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MSNBC just reported that Obama will let the caskets of soldiers killed in Iraq & Afghanistan be seen

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jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-17-09 04:15 PM
Original message
MSNBC just reported that Obama will let the caskets of soldiers killed in Iraq & Afghanistan be seen
Edited on Tue Feb-17-09 04:18 PM by jenmito
I don't have a link. Jim Miklaszewski just reported that. "Now it appears that President Obama is willing to do that-to allow the American people to support and grieve for their fallen." That's how it SHOULD be!
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-17-09 04:17 PM
Response to Original message
1. I understand honorable intentions here, but I think the decision should be voted on by those...
who've had relatives killed or injured in Iraq/Afghanistan.

I don't think the policy should be decided by the Pentagon or Obama.
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Clio the Leo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-17-09 04:18 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. No DOUBT representatives of the families were consulted.
Edited on Tue Feb-17-09 04:19 PM by Clio the Leo
As a matter of fact, I would imagine Barack phoned some of them personally.
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-17-09 04:23 PM
Response to Reply #3
10. If so, then it's not fair to give those families more clout in the decision...
because they won the presidential phone call lottery.

My instincts are to permit it, but as I haven't got a relative even serving over there, it's not my issue or my call.

At Bethesda Naval I've met families with different views on this. Often different within families.

The military knows whose kin have been killed. Give a vote to every family, not just those who speak the loudest on the issue.
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-17-09 04:27 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. It actually seems like a very odd thing to vote on.
Edited on Tue Feb-17-09 04:29 PM by pnwmom
Do the members of the military vote on anything (except in elections)?
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Clio the Leo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-17-09 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #10
28. No baby doll, I said REPRESENTATIVES of the families....
.... that THEY selected.

And you do realize that even if there was a vote, not everyone would be happy?
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acmavm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-09 10:20 AM
Response to Reply #10
47. They are in the military. They were sent to fight to 'protect' the American
people from terrorists. The armed services are a NATIONAL asset (or at least they used to be).

This is right.
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barbtries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-09 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #10
64. it should be permitted
on a case by case basis, if the family indicates that they prefer it to be private, their wishes should be honored.
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alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-17-09 04:31 PM
Response to Reply #3
17. Families should have no say
Or, they can stop saying that their relative died for his or her country. If you die for your country, then your death is the country's. It is a PUBLIC event and no longer the province of mere family (i.e., PRIVATE) concerns.
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jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-17-09 04:19 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. There were lawsuits brought by relatives of those killed who wanted this done.
Edited on Tue Feb-17-09 04:19 PM by jenmito
Now it will be done.
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-17-09 04:21 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. Some want it, others do not. A lawsuit isn't a measure. nt
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mopinko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-17-09 04:33 PM
Response to Reply #7
19. well, when you are in the service and carrying out public policy,
i believe you should expect to lose a little of your privacy. but i am sure that anyone who chased the photogs away at dover, or at arlington, would have plenty of support. the caskets are accompanied by a color guard or some such, aren't they?
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AlbertCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-09 11:15 AM
Response to Reply #7
57. Some want it, others do not.
Edited on Wed Feb-18-09 11:17 AM by AlbertCat
Wow! That was a BRILLIANT insight!

Pul-eeze! The few (I'm sure) families that don't want it shouldn't have let their family members join up then. I think those that DIED in the service of their country would want it.

What a bunch of mamby-pamby hand wringing. Jesus! Don't you have something else to worry about? Like a leaky faucet or whether we're being nice enough to Repugs? After all, it's Repugs who put the bogus meme out there the ban was all in "respect of military families". No one ever thought such nonsense before the Repugs put that false excuse out there.

One thing's for sure, NOT showing the true cost of these invasions has helped perpetuate them. Got it, Einstein?
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alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-17-09 04:29 PM
Response to Reply #1
16. I don't think so
While the families have a stake, the minute one puts on the uniform, one is serving THE COUNTRY. As such, the deaths are public events with public consequences. They are no longer merely a matter of PRIVATE family grieving. You can't on the one hand constantly state that your actions are public, then on the other take back those actions for private purposes. It is either one or the other. If somebody died for their country (i.e., in a public capacity), then the death is common property of the public. You can't have it both ways.
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acmavm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-09 10:21 AM
Response to Reply #16
48. Ex-freaking-actly!
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-17-09 04:33 PM
Response to Reply #1
18. what a ridiculous statement to make.
Sometimes it's better not to say anything, if you have to dig that far to pull out this kind of dumbness. :eyes:
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Boomerang Diddle Donating Member (566 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-17-09 06:29 PM
Response to Reply #1
33. Who ever heard of anything so silly?
Who gets to vote? Just the families? Does that also include siblings or just parents? Do aunts, uncles, cousins, etc. also get a vote? What about boyfriends/girlfriends of the fallen? Do they get a say? What about close friends? Some people are closer to their friends than their immediate family.

What about those who are killed after this proposed vote takes place? They don't get a vote?
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IGotAName Donating Member (125 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-17-09 06:33 PM
Response to Reply #1
35. I disagree. The interests involved here are larger than just those of
the families.

What about the interests of those soldiers who have not yet been killed?
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-09 12:27 AM
Response to Reply #35
41. BINGO
the results of war should be seen by WE THE PEOPLE
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Honeycombe8 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-17-09 11:39 PM
Response to Reply #1
39. That's impossible. The voting group would change every 6 mos.
He can try to get a feel from the VA or other vet groups, but to take an actual vote is implausible.
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garybeck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-09 02:58 AM
Response to Reply #1
45. no, the fact is it's been allowed before and Bush just stopped it in the name of secrecy
so the veil needs to be lifted.

it's done in a respectful way. they basically just allow the media to photograph. it's not going to be a frenzy.
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Beacool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-09 10:27 AM
Response to Reply #1
50. I just had the same thought.
Some families may not want the caskets of their loved ones to be photographed and their wishes should be respected.

:(
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DevonRex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-09 11:25 AM
Response to Reply #50
60. That doesn't make sense. One flag-draped casket looks exactly like another.
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-09 10:28 AM
Response to Reply #1
51. I see your point, but I think the interest of the country is for people to be aware...
Edited on Wed Feb-18-09 10:29 AM by BlooInBloo
of the cost of war - especially needless ones.

This is one small part of achieving that.


EDIT: There's also the whole "prior restraint" thing.
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Every Man A King Donating Member (534 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-09 10:29 AM
Response to Reply #1
52. The Clinton policy was wrong get over it n/t
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DevonRex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-09 11:23 AM
Response to Reply #1
58. Let's sneak them in like they didn't exist. Yep. No dead soldiers here folks.
Move along. Nothing to see.

I absolutely CANNOT believe you like Bush's policy. WTF? This was probably your worst post since last June.

I'm a veteran and I'm deeply offended by ANYONE who wants to hide our dead soldiers as if they're garbage not fit to be seen and given respect by the nation.
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lsewpershad Donating Member (964 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-09 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #1
59. Captain
Did you feel the same way when the shrub gave his order? Did you offer the same advice?
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DevonRex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-09 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #59
67. I was wondering the same thing.
Or is it just that for some people whatever Obama does is wrong? :shrug:
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-09 05:04 PM
Response to Reply #1
73. The parents and family who object to access should be invited
to do so. I think it likely that most will not object.
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BattyDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-17-09 04:17 PM
Response to Original message
2. FINALLY!
They made the ultimate sacrifice. The LEAST we can do is honor them when they come home by making sure the entire country sees what the cost of war really is.

:applause: :patriot:
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jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-17-09 04:20 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. Exactly!
I'm glad he's not trying to hide the real cost of these wars.
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vaberella Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-17-09 04:39 PM
Response to Reply #2
23. I completely agree. n/t
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FLyellowdog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-17-09 04:39 PM
Response to Reply #2
24. You are 100% right!
I see anything less than that as an attempt to hide the REAL cost of these wars.
:patriot:
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-17-09 04:19 PM
Response to Original message
5. Excellent news! Let America take a good look at the price of war.
K&R :hi:
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jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-17-09 04:21 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. Yup...
that's how it should've been for the last several years!

Thanks, AK! :hi:
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TheCowsCameHome Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-17-09 04:21 PM
Response to Original message
8. No more sanitized images of war like Bush and Cheney fed us.
It's about time.
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flpoljunkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-17-09 04:24 PM
Response to Original message
11. Thanks, Jen. I missed it.
This is as it should be. Our President comes through again!
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jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-17-09 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #11
32. No problem!
Yes, it should've been this way for YEARS! :hi:
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alsame Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-17-09 04:24 PM
Response to Original message
12. Good. If the families want this, then their wishes should be
honored. :patriot:

I would be really impressed if President Obama and/or VP Biden met the caskets at Dover...that's the ultimate sign of respect.
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Zen Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-17-09 04:25 PM
Response to Original message
13. It's not just looking at the caskets. It's seeing the ceremonies at Dover.
This was always the case before Bush to my knowledge. Definitely during Vietnam.
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southernyankeebelle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-17-09 04:29 PM
Response to Original message
15. Finally
Now all those people that have had their heads in the sand will finally be able to see what has been going on during Bush's war.
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PresidentObama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-17-09 04:34 PM
Response to Original message
20. Finally, Americans will see the horrible cost of war. Thank you, President Obama
This is leadership!!
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Parker CA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-17-09 04:35 PM
Response to Original message
21. Did they say when the final word on this will be issued, Jen? Jim's quote, although encouraging
definitely doesn't sound certain regarding Obama's final decision.
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jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-17-09 06:32 PM
Response to Reply #21
34. No. Sorry-there was not much more on it than what I wrote.
But it IS an encouraging sign.
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earth mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-17-09 04:36 PM
Response to Original message
22. Wow-Obama must have read Cindy Sheehans letter & actually listened to her.
Knock me over with a feather. :wow:
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-17-09 04:41 PM
Response to Original message
25. Wow, just like America. Well that's one practice the rightwing took
from Nazi Germany and put in place here that Obama has rejected. Good show.
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jillan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-17-09 04:43 PM
Response to Original message
26. Americans need to see the cost of war.



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Autumn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-17-09 04:52 PM
Response to Original message
27. Thank you President Obama
they should be seen and honored.:patriot:
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sandyj999 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-17-09 05:14 PM
Response to Original message
29. It's About Time
Did they think if we didn't see it we wouldn't know it? I am insulted that they think we are that stupid. These heroes should never be brought home under the cover of darkness.
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AlbertCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-09 11:26 AM
Response to Reply #29
61. Did they think if we didn't see it we wouldn't know it?
Edited on Wed Feb-18-09 11:27 AM by AlbertCat
YES. That's exactly what the Bushites thought. Outta sight...outta mind. Just like Cheney (in his undisclosed location...nuttin' to see here....nuttin' happening here).
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cottonseed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-17-09 05:17 PM
Response to Original message
30. Nice, he's really moving down the list of things he'd say he'd do.
Couple weeks in and he's catching a lot of flack, but it sure seems he's checking off on those positions of his.
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K Gardner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-17-09 05:22 PM
Response to Original message
31. An utter disgrace that we've been prevented from this for 8 years. n/t
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liberalsince1968 Donating Member (245 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-17-09 07:48 PM
Response to Original message
36. GOOD.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-17-09 11:06 PM
Response to Original message
37. Great news --- secrecy protects corrupt/criminal officials --- !!!
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Hekate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-17-09 11:35 PM
Response to Original message
38. Photos of coffins returning to the US helped turn the public against the Vietnam War...
That is exactly why the Pentagon wanted the practice banned, and exactly why Rumsfeld wanted it secret.

This is excellent news, and the idea of making families of the fallen "vote" on having photos of anonymous flag-draped coffins it is a straw man -- as well as demeaning and cruel.

Kudos to Obama. President Obama.

Hekate
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Honeycombe8 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-17-09 11:43 PM
Response to Reply #38
40. That had an impact. But I think it was mainly the TV shots of the actual war in Vietnam.
It wasn't seeing the coffins. It was more seeing the actions beforehand that got the guys killed, and the bodies laying on the ground, blown apart and such.

It was the first war where the actual battles were televised.

But I think the coffins DO remind everyone of the cost, and that's what the W.H. was obviously worried about. But I think, like many here on DU, that it's more of an honor to the fallen heroes, to view the coffins, think a minute about the lives they gave up and the cost to their families, and to sympathize.

It's about time.
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iamthebandfanman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-09 01:50 AM
Response to Reply #38
43. but the public already turned on the war?
but i still think its a good idea. only because i think it shows respect for the fallen.
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Hekate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-09 02:11 AM
Response to Reply #43
44. The operative word is "helped". "Helped", not "caused". nt
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bdamomma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-09 10:29 AM
Response to Reply #38
53. yea, it got people in the streets to end these wars
how about when we start seeing the numbers of the dead soldiers returning from Afghanistan, will it fuel us to stop this killing.
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Diane R Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-09 01:45 AM
Response to Original message
42. As it should be. They should be honored and acknowleged.
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EraOfResponsibility Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-09 03:02 AM
Response to Original message
46. Wow
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bdamomma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-09 10:23 AM
Response to Original message
49. and when we see those troops coming back from Afghanistan
since they escalated the numbers of troops there maybe outrage. Afghanistan why are we there?

http://www.ringnebula.com/Oil/Pipeline.htm

Up against Islamic religious fundis and Pakistan with nuclear weapons, it just never stops.
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Beacool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-09 10:34 AM
Response to Reply #49
54. I opened a thread yesterday on the added troops being sent to Afghanistan.
It brought exactly two responses. People appear to be more interested in when will Obama redecorate the Oval Office and which puppy should the family choose.

Afghanistan, here we go again........

:eyes:
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bdamomma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-09 10:51 AM
Response to Reply #54
55. very serious situation out in Afghanistan, we all must be aware of it all.
Edited on Wed Feb-18-09 10:54 AM by bdamomma
not the first time I heard about this either. http://www.ringnebula.com/Oil/Pipeline.htm

not again.

sorry about getting away from the topic of this thread.
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Beacool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-09 11:12 AM
Response to Reply #55
56. The situation IS serious in Afghanistan
This is the thread I was referring to:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=8205535&mesg_id=8205535

I just hope it doesn't become a quagmire like it was for the Russians.

:-(
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jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-09 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #49
66. That says even MORE about Obama then, doesn't it?
He's not trying to hide the cost of war because he believes what he's doing is right. We're going after those who attacked us.
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bdamomma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-09 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #66
69. it is really unfortunate that from the beginning we should of focused on Afghanistan
Edited on Wed Feb-18-09 01:28 PM by bdamomma
instead of illegal invasion of Iraq. But should of's or could of's can't help us now.
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jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-09 03:11 PM
Response to Reply #69
71. I agree...
and Obama's just keeping a promise that he ran on-to go after those who attacked us. Showing the coffins is a sign of bravery IMO.
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DevonRex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-09 11:26 AM
Response to Original message
62. Excellent news. This is an honor that they deserve. And it's something the nation needs to see. nt
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barbtries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-09 12:17 PM
Response to Original message
63. and hopefully
people will get more engaged and consequently more enraged, and we'll end these goddamn wars.
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Laura PourMeADrink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-09 12:25 PM
Response to Original message
65. Aha. Someone really read my posts from last year on this.
haha.

I am so very glad - end the war and I will be REALLY happy
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geiger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-09 01:11 PM
Response to Original message
68. seen or photographes?
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happygoluckytoyou Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-09 02:38 PM
Response to Original message
70. ABOUT TIME.... you broke it... the least you can do is LOOK AT IT!!!!!
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peace13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-09 04:14 PM
Response to Original message
72. I think some people here would defend Satan if they had the time!
Good god, if a family member objects to their loved ones casket being filmed, make it possible for them to be unloaded in private. Let's try to work together here. Americans want the chance to honor those who have given all for this life we have. If family members feel differently make a path for them to follow so that they can have their wishes granted. People need to see how many are dying in these wars.
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