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billyoc (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-15-09 10:45 PM Original message |
ACLU director announces ad campaign condemning Bush-Obama Doctrine |
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Arkana (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-15-09 10:46 PM Response to Original message |
1. Commence the circular firing squad! |
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livefreest (378 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-16-09 03:35 AM Response to Reply #1 |
39. oh boy it would be so stupid to tie Obama to Bush |
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FrenchieCat (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-15-09 10:46 PM Response to Original message |
2. So what system does he want to use? |
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billyoc (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-15-09 10:49 PM Response to Reply #2 |
3. "Any information gained through torture will almost certainly be excluded from court" |
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FrenchieCat (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-15-09 10:51 PM Response to Reply #3 |
4. Apparently, Pres. Obama isn't interested in using technicalities as a way |
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billyoc (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-15-09 10:52 PM Response to Reply #4 |
7. What technicalities? Having evidence? Having witnesses? The right to face your accusers? |
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Better Believe It (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-15-09 10:55 PM Response to Reply #7 |
12. All of those and more |
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ThomCat (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-15-09 10:57 PM Response to Reply #7 |
17. Apparently equality before the law and the right to |
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billyoc (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-16-09 07:15 AM Response to Reply #17 |
40. They do seem time consuming, the military tribunals will be MUCH faster. |
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vaberella (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-16-09 09:58 AM Response to Reply #40 |
45. Uh...hence the problem with them that President Obama |
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billyoc (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-16-09 10:00 AM Response to Reply #45 |
46. Some evidence of a change in the status quo, rather than "O wants to change" is what I want. |
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Aragorn (784 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-16-09 10:57 AM Response to Reply #7 |
52. you mean |
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rug (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-15-09 10:52 PM Response to Reply #2 |
5. Clearly you don't want one that includes a presumption of innocence. |
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Aragorn (784 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-16-09 11:00 AM Response to Reply #5 |
53. if they die |
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high density (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-15-09 10:53 PM Response to Reply #2 |
8. I guess he wants them to flown to California or something so we can have a show trial on CNNHN |
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Clio the Leo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-15-09 11:13 PM Response to Reply #8 |
22. Judge Judy. NT |
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Mojorabbit (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-16-09 12:41 PM Response to Reply #8 |
60. I cannot believe your post |
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bluestateguy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-15-09 10:52 PM Response to Original message |
6. Good luck with that. They'll fail. |
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billyoc (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-15-09 10:55 PM Original message |
You're portraying the ACLU as Nazi sympathizers? |
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bluestateguy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-15-09 10:57 PM Response to Original message |
16. History lesson |
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Forkboy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-15-09 10:59 PM Response to Reply #16 |
19. And thank God they did it. |
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freddie mertz (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-16-09 04:57 PM Response to Reply #19 |
81. Defending the UNPOPULAR is the whole point. |
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vaberella (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-15-09 10:53 PM Response to Original message |
9. Oh is that what its called now?! Bush-Obama?! Give me a f'in break. n/t |
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IndianaGreen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-16-09 12:38 PM Response to Reply #9 |
58. Obama has bought Bush's policies on extra-judicial military kangaroo courts |
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SeattleGirl (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-16-09 04:55 PM Response to Reply #58 |
80. So I suppose the changes he made to the "kangaroo courts" don't |
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billyoc (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-16-09 06:45 PM Response to Reply #80 |
84. Of course they do. They permanently attach his name to them. |
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Thrill (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-15-09 10:54 PM Response to Original message |
10. That will be productive |
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vaberella (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-15-09 10:55 PM Response to Reply #10 |
13. Isn't O even completely revamping the tribunals?! |
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Thrill (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-15-09 10:58 PM Response to Reply #13 |
18. Like all the critics of Gitmo. They complain but offer no viable solutions. |
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vaberella (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-15-09 10:59 PM Response to Reply #18 |
21. Okay...good to know I'm not blind the article even says as much. These people confuse me. n/t |
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crikkett (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-16-09 10:44 AM Response to Reply #18 |
48. the problem is people like you who will accept no alternatives |
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Tesha (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun May-17-09 11:31 AM Response to Reply #18 |
93. Actually, they *DO* offer a solution: Trial in the existing American justice system. |
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bluestateguy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-15-09 10:59 PM Response to Reply #10 |
20. I know |
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Clio the Leo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-15-09 11:14 PM Response to Reply #20 |
23. And IMPROVING his standing with moderates..... |
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billyoc (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-15-09 11:25 PM Response to Reply #23 |
29. He could probably get even more white votes if he just shot them. |
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Clio the Leo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-16-09 12:09 AM Response to Reply #29 |
37. Yeah and he would TOTALLY do that! |
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NYC_SKP (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-15-09 10:54 PM Response to Original message |
11. Sometimes the ACLU is just Fucking Wrong.... |
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QC (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-15-09 11:19 PM Response to Reply #11 |
27. They are enemies of the people. n/t |
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NYC_SKP (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-15-09 11:27 PM Response to Reply #27 |
30. No, but when they resort to making associations like Sean Hannity might. |
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MarjorieG (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-15-09 10:55 PM Response to Original message |
14. Sorry, not the same in principle or practice. Most will be sent to other countires, released, so |
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vaberella (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-15-09 10:57 PM Response to Original message |
15. Isn't the military tribunals completely different under O, so how is this Bush-Obama?! |
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Clio the Leo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-15-09 11:16 PM Response to Reply #15 |
24. Would you please STOP asking questions that make SENSE!!!! :-) |
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vaberella (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-15-09 11:24 PM Response to Reply #24 |
28. Hah!! |
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Clio the Leo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-16-09 12:08 AM Response to Reply #28 |
36. oh, but Uncle Pat is a HOOT... |
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FrenchieCat (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-15-09 11:18 PM Response to Reply #15 |
25. I just finish writing the ACLU a letter...... |
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vaberella (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-15-09 11:29 PM Response to Reply #25 |
31. They don't make sense to me. |
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ibegurpard (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-15-09 11:33 PM Response to Reply #31 |
34. the efficiency argument |
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vaberella (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-16-09 12:10 AM Response to Reply #34 |
38. Exactly...That's what Obama argued in the video and wanted to change. |
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billyoc (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-16-09 08:58 AM Response to Reply #15 |
41. The Bush doctrine of denying due process is continuing under the Obama administration. |
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vaberella (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-16-09 09:24 AM Response to Reply #41 |
42. That's untrue. But thanks for the misleading information. n/t |
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billyoc (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-16-09 09:38 AM Response to Reply #42 |
43. The burden is on YOU to show a change in the status quo. |
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MadBadger (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-16-09 04:16 PM Response to Reply #43 |
68. What a cop out |
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billyoc (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-16-09 04:52 PM Response to Reply #68 |
78. Oooh, snap! You oughta send that one to Gibbs for his next presser. |
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snowdays (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-16-09 10:53 AM Response to Reply #15 |
50. WH is still afraid to try some of them in Fed. courts cause the standards are lacking-so |
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ibegurpard (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-15-09 11:18 PM Response to Original message |
26. He could've scrapped them |
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vaberella (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-15-09 11:31 PM Response to Reply #26 |
33. Of course not... n/t |
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DU GrovelBot (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-15-09 11:29 PM Response to Original message |
32. ## PLEASE DONATE TO DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND! ## |
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firedupdem (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-15-09 11:34 PM Response to Original message |
35. That sounds really bright. That should go over well. The ACLU |
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vaberella (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-16-09 09:56 AM Response to Original message |
44. The article even states this... |
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billyoc (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-16-09 10:04 AM Response to Reply #44 |
47. "you suggest that O is the only who has done it" |
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grantcart (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-16-09 10:50 AM Response to Original message |
49. So the ACLU is unable to discuss nuanced legal distinctions - who knew. |
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Aragorn (784 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-16-09 12:28 PM Response to Reply #49 |
56. nuance? |
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grantcart (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-16-09 03:56 PM Response to Reply #56 |
63. The fact that one system was rejected by the Supreme Court and another (assumption) is |
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Bluenorthwest (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-16-09 05:07 PM Response to Reply #63 |
83. The Supreme Court has only ruled on the first one |
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cali (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-16-09 10:55 AM Response to Original message |
51. that's sadly lame. |
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Aragorn (784 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-16-09 11:23 AM Response to Reply #51 |
54. this happens to US citizens too |
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Old Hank (225 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-16-09 11:26 AM Response to Original message |
55. Let's not forget the mention the State Secrets invocations |
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IndianaGreen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-16-09 04:00 PM Response to Reply #55 |
65. Obama must think that we have an Official Secrets Act like the UK does |
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IndianaGreen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-16-09 12:37 PM Response to Original message |
57. I support the ACLU, as I do Human Rights First. |
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quiller4 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-16-09 12:40 PM Response to Original message |
59. When I read that I shredded my latest mailing from the ACLU n/t |
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asphalt.jungle (792 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-16-09 12:44 PM Response to Original message |
61. Oh silly people trying the same failed tactic ... |
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Cha (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-16-09 04:37 PM Response to Reply #61 |
72. Yeah, exactly. |
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mix (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-16-09 12:47 PM Response to Original message |
62. Nothing demonstrates Obama's shortcomings as a leader more |
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Cha (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-16-09 03:59 PM Response to Original message |
64. Fuck him. |
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freddie mertz (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-16-09 04:03 PM Response to Original message |
66. As a member for 20 years, I support the ACLU on this issue. |
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billyoc (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-16-09 04:11 PM Response to Reply #66 |
67. Of course not, why would it be. |
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freddie mertz (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-16-09 04:20 PM Response to Reply #67 |
69. I suppose so. But I don't pay much attention to it... |
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CBR (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-16-09 04:22 PM Response to Original message |
70. They have never received my money and now they never will. |
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freddie mertz (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-16-09 04:35 PM Response to Reply #70 |
71. I thought it was Republicans and wingnuts who demonized the ACLU... |
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CBR (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-16-09 04:39 PM Response to Reply #71 |
73. Criticizing and demonizing are not the same thing. I will give to |
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freddie mertz (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-16-09 04:42 PM Response to Reply #73 |
75. No, just responding to it.... |
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CBR (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-16-09 04:44 PM Response to Reply #75 |
76. Don't be so sure... I do work at a University -- I am sure |
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freddie mertz (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-16-09 04:53 PM Response to Reply #76 |
79. So do I. |
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QC (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-16-09 06:47 PM Response to Reply #71 |
85. No, you were not wrong. |
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freddie mertz (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun May-17-09 07:22 AM Response to Reply #85 |
88. Remember how Bush I used it against Dukakis? |
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QC (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun May-17-09 07:24 AM Response to Reply #88 |
89. Yes, I remember the "card-carrying member of the ACLU" line. |
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freddie mertz (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun May-17-09 07:30 AM Response to Reply #89 |
90. It seems to be part of a general move to the right. |
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QC (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun May-17-09 08:20 AM Response to Reply #90 |
91. Precisely. DU has lurched hard to the right since fall 2007. |
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freddie mertz (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun May-17-09 10:04 AM Response to Reply #91 |
92. Was there any particular event |
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ProgressIn2008 (848 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-16-09 04:41 PM Response to Original message |
74. K&R for the ACLU, international law and the UN Convention Against Torture. nt |
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leftofthedial (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-16-09 04:51 PM Response to Original message |
77. Time to re-up the ACLU membership |
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jgraz (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-16-09 04:59 PM Response to Reply #77 |
82. Yep. I just sent them a few more $$ |
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ClarkUSA (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-16-09 06:53 PM Response to Original message |
86. ACLU has jumped the shark with this brain fart. I'm glad I didn't re-up my membership. |
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Hippo_Tron (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-16-09 06:59 PM Response to Original message |
87. The ACLU is a crucial watchdog group in this country but I disagree with them on this one |
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