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"Obama's opponents on the Catholic right placed a large bet on his Notre Dame visit. And they lost."

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Pirate Smile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-17-09 11:49 PM
Original message
"Obama's opponents on the Catholic right placed a large bet on his Notre Dame visit. And they lost."
Edited on Mon May-18-09 12:01 AM by Pirate Smile
Conciliatory Fighting Words

By E. J. Dionne
Monday, May 18, 2009

Facing down protesters who didn't want him at Notre Dame, President Obama fought back not with harsh words but with the most devastating weapons in his political arsenal: a call for "open hearts," "open minds," "fair-minded words" and a search for "common ground."
There were many messages sent from South Bend. Obama's opponents seek to reignite the culture wars. He doesn't. They would reduce religious faith to a narrow set of issues. He refused to join them. They often see theological arguments as leading to certainty. He opted for humility.


-snip-
For his part, Obama gave what may have been both the most radical and the most conservative speech of his presidency. Acknowledging the Roman Catholic Church's role in supporting his early community organizing work, the president drew on the resources of Catholic social thought. It combines opposition to abortion with a sharp critique of economic injustice and thus doesn't squeeze into the round holes of contemporary ideology.

-snip-
Yet his argument drew on very old ideas, notably original sin and the common good. Obama was as explicit in talking about his faith as George W. Bush ever was about his own but with distinctly different inflections and conclusions.
The former president often emphasized the comfort and certainty he drew from his religious beliefs. Obama said that "the ultimate irony of faith is that it necessarily admits doubt."


-snip-
Although Jenkins made no reference to them, the scriptural readings at Catholic Masses yesterday drew on St. John's emphasis on the law of love. "This I command you: Love one another," Jesus declares in John's Gospel.
It was hard to square that message with the rage directed toward Obama and Jenkins by their detractors. Yet in raising the stakes entailed in Obama's visit, the critics did the president a great service.

By facing their arguments head-on and by demonstrating his attentiveness to Catholic concerns, Obama strengthened moderate and liberal forces inside the church itself. He also struck a forceful blow against those who would keep the nation mired in culture-war politics without end. Obama's opponents on the Catholic right placed a large bet on his Notre Dame visit. And they lost.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/05/17/AR2009051701773.html?hpid%3Dopinionsbox1&sub=AR


I like how he noted the completely opposite lessons which Obama and Bush take from their faith:

The former president often emphasized the comfort and certainty he drew from his religious beliefs. Obama said that "the ultimate irony of faith is that it necessarily admits doubt."

From the text of the speech:

In this world of competing claims about what is right and what is true, have confidence in the values with which you've been raised and educated. Be unafraid to speak your mind when those values are at stake. Hold firm to your faith and allow it to guide you on your journey. Stand as a lighthouse.

But remember too that the ultimate irony of faith is that it necessarily admits doubt. It is the belief in things not seen. It is beyond our capacity as human beings to know with certainty what God has planned for us or what He asks of us, and those of us who believe must trust that His wisdom is greater than our own.

This doubt should not push us away from our faith. But it should humble us. It should temper our passions, and cause us to be wary of self-righteousness.


There has certainly been an overabundance of self-righteousness lately so I truly appreciated this point.
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-17-09 11:50 PM
Response to Original message
1. It's funny watching people continually bet against him.
Edited on Sun May-17-09 11:51 PM by BlooInBloo
EDIT: Especially since he keeps doing basically the same thing every time.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-17-09 11:56 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. The reason they keep doing the same thing every time is....
that it is all they have.

Foiled again.....unfortunately for them.

I rate this speech right up there with his race speech.


He's getting better with time....and he's only 47!


Great article, and I think we will see many more.
CNN is most likely having a shit fit!
Guess they'll only mention it in passing in their reporting
from this point on.


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Pirate Smile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-17-09 11:57 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. I know. It is bizarre that they keep doing it. Your comment made me think of Lucy always pulling
the ball away before Charlie Brown can kick it but that metaphor doesn't completely work because Obama isn't taunting them. They just keep setting him up. It is more like they keep holding the football and he keeps sending it through the goalposts.
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Mopar151 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 05:38 PM
Response to Reply #6
40. Lucy has lost her mojo!
All it takes is falling 1 step behind........
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Jane Austin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 12:15 AM
Response to Reply #1
13. I heard on a liberal radio show the other day, the host and a caller
talking about the President.

Paraphrasing, the host said that Obama needs to learn that you don't go into a negotiation doing thus and such.

I didn't really hear the rest of the sentence because I was snorting at the idea that a radio host - even a good one - could teach a mediator and negotiator with Obama's skills, could teach him very much at all.

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AspenRose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 12:46 AM
Response to Reply #1
18. What's that definition of insanity again?
*shaking head* These people just don't get it. And they CONSTANTLY underestimate who they're dealing with.
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mwb970 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 07:36 AM
Response to Reply #18
24. They became extremely accustomed to a clueless president.
They seem to be having trouble shifting gears now that we have an intelligent person in the office. A person who makes them look like the shrill, shrieking idiots that they are, while speaking truth to power in a quiet, firm voice.

If the religious wackos could take their eyes, ears, and tongues off of Rush Limbaugh for just one moment, they would see that the man they are rejecting so mindlessly is exactly who they say they are looking for.

Pathetic fools.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 05:23 PM
Response to Reply #24
37. I'm guessing they didn't
learn how he moves from supporting him for two years in the primaries and general like a lot of us did.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 05:21 PM
Response to Reply #1
36. They're perfecting the
definition of insanity.
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angee_is_mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-17-09 11:55 PM
Response to Original message
2. That's what I'm talking about
the TRUTH!!!!
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firedupdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-17-09 11:56 PM
Response to Original message
3. When will they learn? This man is not evil, nor stupid. He made
them look like the evil, petty, self-righteous people that they are. He did it with class.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-17-09 11:57 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. If you are doing your best at doing the right thing,
in the end, you win.
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firedupdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-17-09 11:59 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. Everytime! n/t
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-17-09 11:58 PM
Response to Original message
7. Once again, Obama wins by refusing to join a fight -- by not descending
to their level.

I am so proud of this President.
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FightingIrish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 12:00 AM
Response to Original message
9. I predicted weeks ago that President Obama would turn this controversy to his advantage
I just underestimated how masterfully he would do it.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 05:26 PM
Response to Reply #9
38. I also had been
Edited on Mon May-18-09 05:27 PM by Cha
saying what an amazing Commencement speech he would be giving at Notre Dame.

I guess he wrote it, too..maybe he had some assistance..I don't really know.
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Uzybone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 12:01 AM
Response to Original message
10. Latest in the long line of gambles
Edited on Mon May-18-09 12:05 AM by Uzybone
Obama haters gambled on Rev Wright, they lost
They gambled on bitter gun owners and lost
They gambled on cancelling the debates, and they lost
They gambled on Palin, epic loss
They've gambled on the side of Somali pirates, and they lost
They gambled on the DOW heading straight down hill, and they lost
They gambled on his birth certificate, another loss
They gambled on AIG bonuses, they lost
They gambled on a pandemic, and science and nature won
They gambled on teabags and they lost....

they will not learn
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 05:28 PM
Response to Reply #10
39. They gambled on "suspending the campaign
to worry about the economy" and LOST:silly:
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Raine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 12:06 AM
Response to Original message
11. Obama is a master at handling
people and situations, our enemies are STUPID to not understand that.
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Arugula Latte Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 12:07 AM
Response to Original message
12. "the ultimate irony of faith is that it necessarily admits doubt"
I like Mark Twain's quote: "Faith is believing what you know ain't so."
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bluestateguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 12:19 AM
Response to Original message
14. It's about patriotism and patriotism means supporting your president
especially at a time of war when we have troops in the field.
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firedupdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 12:21 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. What happened to that rule? n/t
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Tarheel_Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 12:32 AM
Response to Original message
16. Highly recommended reading. I wish I had 1/10th the skills that this man possesses.
I probably wouldn't be in trouble so much. He is truly a man who knows how to disarm his enemies and stare conflict square in the face. I hope that I can return to the lessons I learned as a child in Sunday School, "love thine enemies".
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 12:35 AM
Response to Original message
17. Gutsy and smart k*r
It took guts to go there, Notre Dame, and it took more guts to invite Obama. Kudos to ND.

Reminding them of the social gospel was great. Showing up for those who support an alternative
to the madness of Bush was also a fine move.

The right to life people are selective. They don't protest the death penalty, nor do they protest
wars or the million innocent civilians killed in Iraq. No sir. They just care about fetuses. What
a narrow view of "life."

As for going to ASU, that was a waste of the #1 public servant's time. The ignorance and rudeness
of not giving him a degree was simply out of bounds. Don't invite him if you're going to dis him.

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LastLiberal in PalmSprings Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 01:27 AM
Response to Reply #17
21. 'Right-to-Lifers' care only about the fetus
Once the fetus is born and becomes a baby, well, f*ck it! We won't use our taxes to pay for medical care for this child -- that's the parents' responsibilty.

I had a long (and reluctant) conversation with an RTLer a few years ago. At the beginning I told him that it would end with him saying that premarital sex is wrong and forcing the woman to bear the child was God's way of punishing her.

One hour later, that's exactly what he said. "You could have said that an hour ago and we wouldn't have wasted all this time," I replied quietly.
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mwb970 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 07:40 AM
Response to Reply #21
26. You talked to a religious nut for an HOUR?
You have some kind of award coming. My record is about three minutes. I just can't put up with mindless nonsense for very long. You must be made of sterner stuff!
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Aristus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 09:58 AM
Response to Reply #26
29. When the foam starts to gather in the corners of their mouths, that's when I check out
of the conversation. :scared:
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 03:01 PM
Response to Reply #21
30. That's where they lose the argument
But they've been repeating this nonsense so long, they've made it a talking point and
there are a number of nominal believers, who stop believing when they or someone they
care for needs an abortion.

The sloppy right to life thinking, elevating the rights of a fetus above those of living
humans is the type of thinking that invades other walks of life and brings the nation down.

If they were as solid against war, the death penalty and other violence, they'd have a point,
not the correct point but at least a consistent point from their logic.

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sniffa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 05:06 PM
Response to Reply #21
34. They're fetushists
Fetus fetishists.
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FightingIrish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 12:47 AM
Response to Original message
19. What could have been a disaster for President Obama and Notre Dame
Edited on Mon May-18-09 12:48 AM by FightingIrish
turned into a big win for both. The only losers were the students who boycotted their own historical graduation and all the small minds whose circus failed to happen.
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vaberella Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 12:57 AM
Response to Original message
20. K/R'd and bookmarked!! n/t
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Wednesdays Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 06:41 AM
Response to Original message
22. K&R
:kick:
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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 07:04 AM
Response to Original message
23. Inside: cool-browed long-seeing Obama. Outside: squawking reactionaries.
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Clio the Leo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 07:37 AM
Response to Original message
25. And they want to BEAT this guy in 2012?
Ha ha ha .......... poor them.
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Pirate Smile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 09:20 AM
Response to Original message
27. kick
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HopeOverFear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 09:37 AM
Response to Reply #27
28. Beautiful speech and beautiful article
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Pirate Smile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #28
31. I agree.
:)
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damonm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 03:14 PM
Response to Original message
32. Best analogy:
Pres. Obama = Road Runner
RWers = Wile. E. Coyote

Everything they do against this guy blows up in their face...
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Pirate Smile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 05:01 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. That one works.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 05:20 PM
Response to Original message
35. Excellent piece, E J Dionne, thank you,
PirateSmile:)

bush used his "god" to excuse his insane behavior..as in god told him to do it so he's right.:silly:

I like the way Prez Obama uses his faith.
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olegramps Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 05:51 PM
Response to Original message
41. The Catholic Church has absolutely no credibility on the issue.
As far as I am concerned when the Catholic Church refuses to recognize the morality of contraception then they have no credibility to discuss abortion. The most effective method to prevent abortions is to prevent unwanted pregnancies and contraception ranks as the most effective practices in view of the failure of people to practice celibacy.

I would be in favor of cutting off all financial assistance to any Catholic Hospital that refuses to allow contraceptive counseling and sterilization procedures. I would also consider extending this to include their colleges. Why should my tax dollars go to an institution that teaches religious concepts I hold to be little more than ignorance?
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Pirate Smile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 09:29 PM
Response to Original message
42. kick
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