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Frank Booth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-10-09 12:01 AM
Original message
Tim Geithner's Black Hole
Edited on Tue Mar-10-09 12:05 AM by Frank Booth
I have no idea what the writer's political leanings are, so please don't pile on if he's not allowed here (like, apparently, Maureen Dowd) but there's some interesting stuff in this piece:

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Here's the problem: Today's true market value of the U.S. banks' toxic assets (that ugly stuff that needs to be removed from bank balance sheets before the economy can recover) amounts to between 5 and 30 cents on the dollar. To remain solvent, however, the banks say they need a valuation of 50 to 60 cents on the dollar. Translation: as much as another $2 trillion taxpayer bailout.

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The logical alternative -- talk show hosts' solution du jour -- is to temporarily restructure or nationalize the banks and leave taxpayers alone. Remove the toxic assets, replace management and cut the too-big-to-fail financial dinosaurs into smaller, nimbler entities. Then reprivatize these smaller banks and let the recovery begin.

Oh, if it were that simple. I suspect Obama's advisers would like nothing more than to dismantle an irresponsible firm such as Citigroup. They are afraid to do so, for one reason: All the big banks are connected to a potentially lethal web of paper insurance instruments called credit default swaps. These paper derivatives have become our financial system's new master.

The theory holds that dismantling a big bank could unravel this paper market, with catastrophic global financial consequences. Or not. Nobody knows, because the market for these unregulated financial derivatives, amounting potentially to over $40 trillion (by comparison, global gross domestic product is now not much more than $60 trillion), is the financial equivalent of uncharted waters.


I'm amazed that the system was so lax that it allowed a few companies to leverage 67% of the world's gross domestic product -- it seems like someone should have realized that wasn't a great idea.

Oops, forgot the link: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/03/09/AR2009030902232.html
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EVDebs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-10-09 12:13 AM
Response to Original message
1. $1.14 Quadrillion USD
That's the value of the derivatives banks have foisted upon the world's economy and are demanding payment on, when everyone knows that money is SPECULATIVE unregulated derivative money !

See Stephen Pizzo's Follow The Numbers ... the $1.14 Quadrillion number
http://newsforreal.com/newsdesk/?p=406

Then read James Lieber's Village Voice article What Cooked The World's Economy ?...the $596 trillion number
http://www.villagevoice.com/2009-01-28/news/what-cooked-the-world-s-economy/

and

Derivatives the new 'ticking bomb'--Buffett and Gross warn: $516 trillion bubble is a disaster waiting to happen
http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/derivatives-new-ticking-time-bomb/story.aspx?guid={B9E54A5D-4796-4D0D-AC9E-D9124B59D436}&print=true&dist=printTop

In short, the speculative derivative amounts are what the world's bankers are holding us hostage with ! That money should be written off, and if it isn't it becomes a 'crowding out' of the potential credit that could go into a recovery but instead are being funnelled of into the pockets of the bankers.

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Frank Booth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-10-09 12:19 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Yeah, I saw your post after I posted this.
Edited on Tue Mar-10-09 12:20 AM by Frank Booth
Interesting. This article (http://newsforreal.com/newsdesk/?p=406) puts the total for credit default swaps at 58+ trillion, so it looks like 40 trillion may be a bit optimistic (not that it matters, since it's still way more than enough to bankrupt this country).
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EVDebs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-10-09 12:23 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. Those are world statistics, with US banks having about 1/3rd
of the world's holdings of the derivatives...but still, taxpayers can't afford to pay off these derivatives AND consume to keep the recovery going. The derivatives MUST BE WRITTEN OFF !
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Frank Booth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-10-09 12:31 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. What's the downside to cancelling a credit default swap anyway?
If I understand them correctly, basically they're like an insurance policy. If the CDS is taken out on a set of bonds, a party pays the counterparty a fee in return for "insurance" that if the bonds default the counterparty will pay the full amount of the bonds.

If the government just declared CD swaps illegal instruments, the party would be out of its "premium" payment -- but then the government could just require that this be repaid by the counterparty. I'm sure there must be a lot of problems I'm missing, but it seems like a variant of this plan could be implemented.
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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-10-09 12:37 AM
Response to Reply #1
6. Thanks for those links
n/t
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busymom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-10-09 12:28 AM
Response to Original message
4. My head hurts...
this is so depressing.
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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-10-09 12:44 AM
Response to Original message
7. A bunch of wealthy people lose a bunch of money to allow the world to continue to function.
Edited on Tue Mar-10-09 12:44 AM by w4rma
Just do it. The world is more important than them or their money.
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