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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-22-09 01:44 PM Original message |
This is what President Obama proposes to do with Gitmo detainees |
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FrenchieCat (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-22-09 01:48 PM Response to Original message |
1. You may not get any responses, cause it is a long read. |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-22-09 01:50 PM Response to Reply #1 |
3. Yes imagine posting informed views on issues |
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HopeOverFear (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-22-09 01:54 PM Response to Reply #1 |
5. And as we well know, some people around here don't like to read. |
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Eric J in MN (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-22-09 01:49 PM Response to Original message |
2. Obama says he wants to hold people without trial. |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-22-09 01:51 PM Response to Reply #2 |
4. Creative editing. like that |
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Voice for Peace (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-22-09 02:16 PM Response to Reply #4 |
13. Thanks NJ for this post. Until now all I've seen is short blurbs & bites & |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-22-09 02:22 PM Response to Reply #13 |
15. You're welcome |
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Luminous Animal (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-22-09 03:32 PM Response to Reply #4 |
53. Why don't you explain |
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jenmito (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-22-09 02:05 PM Response to Reply #2 |
10. You, like Rachel Maddow and others, are cherry-picking parts that make him look like Bush... |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-22-09 02:09 PM Response to Reply #10 |
11. There are a few reasons, usually it involves a personal agenda |
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jenmito (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-22-09 02:13 PM Response to Reply #11 |
12. I agree. And I notice the posters don't come back to respond when the facts are presented to them. |
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Luminous Animal (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-22-09 03:36 PM Response to Reply #10 |
54. They cannot be in line with the rule of law |
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atreides1 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-22-09 01:57 PM Response to Original message |
6. Until the plan is actually in place |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-22-09 01:58 PM Response to Reply #6 |
7. I don't have a problem with people that want to reserve judgment |
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zipplewrath (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-22-09 02:03 PM Response to Original message |
8. I have read it |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-22-09 02:04 PM Original message |
We have done the same thing with prisoners of every other war we faught |
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Luminous Animal (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-22-09 03:41 PM Response to Original message |
56. There have always been and will always be |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-22-09 02:04 PM Response to Reply #8 |
9. We have done the same thing with prisoners of every other war we faught |
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zipplewrath (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-22-09 03:04 PM Response to Reply #9 |
29. This ain't Hogan's Heros |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-22-09 03:12 PM Response to Reply #29 |
33. As Obama has said there are prisoners that have no problem |
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Luminous Animal (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-22-09 03:43 PM Response to Reply #33 |
57. So, a person can receive a life sentence |
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billyoc (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-23-09 09:51 AM Response to Reply #9 |
76. We'll just hold them until terrorism is over then? |
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ellacott (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-22-09 02:19 PM Response to Original message |
14. What do you do with people who pose a threat but have not committed a crime? |
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ima_sinnic (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-22-09 02:41 PM Response to Reply #14 |
16. what constitutes "posing a threat"? who gets to decide? |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-22-09 02:47 PM Response to Reply #16 |
17. Obama made it clear that no one person would decide |
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ima_sinnic (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-22-09 02:49 PM Response to Reply #17 |
19. what is wrong with our existing laws? why can't the person be charged on the basis of EVIDENCE? |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-22-09 02:51 PM Response to Reply #19 |
21. What do you do with people |
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ima_sinnic (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-22-09 03:03 PM Response to Reply #21 |
28. I guess you can't charge them with anything, can you? |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-22-09 03:09 PM Response to Reply #28 |
31. OK you let some of those people go |
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ima_sinnic (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-22-09 03:14 PM Response to Reply #31 |
36. well, then, round up everybody who talks shit, because people DO walk all the time |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-22-09 03:16 PM Response to Reply #36 |
38. He didn't do the round up and these people are in custody |
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ima_sinnic (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-22-09 03:23 PM Response to Reply #38 |
46. he can examine the EVIDENCE against them and apply the existing LAWS |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-22-09 03:29 PM Response to Reply #46 |
52. He isn't talking about a lack of evidence |
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Luminous Animal (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-22-09 03:45 PM Response to Reply #52 |
58. Give me a scenerio. |
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Raineyb (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-22-09 03:17 PM Response to Reply #31 |
39. Last I checked we the idea of prison was for people who actually committed crimes. |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-22-09 03:18 PM Response to Reply #39 |
41. We have kept POWs in prisons plenty of times |
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Raineyb (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-22-09 03:22 PM Response to Reply #41 |
45. As this is not a war nor have we bothered to behave as though they are in fact POW's |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-22-09 03:26 PM Response to Reply #45 |
49. but this is a war. We have an organization that actively working |
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Luminous Animal (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-22-09 03:53 PM Response to Reply #49 |
62. There is a war in Afghanistan and Iraq. |
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hugo_from_TN (895 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-22-09 04:37 PM Response to Reply #45 |
63. I think the solution is to declare them to be POWs. |
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ellacott (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-22-09 02:52 PM Response to Reply #16 |
23. In his speech he gave these examples |
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ima_sinnic (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-22-09 03:06 PM Response to Reply #23 |
30. if there is no evidence that they are engaging in illegal activity, yes |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-22-09 03:18 PM Response to Reply #30 |
40. We captured and detained people in other wars |
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ellacott (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-22-09 03:23 PM Response to Reply #30 |
47. So let them go |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-22-09 03:27 PM Response to Reply #47 |
51. Easy for you to say, you wouldn't bear the burden or responsibility |
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ellacott (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-22-09 03:49 PM Response to Reply #51 |
60. I'm on your side |
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skepticscott (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-23-09 07:03 AM Response to Reply #51 |
71. By that logic |
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Luminous Animal (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-22-09 07:08 PM Response to Reply #23 |
65. 2 of those are "thought crimes" |
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billyoc (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-23-09 09:20 AM Response to Reply #16 |
74. Yes. |
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ima_sinnic (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-22-09 02:48 PM Response to Reply #14 |
18. if someone is "posing a threat," why don't the rules of evidence apply? |
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jenmito (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-22-09 02:51 PM Response to Reply #18 |
20. If you read the whole thing you'd see it would NOT be "only because he says so." |
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ima_sinnic (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-22-09 02:53 PM Response to Reply #20 |
24. I heard the speech and have read it. He did not explain why anybody |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-22-09 03:14 PM Response to Reply #24 |
34. What law do you convict a foreign national who is plotting an attack on the US? |
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ima_sinnic (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-22-09 03:19 PM Response to Reply #34 |
42. you mean, no evidence exists whatsoever that can be presented in a court of law? |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-22-09 03:21 PM Response to Reply #42 |
44. Like soldiers engaged in war |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-22-09 02:54 PM Response to Reply #20 |
25. That's pretty much it. So many people seem unwilling to |
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Raineyb (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-22-09 03:19 PM Response to Reply #25 |
43. You flatter yourself if you think your agreement with Obama is because you engage in |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-22-09 03:23 PM Response to Reply #43 |
48. Well I guess if you can't follow his complex views |
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Raineyb (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-22-09 03:53 PM Response to Reply #48 |
61. I follow him perfectly. I just happen to think he's wrong. |
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skepticscott (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-23-09 07:10 AM Response to Reply #20 |
72. Oh, yes...the president promises |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-22-09 02:52 PM Response to Reply #18 |
22. It seems pretty clear that Obama will have judicial review |
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ima_sinnic (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-22-09 02:56 PM Response to Reply #22 |
26. there is no need for this new, separate, detention for "threat" |
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jenmito (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-22-09 03:45 PM Response to Reply #26 |
59. You said that he claimed he could detain people just because he said so. |
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skepticscott (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-23-09 07:14 AM Response to Reply #22 |
73. No, the only thing that's clear |
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annabanana (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-22-09 08:12 PM Response to Reply #18 |
68. because the evidence is tainted by having been got by torture... |
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mvd (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-22-09 03:01 PM Response to Original message |
27. I don't agree with tribunals for multiple reasons |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-22-09 03:11 PM Response to Reply #27 |
32. You're welcome. You know I think we all have to get use to having an intelligent |
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Captain Hilts (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-22-09 03:14 PM Response to Reply #27 |
35. The military lawyers who opposed the tribunals say not enough has been done to make them fair. |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-22-09 03:15 PM Response to Reply #35 |
37. Obama did mention either else where in the speech |
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mvd (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-22-09 03:26 PM Response to Reply #35 |
50. As I said, I oppose the trubunals/indefinite holding, but... |
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Captain Hilts (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-22-09 03:38 PM Response to Reply #50 |
55. I agree we need to keep our options open on how to handle these folks. |
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billyoc (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-23-09 09:50 AM Response to Reply #50 |
75. It isn't a regular war because it isn't a war. |
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Clio the Leo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-22-09 06:19 PM Response to Original message |
64. Thank you. NT |
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Wednesdays (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-22-09 08:02 PM Response to Original message |
66. K&R |
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annabanana (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-22-09 08:11 PM Response to Original message |
67. "those at Guantanamo ".. and those alone. No one else will have |
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EFerrari (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-22-09 10:50 PM Response to Reply #67 |
69. That's what we were told about wiretapping, remember? |
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annabanana (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-23-09 05:54 AM Response to Reply #69 |
70. but it wasn't |
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EFerrari (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-23-09 01:41 PM Response to Reply #70 |
77. Except the idea of preventive detention is being floated for |
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