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Krauthammer's ludicrous defense of torture

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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-01-09 05:55 PM
Original message
Krauthammer's ludicrous defense of torture

KRAUTHAMMER'S WEAK TORTURE DEFENSE....

The first five words of Charles Krauthammer's latest column were terrific: "Torture is an impermissible evil." I haven't agreed with a Krauthammer sentence in years, so this was a delightful surprise. Torture is an impermissible evil, we're not evil, we're not permitted to do the impermissible, so we end up with the right policy. Finally, a consensus.

Regrettably, Krauthammer didn't end the column after the first sentence.

Torture is an impermissible evil. Except under two circumstances. The first is the ticking time bomb. An innocent's life is at stake. The bad guy you have captured possesses information that could save this life. He refuses to divulge. In such a case, the choice is easy. Even John McCain, the most admirable and estimable torture opponent, says openly that in such circumstances, "You do what you have to do." And then take the responsibility.

Some people, however, believe you never torture. Ever.... (It is) imprudent to have a person who would abjure torture in all circumstances making national security decisions upon which depends the protection of 300 million countrymen.

The second exception to the no-torture rule is the extraction of information from a high-value enemy in possession of high-value information likely to save lives. This case lacks the black-and-white clarity of the ticking time bomb scenario. We know less about the length of the fuse or the nature of the next attack. But we do know the danger is great.... We know we must act but have no idea where or how -- and we can't know that until we have information. Catch-22.

Under those circumstances, you do what you have to do. And that includes waterboarding.

The column goes on to explain that torture was an effective method of acquiring intelligence; torture is routinely the most efficient way of gathering information; torture saved American lives; and it's all Speaker Nancy Pelosi's fault anyway.

So, when Krauthammer says torture is an "impermissible evil," he means it, except for the part about it being impermissible, and the part about it being evil.

The Washington Post's Dan Froomkin did a very nice job taking on Krauthammer's entire column, point by point, highlighting the series of errors of fact and judgment. But I just wanted to point out how wildly unpersuasive Krauthammer's two "exceptions" are.

<...>

And second, the idea that torture is acceptable when officials believe a detainee has "high-value information likely to save lives" is a recipe for creating building-sized loopholes to laws prohibiting torture. Every government or terrorist network can justify all torture with such a ridiculous standard. The Japanese tortured in World War II because they thought they'd captured "a high-value enemy in possession of high-value information likely to save lives." Did that make it right? Did it stop us from labeling their conduct "war crimes"?

(emphasis added)

Rice implicates Bush in torture


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Danger Mouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-01-09 05:58 PM
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1. This makes me so angry I can't even put into words how disgusted I am.
Other than this defense of torture is horse shit of the smelliest variety.
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-01-09 05:58 PM
Response to Original message
2. I anxiously await AG Holder's appointment of a Special Prosecutor.
Edited on Fri May-01-09 06:17 PM by AtomicKitten
I have heard enough of their rationalizations for the use of torture and their willingness to blur the lines of morality and the rule of law.

:mad:
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-01-09 06:08 PM
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3. Again, the main point historically is, if you condone it under any circumstance
then you have to allow that it is ok for your own service personnel to be treated in a similar manner.


The reason that military's in developed country's are universally and virtually unanimously against torture is because they want to establish a legal protection against the use against their own personnel.




Krauthammer, apparently, wishes to sanction the torture of our own personnel when they are held captive.



BTW if there are exegent circumstances, you don't list them out in policy. Just like killing someone is normally a crime, there are exegent and mitigating circumstances. If somebody tortured during a 'ticking bomb' situation they would still have recourse to use that in their defense in a criminal trial, that would be for the jury to decide.

Of course those exegent circumstances don't change the basic fact that torture doesn't work, unless you already know the answer to the question you are asking, which obviously isn't the circumstances on a 'ticking bomb' scenario.
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The Velveteen Ocelot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-01-09 06:09 PM
Response to Original message
4. It's worse than weak.
Edited on Fri May-01-09 06:09 PM by The Velveteen Ocelot
It's twisted, immoral and intellectually dishonest. Krauthammer, who is a neocon dirtbag of the first order, ties himself in knots trying to justify the unjustifiable. He thinks just like Dick Cheney and all the authoritarian sociopaths and wannabe Jack Bauers who think an "impermissible evil" can be permissible if it furthers their goals -- that's a slippery slope if there ever was one. I wish I believed in Hell so I could imagine Krauthammer and his ilk ending up there.
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-01-09 06:14 PM
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5. It's torture listening to that asshole bloviate, that's for sure. NT
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justgamma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-01-09 07:08 PM
Response to Original message
6. The pukes are going to have to
admit that McCain was not tortured or, because of his father's rank, his torture was AOK with them. They can't have it both ways.
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