K&R if you are part of the Obama fan club AND a hard core progressive!

:bounce:

I think that I am making it much easier for the administrators to make a rule about it. It would be much easier for them to blame the ban on me than it would be if there were a heated thing going on between factions and they got everyone mad at them, because not many people are too into my posts. Or like if they happened to put the ban in place right after someone posted a thread about someone having lupus or spinal meningitis or cataracts or candida or something and wanting donations, except for it would be dubious, and the administrators wanted to shut it down for it's dubiousity, and people got mad at it because they believed the dubiosity. It's much easier for them to say "K&Ring is banned because of LoZoccolo". I am lending them an assist.

Actually I don't mind K&R threads too much, like too much to be annoyed by them, I just think that banning them would fit in with the 100 other rules on DU. There are seriously more rules on this board than any other I've seen.

I guess they must be pretty common-sense, because I only read them when I had my one and only (so far) deletion, to try to figure out what the heck I'd done. I was getting along just fine without reading them until that one incident. (It turned out to be linking to a "conspiracy" site, I *think* - that's all I could figure out.)

You really sacrifice for DU

I am a hard core progressive fanboy! :hippie:

Obama policies are not progressive. They are center right on military & economics and center on environment & social issues. So, I suppose you can be a die hard progressive and be a fan of Obama the politician. However, if you look at the policy & positions of Obama, he is far from a progressive.

I am more concerned about the policy.

Dennis Kucinich is a die hard progressive. Bernie Sanders is a die-hard progressive. Paul Wellstone was a diehard Progressive. Obama isn't in that club.

Instead, he just told it to Shirley MacLaine. It could have been a government experimental plane that no one should have saw (oops) or a real extra-terrestrial craft (I think NASA would have wanted to know) or a spy plane from a foreign country (which the government really would have wanted to know) or else he lied. My point is he is not a good leader. He can't execute. He doesn't make the right decisions.

It's nice to know that at least *one* of us will know how to follow orders when our new alien overlords arrive.

Of lies....

He makes excellent decisions. He is dead on right on nearly every issue of consequence. He draws his governing policy from a moral & human stance that is unseen in the majority of politicians.

Have you ever watched him on the floor? Have you ever watched him debate? He is incredible.

I hate to say this, but as a former DK supporter, I've come to realize that he does those things so that people like you can continue to donate to his campaigns. What has DK actually accomplished for his district? He's too afraid to even run for Senator or Governor of his state. Yet he runs for president every cycle. When it comes to debating rethugs, he slinks away and cannot hold his own in the debate (see Matthews interview from 2003). He is using you but will never get the things you want done done.

And he's still too lazy to pick up the phone and make fundraising calls to major donors. If a candidate isn't willing to take his own campaign seriously then he shouldn't expect me to take him seriously either.

support him even as a Rep; I just couldn't put my finger on why it bothered me so much.

You nailed it--all talk, no walk--and no leadership, either.

when Dennis was anti-choice. Why is it that so many seek perfection in other human beings? Do you think that Dennis Kucinich would be effective as a President.. as in capable of passing legislation? Does that matter? Or is it only what a person says that matters?

None, really. Just like you and me. Never will, either, so long as so many of us would rather kiss up to power, and vicariously feel like we then have power, than pull together.

"Center right" my ass. Clearly to your mind anyone left of Nader is "center right."

Look at his position on Afghanistan.

Look at his corporately dictated mandated health insurance program (and for the record, I am an RN who lives in MA - I know a thing or two about health care, and I live under the only mandated health insurance program in the nation that is set to be financially insolvent in less then two years because it doesn't address corporate profiteering). Look at his proposal for the economic stimulus that gives yet more tax cuts to the wealthiest among us.

I am in a bubble? I don't think so. You might want to look in the mirror.

:eyes:

Kucinich's entire '08 campaign was one big exercise in setting up hoops to prove that he's the most progressive Democrat in the race. If you looked closely, he had to keep setting up new hoops because Obama jumped through too many of his old ones.

Yes, you can pick out Obama policies that are less progressive than Kucinich's. But to call him center right is an exaggeration that ignores 90% of his platform.

:yourock:

:hi:

hahaahah! Love that album.

lol

:P

EDIT: Just put the mp3 on tho.

:rofl:

You're right: if you say something over and over and over again, it's TRUE!

You must be dismayed at the new and prevalent slap-down where people refute that Obama ever said or hinted that he was a progressive; apparently you weren't "listening" enough. That is, unless you're a member of the fan club even though opposed to the policies that seem to be shaping up...

He's a touch right-of-center, and that's MUCH better than we've had for quite some time, but just accept it: some people are going to be a bit miffed.

I'm crushed.

then shouldn't you find a new site? :shrug: My understanding is that DU is generally supportive of democrats.

then it must be true! Ralph Nader wouldn't have spent the last 12 years saying that over and over again if it weren't true. Right?

How will you maintain your cynicism if Obama delivers on the progressive points in his policy platform? Is it difficult for you when people point out Obama's long progressive voting history?

that disagrees with nothing in the OP.

"kewlkidz club membership" yet another snotty way to imply that anyone who has any issue with anything Obama's done or choices he's made thus far is a "hater"? "Cause that one's getting mold on it, too.

I trust that Obama will be a very progressive President, but neither you are I know if he will be until he's been President for awhile.

I'm guessing you're assuming he won't be progressive.

After reading this thread, and many others, it's funny to see what a disappointment Obama has turned out to be as President to so many - and he hasn't even been sworn in yet! How quickly some seem to have forgotten the absolute nightmare of the Bush years........

those recs are appreciated, but only 20? I hope that isn't an indication of the way that DU is trending, considering how many Obama fans there are.

:spray:

:D

:rofl:

:thumbsup:

I'm sure you're much smarter than him though. No one pulled the wool over your eyes with their talk about universal health care, fair trade, making it easier to organize a union and having a mass movement for change based on people working together in their community. You're ability to pick apart a half dozen or so minor policy differences makes you soooo much more savvy than the rest of us fools.

And it is all about who can be more self-righteous, isn't it? It is all about who gets to call themselves a radical activist and wear the Che t-shirt, and claim to be an enlightened and superior being.

Put me down and you can restore your position, your self-image. Of course, only a defender of the status quo "wins" by undermining and sabotaging everyone else, and only a person without an argument resorts to attacking the messenger. You are only winning to the degree that you identify with and defend the wealthy and powerful. Trying to convince us that the powerful people you identify with are kinda sorta like Che - you know, just a few minor policy differences - is a little silly, don't you think?

"Minor policy differences." Yep, that is all that stands between the modern Democratic party and the radical activists.

What does Pete Seeger have to do with this?

You're the one trying to be the bouncer at the doorway of club progressive. You're the one undermining the hope people feel by spreading cynicism about this movement. That's all you buddy. If you're against putting people down then what were you thinking when you posted that insulting picture? Does it make you feel superior to dismiss people as infantile dupes? If you didn't like my response then realize that I was only doing to you what you did to others.

Many posters have used my avatar in a red-herring argument but none have gone back to it so many times as you.

Trying to get the poor and middle class to unite around their common interests to fight against established powers is a goal pursued by radicals like Saul Alinsky for most of his life, and if you care to notice, it's a major theme in Obama's campaign.

Pete Seeger played at Obama's inauguration today. He sang This Land is Your Land with the two missing socialist verses. A formerly blacklisted communist just sang at a Presidential inauguration. And all you can do is keep shitting all over everything. What do you personally get out of doing that?

Obama is a catalyst for real change whether or not he passes your liberal purity checklist. The progressive movement is marching by while you sneer at it condescendingly. You just don't get it. I wonder if you ever will.

So if Pete Seeger playing at the inaugural is fraught with esoteric and profound meaning, then why is Warren's participation not?

The OP dishes plenty out, and can take it believe me. Probably getting a chuckle over my image.

"Sneer at it condescendingly" - ha, you are funny. I am responding to sneering condescension.

I am glad that we got the two missing socialist verses back. That has been a cause of mine for a long time.

"What do I personally get..."

Did you mean to say "are you now, or were you ever....?"

I don't have a liberal purity checklist, by the way, because I am not a liberal.

WTF does the word "progressive" mean anyway?

Obama seeks to bring in people with differing viewpoints to work on their common interests when possible. That's what community organizers do.

You wrote: "I am responding to sneering condescension."

No, you weren't. Not when you posted this insult:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=8099367&mesg_id=8099708


You wrote: Did you mean to say "are you now, or were you ever....?"

How fucking lame for you to insinuate that. Is that even supposed to be a point? Yes, I'd like to know what you get out of constantly denigrating Obama and the movement which is leading to many people taking action for positive progressive change. What's your angle? I don't care if anyone is communist but since YOU brought it up I respect people more when they come out and say it. I know there are a few here who like playing the stealth saboteur to undermine support for the Democratic Party. I respect their right to do so but they could at least be honest about their viewpoint. Spreading cynicism only alienates the cynic from others and dampens the movement's fire.

You know what's so significant about Pete Seeger today? It should be the end of the red scare mentality where so many on the left are afraid to say what they really believe. That's important because it helps create an environment where radical people's movements can grow without undue interference from government. If creating that environment is all Obama does then America will change dramatically for the better in the next four years.

For months and months the OP - and you as far as that goes - has gotten in all of the little digs, your little snide remarks, the put-downs, the insults and had a wonderful time doing it. So I got you back once. Now suddenly the shoe is on the other foot, and it's pinching your toes a little. Don't take yourself so seriously.

"Stealth saboteurs undermining support for the Democratic Party..." Sounds real scary. Keep on top of that one for us.

He's one of the last remnants of the Depression-Era Left.

In case you couldn't figure that out.:P

Anyone who suggests that Obama is ruling or making any decision at all (I think Michelle is planning all the meals right now) HATES OBAMA!!!!! LEAVE OBAMA ALONE!!!!

Sorry. Channeling again.

:bounce:

Not sure what your point is, though.

:shrug:

I think that before answering those questions we should be given the description that you think applies to those term.

who wants to accomplish things.

:headbang:
rocknation

:thumbsup:

K&R!

but no way I'll give any thread a rec that begs for one.

to be counted!

:eyes:

Why don't you just enjoy this moment getting Obama into the White House and stop trying to find people to insult?

Without a doubt. My God, no man is perfect!

:D

I just happen to not be a Marxist ideologue and thus believe change can come step-by-step democratically. That Obama has created a progressive mass movement of us young people is in many ways more important then his own stance on the issues. What is necessary more then anything else is the restoration of faith in government and that the average person is involved politically.

The fact that Obama is a vehicle for a mass progressive people's movement is more important than whether he meets all the requirements on a checklist of positions TRUE liberals are supposed to hold. It's a shame that some ideologues belittle what's happening because they can't concede the concept of a mainstream Democratic President being a real change agent. They're sneering at the movement while it marches by them.

Yes, direct action is important, yes a decentralized people's movement is important, yes electoral politics has its limitations, yes Obama needs to be pushed from the left, and yes the Democratic Part is often a disappointment. But, I don't believe that spreading excessive cynicism and unjustified negativity about Obama in any way helps promote the progressive movement.

...to create a more just system. This notion is incredibly dangerous and never leads to utopia, only to totalitarianism, which Europe learned painfully from 1917 to 1945. Such notions lead directly to Stalin, Hitler, and Mussolini, and might of lead to a Huey Long dictatorship in in the US had it not of been for Long's assassination. Let the system collapse and you are mostly likely to get not a utopia, but to fascists, thugs, and demagogues comming out of the woodwork.

The Netroots Left is leaving the 60s Left in the dust while at the same time the 60's Left screams in horror because it doesn't understand this new Left-wing movement. This is because the Netroots movement is far more similar to the American Left of the Depression Era, a Left of collectivism, unionism, political organization, and techno-utopianism. A kind of left-wing politics the 60's Left is too young to remember because it was purged out of existance by McCarthyism.

"thus believe change can come step-by-step democratically"

Katrina was the turning point, when the Spirit of America began the wake from it's slumber. We The People have been forcibly awakened from our stupor and we shall push for change.

:bounce:

:kick:

Does it mean you have to dislike Obama's cabinet appointments and Rick Warren? That's all it seems to mean here lately.

That's why I never use the term, I use "liberal".

:+

you'd have to suffer from cognitive dissonance to be both.

We are much like the Depression-Era Left, who unified around FDR while at the same time pulled him to the left. And Now Obama has all but directly demanded us to do the same with him.

you further the cause of your enemies.

That is, you'll learn if you can stay focused long enough.

i am, i know it's a brave position to take but i want to go on the record.

:rofl:

:toast:

Feeling optimistic.

Can't wait until Tuesday!

:thumbsup:

Given some of the shit that you've posted around here.

Sorry, but progressive and liberal aren't mutable terms that you can adapt at your convenience.