Beyond the obnoxious racist cartoon: Why did they have to kill the poor chimpanzee in the 1st place?

I mean don't they have tranquilizer guns? Why couldn't they taze the poor chimp before shooting it full of holes?

:(

:shrug:

The animal had just chewed a woman's face off.

and why on earth would the police wait when there is a clear and present danger?

this is like the tiger at the SF Zoo.

the police were there well before animal control and the police came upon a scene where the tiger was actively attacking a visitor to the zoo (at this point, they did not know the backstory).

the officers shot the animal as it lunged at their vehicle and the window was open where it was approaching.

they had no better choice.

The animal went fucking crazy.

(can't pay the bill this month...)

Also missed the plane crash last week.

Do you want the apes to rise up and burn the cities down?!

all to try to get it to stop attacking the person.

So let me understand this scenario...

1) Guy owns a chimpanzee in New York City... aren't they considered exotic animals and you really aren't supposed to have them without a special license/training? Isn't this just asking for a problem.

2) Guy takes chimp out for a stroll carrying a knife and a shovel along just in case the monkey loses it.

3) Monkey freaks out and attacks passerby.

4) Guy stabs and bashes his monkey with shovel and knife.

5) Cops come along and turn monkey into Swiss cheese.

6) NY Post cartoonist makes situation 100x worse with cartoon in really bad taste that insults cops, monkeys, Congress, and President Obama all in one fell swoop.

Does that just about sum up the situation?

:eyes:

As I understand it;
Woman had it at home, treating it like a human being. Eating at the table and everything.
Chimp decides to chew of hands and face of womans friend.
From there on your are right. Substituting Guy for Woman, that is.

:eyes:

It was in Connecticut.

before shooting off baseless assumptions. This is silly.

who lives in Detroit who carries around his own stories just in case he didn't get a change to read the news. It's true. Just give him a headline and he's off to the races.

Oddly enough, he gets a tad grumpy when his story doesn't match the truth. But that's the functionally illiterate for ya.

Charla Nash, lost one or both eyes, her nose, and part of her jaw. (from TV report)

(CNN) -- Seven hours of surgery and four teams of surgeons were needed to stabilize a Connecticut woman attacked by a pet chimpanzee, doctors at Stamford Hospital said Wednesday.
http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/02/18/chimp.attack/?iref=mpstoryview

Chimps are 5 times stonger than humans, and can kill a person in no time.

Bonzo's attention in a hurry. I betcha just bringing the dog in the room would have done the trick.

I betcha that a Tazer would have adjusted that monkey's attitude in a hurry also.

Doug D.

I don't know whether a taser would work on a chimp. I doubt that anyone knows. Certainly the officers didn't.

how many times do people have to tell you about the shovel, the knife, etc. for you to understand why police shot the animal?

this isn't Tarzan's little chimp.
this is a chimp over 200 lbs.
A 200lb chimp has much more power than a 200lb man.
a crack on the head??? A dog?
Very doubtful.

Who said anything about a damned dog?

What are you looking for, a cage match?

I don't care what kind of dog. A chimp that size could handle any dog.

The skull of a chimp, for instance, is much thicker than a human.
And the shape is different. Same with most of the other bones.
You aren't going to simply "crack" a skull.

Cops are trained to take down grown men at two hundred pounds with tazors, night sticks and worst case guns.

This animal was 200 pounds and enraged and after attacking the woman (in the wild chimpanzees are known to attack invading chimpanzees kill them and eat them) but anyway after brutalizing the woman the chimp went after the officers and threatened their lives. Not much of a choice but to pull their weapons and shoot.

The womans wounds were so grave that hospital staff had to ask for counseling.

These animals are still by their nature wild and can be dangerous. They should not be kept in homes in neighborhoods.

That's a losing tactic, especially for the dog.

This story is like The Murders in the Rue Morgue.

He'd already literally ripped the face off of one person, and when the cops came, they were trying to clear the area so medics could come and help the woman with her face missing, when the chimp returned. The cops retreated to their cop cars, and the chimp went right up to one of the cop cars, opened the door, and looked like he was about to attack again.

Bear in mind that this cute little chimp is roughly five times as strong as any human being - if you get in a fight with a chimp, he will overpower you and rip your face off. What did you think the cop was going to do in that situation? He drew his gun and shot him, and I don't blame him a bit.

with what - the CAR KEYS?

Yes he had opposable thumbs but did he ALSO have the keys to the patrol car? or were cops just not smart enough to lock the damned door? or what?

As I said earlier there were probably some other alternatives if he literally wasn't attacking someone at that moment:

1) Rin Tin Tin... My money's on the dog over the chimp even if he is 5x as strong as a human.

2) Tazer... My money's on 50,000 Volts not the monkey.

3) Pepper Spray... I really don't think the monkey would be up for that.

4) Tranquilizer - if the monkey wasn't immediately attacking someone.

Yeah monkeys are dangerous but come on folks, down here in Florida they have 12-16 foot gators come up into people's yards on a fairly regular basis and they don't usually deal with that by shooting them to death.

If he had, and if the chimp had broken the window to get at him, you would be criticizing the cop for not locking himself in the trunk. You're not being realistic. The cop blew the bezerk chimp away. Highly justified, and a public service too since this ensured no other humans were attacked.

I'm not intent on defending the chimp (I guess you missed where I would set Rin Tin Tin on the monkey... not exactly a monkey friendly solution is it?)

I love animals. But come on. This was a dangerous situation. A wild animal was on a rampage, killing people. I mean... ?

It all depends.. monkey is attacking someone - shoot the monkey if you can do it wihtout hitting the person.

It's not the case that the monkey was attacking someone at the time it was shot though.

Doug D.

it was a chimpanzee. Different animal. Different sizes. Different strengths.

Even the chimp's owner was screaming for the cops to shoot him. That was after stabbing him with a butcher knife and beating him with a shovel failed to get him to stop ripping her friend's face off.

So the chimp had just ripped one person apart, cornered the cop in his car and was about to attack him. Are you suggesting he was supposed to wait until after it grabbed him before shooting? News for you -- that would be too late.

Likewise, closing the door and hoping the chimp wasn't strong enough to break a window would be foolhardy.

The cop shot him at close range. At close range. In other words, he didn't have time to consider any other alternatives -- assuming there were any. It was self-defense, plain and simple. Even if it had been a crazed man, instead of crazed chimp, the cop would be justified in the shooting.

Yes I know the difference between a gibbon and a chimp but in common parlance = monkey either way. I really doubt that the owner was really trying very hard or perhaps she had no physical strength but as a 230 lb adult male of the homo sapien branch of the the primate family I'm pretty sure I could kill my monkey cousin pretty dead with a shovel and or a large knife.

She probably wasn't using the shovel right and was smacking the monkey on the flat side instead of cracking him up side the head on the shovel's edge. It would have cracked his little monkey skull like a walnut.

I've got to fault the cop for not being smarter than the monkey apparently and failing to lock his patrol car door. I really don't see a monkey breaking tempered automobile glass without a club. Have you ever tried to break out a car window even with a brick or a baseball bat? It's not easy.

LOL. "...wasn't using the shovel right..."

if you swing it right..

:eyes:

or zombie movies, or you, for some strange reason, keep your shovel sharpened!?!

Unlike the movies, heads don't come flying off with a whack from the shovel...
unless we are using one of your sharpened shovels, I suppose.

A tough animal is the chimpanzee.

Hell, they should have shot it, burned it, chopped it up and launched it into space.

Stamford, CT police don't carry around tranquilizer guns. They may or may not carry tasers, but who knows if it would have been strong enough...a taser may have just pissed the chimp off even more.

If the chimp had been a man, they probably still would have shot him to death given the situation. I'm an animal lover, and I know I would have.

The cops were trying to clear the area for the emts to treat the woman, and every second mattered as far as saving her life was concerned.

And I'll bet if that 12 foot alligator ripped off somebody's leg and was going for the other one, your Florida cops would shoot to kill.

Dogs are apex predators - they are much more dangerous than monkeys. A trained police dog could kill you without really even trying hard.

I really doubt that chimps are "immune" to tasers or for that matter I really doubt any mammal would be immune to them.

If the chimp was preventing their access to a dying woman then ok Bonzo has to die.

Doug D.

trained police dogs don't go for the throat.

You should stop imagining this chimp as a little Bonzo. This is a large 200 lb ape.

no contest.. dog wins..

They didn't have time to strategize. The monkey was eating somebody's face. If somebody was eating YOUR face, would you want the authorities to take their time with the response?

I REALLY doubt that. Almost every town in America of any size has K-9 units and SWAT to handle real problems. If there were no K-9 units at the scene that is because the cops screwed up and didn't sned them.

Doug D.

The one with the 150 lb rott or dobie.

Actually, a chimp still wins against a police trained rottweiler or doberman.

Maybe they should have called the police ursa unit. A bear might have a chance.

Most took Chimp to win hands down. Pitbull only has one move. Chimp has several.

Your over-empathizing with the attacker, and your general ignorance, leads me to wonder.

You know, they taught Travis to use the internet. It's not beyond the realm of imagination that somebody taught you too.

So, what are you, a bonobo?

I was using the internet before it was called that friend. The dumbed down computers for YOU, not me and that's why YOU can use the internet now.

I started with a PDP8-E and a teletype back in the late 70's...

:rofl:

You know, this IS a discussion board, it's true. And heated discussion is expected.

But when you approach an argument backwards because you're talking out your butt, then people are gonna flame you.

Hence...

READ. THE. DAMN. STORY.

...it would be monkey chow.

RinTinTin would be torn apart. ...imagine...dog bites ape...ape bites dog...dog dead.
Don't know a tazer would work well...lots of fur, plus I've seen humans rip tazer tags out.
Pepper spray most likely would have engraged.
No tranquiler handy.

Chimps aren't monkeys by a long shot. They are apes. LARGE apes.
Nor are gators apes. Gators are reptiles and can be handled as reptiles. Apes are primates and you just don't always "scare" off an enraged ape.

This is an animal that used to be in movies. The lady adopted the animal and was like a son to her. The animal had escaped from her house (not the first time and police had been called in the past) and for some stupid reason she called her friend (who was known to the animal) to come and help her herd the chimp back inside. It went horribly wrong. They aren't sure why the chimp attacked the friend but there were two things of note, 1) the friend was wearing her hair different and the chimp may not have recognized her and 2) the owner had just a few minutes previously given the chimp Xanax. That was a wtf moment for me unless a vet had specifically prescribed them for the animal.

This animal had literally ripped a womans face off. The owner had tried to beat the animal off her friend with a shovel and had stabbed it in the back with a knife. The chimp got in a police car with an officer in it. So they shot it. The owner had been screaming at 911 from the beginning of the call to bring a gun and shoot it.

This wasn't some hopped up cops out on the hunt for a new rug for their fireplace. This was a very sad and dangerous situation that called for putting the animal down. What do you think they would have done to the animal after almost killing this woman (who may still die)? I'm thinking he would have been put down as a result anyway.

Yes the animal was dangerous but I disagree that it was an immediate threat at the time it was shot and I disagree that the only option available was shooting it at the time it was shot. I'm not advocating that no force be used but there were intermediate options between nothing and shooting it.

Doug D.

Put him back in a cage?

I seriously doubt it.

Because I've YET to see one.

I have a feeling he's one of those that didn't see any racism during the primaries either.

LOL

Given what had happened, should the police have just scared it off with their sirens, because they had no tranq guns? And if it absconded while waiting for AC to appear and hurt someone else? What then? After what it did, I doubt it was going to be rehomed at a zoo had they only tranquilized it first.

This happened in Connecticut. On a local news station the other day, they reported that state law there allows for the ownership of exotic pets, which is not the case in NYS or NYC or NJ. (I didn't check that.)

Chimpanzees get larger than the cute young ones you see sitting on people's laps dressed in clothes. There's a photo of him here:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/4694820/Chimp-attack-Owner-denies-giving-Travis-Xanax.html

This one weighed close to 200 pounds.

And they're a hell of a lot stronger than humans - about five times stronger by some measures. An adult chimp can easily overpower and kill you.

Same with the other great apes. Googling around, I kept seeing this story about a big log falling into a zoo habitat for an orangutan. Five zoo staffers surrounded the log and tried to lift it together, and couldn't budge it. Later, the orangutan got annoyed with that log being in its habitat and casually tossed it aside with one arm.

:wow:

How strong by the way do you think a fully grown alligator is? A chimp would be snack food to a 16 foot gator.

There were alternatives but this was just handled badly.

after all, there was woman, minus her face, needing medical treatment RIGHT FUCKING NOW, and they didn't want to take too long subduing the chimp.

As for the chimp's owner, I agree - she was incredibly stupid. Chimpanzees are very dangerous animals, and she didn't really appreciate the risks she was taking.

reptiles are much more predictable and are easier to deal with.
Humans are much smarter than a chimp, hence they invented the gun that was used, properly, to kill the out of control chimp.

that the chimp can't figure out.

Like a gun? Back to square one.

The chimp can use bludgeoning weapons, I'm sure. Heck, this guy was eating at the table and working the TV remote.

we developed the gun that kill them. Imagaine bring teeth to a gun fight.

.

this whole thing wouldn't have happend!

:sarcasm:

According to TV and the Radio.

:hide:

was obviously a racist attack on the president.

the cartoon itself.

I was being ironical....

door, so a policeman shot it.
Does it really take less time to read here than to read a newspaper or to Google?

And a chimpanzee is NOT A MONKEY! (To those using the terms as interchangeable.)

How exactly was it going to pry open a locked patrol car? I don't care if it IS 5x as strong as a human, it's nowhere near enough strong to rip a car door off its hinges.

congrats, you have managed to top yourself...
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

How is it "stupid" to ASK a question?

:eyes:

I thought the circular argument and unwilllingness to admit defeat seemed familiar. I remember the imaginary cigarettes.

It already tried to EAT a person. It was breaking into the car to get at the cop.

Shoot it - I'd be pissed that all I had was a handgun.

Notice that after being shot he still went into the house. The cop could not drop the thing.

You really have to learn about chimpanzees. They are horribly vicious. All the worst parts of human nature come from chimps.

You are telling me with a 9mm or 40 caliber semi-auto pistol he couldn't kill it dead with one clip?

:eyes:

:crazy:

SOOOOO?

:rofl:

its not an intelligent discussion board either.

There's nothing to "get over" ... but the looks of this thread I think the majority agree with me.

I feel badly for the chimp, badly for the owner and am beyond words about how horrible I feel for the victim of the attack.

while the enraged animal went around the neighborhood maiming people.

Human > Chimp.

From what it sounds like there wasn't much time to dilly dally for tranquilizers.

The savage attack has left Herold and the country in shock, but wildlife specialists are far from surprised. Wildlife biologist and "Animal Planet" host, Jeff Corwin discussed the situation with Matt Lauer on the "Today Show" Tuesday. According to Corwin, though we see such similarities between ourselves and chimpanzees that we want to dismiss that animal side of them, chimpanzees do live by their own rules.

Corwin said, "These creatures are wild, and the violence that was exhibited by this chimpanzee is not unknown to wild chimpanzee society. Chimpanzees are highly evolved primates, but the truth is, these animals live in very complex societies in Africa. It's not uncommon ... that a chimpanzee will react to another over territoriality — even kill another chimpanzee."

Corwin is hardly exaggerating. Soon after this news broke, I found a video clip from the BBC natural history show "Planet Earth." I watched as a group of chimpanzees not only brutally attacked opposing chimpanzees, but proceeded to cannibalize the unlucky stragglers. Having watched it, it
Chimp Attack Latest in Long Line of Exotic Pet Violence
makes the situation even more devastating and Herold's blind eye to her "son" infuriating.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29233931/


Violent chimpanzee attack - Planet Earth - BBC wildlife

(embedding disabled by request)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7XuXi3mqYM

had no business having this animal.

I'm just saying there should have been alternatives short of shooting it and I think the claims of monkey strength here fail to consider human brains. It's not all about physical strength - it's about supposedly being smarter than the monkey. So far I'm not too impressed by the owner, the friend of the owner or the cops.

Doug D.
Orlando, FL

A chimp attack from a few years ago.

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2005/03/06/ferocity_of_chimpanzee_attack_stuns_medics_leaves_questions/

As for your claim that its not about physical strength, its about being smarter than the monkey -- when a two hundred pound animal with as much as ten times the upper body strength of a human goes berserk, you don't sit around trying to figure out how to reason with it or outsmart it. You stop its rampage as fast and as certainly as you can.

or a night stick or Rin Tin Tin...

:eyes:

but a night stick would do wonders.

Did you ever take a blow to the head? This thread suggests maybe you have

Meanwhile, why would the police dig up a long dead canine actor to use against Travis? Wouldn't that take a while.

How often do you think the police get a wayward chimp call? I'm thinking that they probably didn't have a procedure for that one beyond stopping the bugger with any means at their disposal, esp. after the chimp opened the door to the squad car to go after one of the cops.

where we bought 14 50 caliber "elephant guns" just in case.... at a cost of about $12,500.

I guess you never know when the elephants are gonna break out of the zoo or Bonzo will go bezerko...

I still have to believe that if the chimp wasn't immediately threatening someone's life that there was an alternative short of shooting it. People are acting like this was King Kong or something. Powerful, dangerous - yes but I doubt any more so than the typical pit bull or alligator on the loose calls that cops in Florida answer every day.

You're totally wrong.

Do you?

Would he want to wait around while the cops got a k-9 unit to the scene if his face was being chewed off?

tear each other to pieces for the amusement of everyone.

Yes, that's much better than just finishing it.

She has no face, dude. No nose. She barely has a chin.

Define immediately.

I take it back. You're not a monkey. You're a troll.

And you'd be willing to get Rin Tin Tin hurt? In fact, torture both of the animals, dog vs. chimp? Are you looking for some kind of show?


Shooting the chimp was absolutely, undoubtedly correct.

And the monkey isn't any more likely to grab the night stick away than a person would be especially if there are a lot of cops and only one monkey - you do the math. And tazers work at enough of a distance that you don't have to put the cop at risk.

You've obviously never seen a military (or police) working dog in action. I have.

Doug D.

on a rampage. He wasn't going to "run up a tree" from anything- he couldn't outrun the dog anyway. Haven't YOU seen a dog in action? They run.

And the chimp is plenty likely to grab the nightstick from the cop, being much stronger than the cop and able to use simple tools. He could grab it and beat the cop with it, or just bite the cop's face off like it did to the woman who was lying, dying, on the ground at the time. Bottom line is the nightstick wasn't going to do anything to stop the chimp. A shovel sure didn't.

I don't even know if the cops had tazers, but they were absolutely justified in using deadly force. That chimp was out to kill that cop. Case closed.


Sounds like you're just arguing this for attention. Your points are, frankly, kind of ridiculous.

and manufacture a gun to shoot it with.

So I really don't see why you're complaining- still.

but that would be even more "overkill" than simply shooting it...

Humans have an ability to practice discretion and not simply "nuke" the chimp.

A tazer would have worked. Pepper spray would have probably been very effective too. A dog would have worked also. Shooting the chimp simply means the cops didn't have a plan and resorted to the most lethal tool at their disposal right out of the box.

Perhaps seeing someone without their face freaked them out a tad and they weren't thinking tactically.

...and he was clucking hard.

:argh:

They require special training to use, and I believe you have to be licensed to practice veterinary medicine to possess the ammunition or to use it.

They did the right thing and defended themselves from a wild animal who had just killed a woman.

I can't believe the animal rights gang is coming out on this one too.

and negative attention is better than none!

This thread is more entertaining than freeperland

To the Nth degree. He passed up sad and pathetic and ran straight on through to fucking annoying and obvious.

the woman was horribly mauled and mutilated by a wild creature who should never have been in that situation.

But, this gives a chance for a little light hearted posturing about the 9mm round in the clip.

Oh my gawsh, the only thing to cap this is to remind us of the loss of both of the victim's eyes, her nose and her lower jaw, the dead ape and of course a tie in to an ugly racist cartoon, all for a yuk or two.

allowed to have a wild animal as as "pet" in the first place. When your pet can rip the car doors off your car its time to rethink what your next pet should be. The Attorney General here is pressing for stricter laws regarding this. I think its bad for the animals as well. They belong in the wild or in a controlled sanctuary-like environment, not in someone's home.

Kill and eat vegans, save a tomato