that, and if John Kerry can hold George W. Bush accountable for those misstatements, for that misleading, he's going to win the election.


Conflate? misstatements? misleading?

And, of course, praise for colin powell, the liar at the U.N.

This is worse than the purported quote.

That "decent guy" line really pisses me off now.

He goes on to blast the chimp. There is NO REASON to have said the chimp is a decent guy at all. I see no back handed compliment. I see a guy who really wants to speak his mind, but who has been beaten and conditioned into always throwing a hosanna at the chimp for fear of retribution.

and that is why I posted it here....I took alot of heat for it.....did not realize how many Begala apologist there are here at DU.....but in the end it is obvious that Begala had no reason to say that Bush is a decent man. And he does this alot....makes me sick....he also has said that he is personal friends with KKKRove :puke:

but for some unexplained reason, he left that part out of his quote.

that BUSH mislead....as you kmnow many beleive, even dems, that Bush did not mislead but that the CIA mislead Bush....and Begala said that not one person in the government has been fired for misleading....he never put the blame on Bush for it....what did you hear?

Why are you arfaid to answer this question?

i will check in later.....not sure what you keep wanting me to address....i got a crying baby here and it is probably a good idea I go see what is wrong....gotta go....

WOW!!

It's the Ted Koppel method. You know, when Ted says something to the effect of, "Now, I know you're an intelligent person...", you know you've just been insulted.

Build, break, build. Nothing wrong with this.

I happen to think Kerry is more decent...

The Kerry guys had better do the COMPARISON thing...soon.

You Know, compare Bushies lifetime record/hostory to that of Kerries. and we see who the decent man is.

Kerry fights for the little fish as well asd the larger fish. He did things proactively that was unpopular but he remained steadfast in the belief he was doing GOOD.

WHar did Bush ever do that helped somebody??? other than his already rich friends/allies??

Can you see where the Kerry staff can go ith this??

A lot of snippiness here tonight.

The thugs he unleashed on Florida when his fucking party was in the midst of stealing the election in 2000; the 1000+ military personnel who have been killed because of his lies; the thousands of Iraqis who've lost their lives over his lies; the rape of our environment; the rape of our economy; and the list goes on and on and on. . . .