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vaberella Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-29-09 03:37 PM
Original message
Anti-Gay Marriage targeted to Black Americans in NYC
I just saw the advert while watching MSNBC. It's definitely targeted to the Black community in New York since it ONLY shows Black couples and children portrayed in the pictures. They're asking Black Americans to call their Senators to ask, "No," on Gay marriage.

Disturbing, disgusting---always pitting oppressed peoples against each other. Ugh.

I don't want to give the fools traffic but it is nationformarriage.org.

:mad:
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-29-09 03:48 PM
Response to Original message
1. Yah it's disgusting, but I'm not sure I even appreciate the logic of it...
Do they really expect lawmakers to go out saying "I voted against gay marriage because my black constituents were against it"?

Since when to politicians pay so much attention to what black constituents want?

OOOOOOH waitaminute - it's so they can lie and blame it on black folks, like they did in California.

Now it all makes sense. Sorry for being slow.
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NYC_SKP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-29-09 03:59 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. I'm joining your "dense" club...
I hadn't thought about that secondary and equally (if not more) disgusting rationale.

Bleachhkk.

Fuck.

:nuke:
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vaberella Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-29-09 05:25 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. That's where I thought they were going with it. n/t
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-29-09 04:44 PM
Response to Original message
3. That is unfortunate.
They are going where they believe (and with good reason) that they can "fire up the masses," though. That's why they are doing it.

It is a sad fact that there are a substantial number of religious (and some, not-so-religious) black Americans (along with religious Americans of other ethnicities) who "have a problem" with homosexuality. The "problems" they have range from the religious objections to the cultural ones. I used to have trouble with an older and VERY religious black woman on my staff in DC who would make smart "Biblical" remarks at a gay employee, generally revolving around Leviticus. She required "counselling" on a semi-annual basis, at a minimum, and was marked down on her evals for her inability to adhere to the Equal Employment Opportunity guidelines. Part of the reason that Kirbyjon Caldwell and Donnie McClurkin "appealed" on that Carolina Bible Tour is because the unspoken suggestion being put forth during that exercise was "Hillary/Pro-Gay AKA anti-Bible" while Obama was "The Precise OPPOSITE." Nothing was said, but it didn't have to be. It wasn't "true" either, but it was a way of sending a message.

A second unfortunate reality is that way too many black (as well as other ethnicities) people who are gay are afraid to come "out" because they risk being ostracized by their ethnic community. They rationalize their behavior as "optional" because they don't want to lose that connection to the whole community, religious and traditional thing that they grew up with and from which they derive strength and comfort. Someone made a fortune on a book about fellows on the "down low" --tons of articles have been written on the topic as well--a few examples:


http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2005/05/01/MNG4TCID0F1.DTL&type=health

Many down low men find it difficult to see themselves as gay because of the stigma attached to homosexuality in the black community, said Phil Wilson, executive director of the Black AIDS Institute in Los Angeles. Being gay risks rejection by family and friends.

They don't identify with gay culture, which they see as white and effeminate. And when they do venture into gay communities like San Francisco's, which are predominantly white, they feel unwelcome, according to several studies of gay men of color.

Because these men have so much at stake in keeping their sexual activity secret, it is unknown how many there are and it is difficult to trace the sexual history of their female partners.

The longer these men lead double lives, health officials say, the higher the risk for their partners.




http://www.nytimes.com/2003/08/03/magazine/double-lives-on-the-down-low.html

Today, while there are black men who are openly gay, it seems that the majority of those having sex with men still lead secret lives, products of a black culture that deems masculinity and fatherhood as a black man's primary responsibility -- and homosexuality as a white man's perversion. And while Flex now offers baskets of condoms and lubricant, Wallace says that many of the club's patrons still don't use them.

Wallace ticks off the grim statistics: blacks make up only 12 percent of the population in America, but they account for half of all new reported H.I.V. infections. While intravenous drug use is a large part of the problem, experts say that the leading cause of H.I.V. in black men is homosexual sex (some of which takes place in prison, where blacks disproportionately outnumber whites). According to the Centers for Disease Control, one-third of young urban black men who have sex with men in this country are H.I.V.-positive, and 90 percent of those are unaware of their infection.

We don't hear much about this aspect of the epidemic, mostly because the two communities most directly affected by it -- the black and gay communities -- have spent the better part of two decades eyeing each other through a haze of denial or studied disinterest. For African-Americans, facing and addressing the black AIDS crisis would require talking honestly and compassionately about homosexuality -- and that has proved remarkably difficult, whether it be in black churches, in black organizations or on inner-city playgrounds. The mainstream gay world, for its part, has spent 20 years largely fighting the epidemic among white, openly gay men, showing little sustained interest in reaching minorities who have sex with men and who refuse to call themselves gay.

Rejecting a gay culture they perceive as white and effeminate, many black men have settled on a new identity, with its own vocabulary and customs and its own name: Down Low. There have always been men -- black and white -- who have had secret sexual lives with men. But the creation of an organized, underground subculture largely made up of black men who otherwise live straight lives is a phenomenon of the last decade. Many of the men at Flex tonight -- and many of the black men I met these past months in Cleveland, Atlanta, Florida, New York and Boston -- are on the Down Low, or on the DL, as they more often call it. Most date or marry women and engage sexually with men they meet only in anonymous settings like bathhouses and parks or through the Internet. Many of these men are young and from the inner city, where they live in a hypermasculine ''thug'' culture. Other DL men form romantic relationships with men and may even be peripheral participants in mainstream gay culture, all unknown to their colleagues and families. Most DL men identify themselves not as gay or bisexual but first and foremost as black. To them, as to many blacks, that equates to being inherently masculine.




And to give equal time to this issue, here's an article where the writer postulates that the whole phenomenon is somewhat of a myth. I would concur with this writer that it isn't a matter that affects only one ethnicity (i.e. this isn't only a "black" issue)--I think it crosses racial, ethnic and cultural lines--and is probably more likely to be found in any culture where family, cultural traditions, religion, and a tight-knit community take center stage:

http://www.slate.com/id/2161452

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vaberella Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-29-09 05:27 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. It's unfortuante, but very true. ~sigh~
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Orsino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-29-09 06:17 PM
Response to Original message
6. Are these the actual anti-marriage crazies?
Or is there an election coming up that the usual wingers are trying to game?
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vaberella Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-29-09 07:02 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. I'm not sure. I know that Patterson is pushing for Gay Marriage recognition. n/t
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ShadowLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-29-09 06:50 PM
Response to Original message
7. They're trying to kill support for gay marriage in the state senate obviously
Obviously it's an attempt to take away from the votes in support of gay marriage in the state senate, I think all but one or two of the state senators from NYC have said that they support the bill to legalize gay marriage in NYC. I doubt it'll help much, unless there's an actual ballot amendment on gay marriage in NY.

It already doesn't look too likely that the state senate will pass gay marriage, we need too many of the votes that still look up for grabs there, and too many of them seemed to be leaning towards voting against marriage equality, so their ads likely won't make much of a difference.
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vaberella Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-29-09 07:03 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Let's hope not. I dont' want that on the ballot. n/t
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ShadowLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-29-09 07:47 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Well some polls showed that more NYers support gay marriage then not, it's a dead heat now
I think the last few gay marriage polls in NY have shown that it's mostly a statistical dead heat on the gay marriage question, but with gay marriage seeming to have a slight lead.

Gay rights supporters also won't be so distracted/caught off guard like in California either if it happened, where people were paying too much attention to the presidential race, and an antigay marriage group came in at the last moment and started to spend heavily on ads when it was too late for a gays rights group to quickly form/raise cash and counter attack before the election.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-29-09 07:51 PM
Response to Original message
11. Really.
Are there any ads to counter these bigoted ones?
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ShadowLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-29-09 09:45 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. None that I know of, I'd be willing to donate to groups countering them
I agree with you that we really need some national group to air proGay marriage ads in places where the issue is being discussed. Unlike the other side we don't have groups like the Mormon church donating tons of cash to help our cause. That's a big deficit to compete against. What we need are stronger ads to counter them, maybe something like having an old interracial couple talk about their struggle at getting the right to marry, and arguing that the antigay marriage people are using the same bigoted reasoning to deny gays of marriage as people were with them decades ago.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-29-09 09:51 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Definetly!
There's lots of money out here from all kinds of people who want to see equal rights for everyone.

And, it will be done..
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vaberella Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-29-09 11:07 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. Yup, I saw it today when Tameron was on around 4pm.
And no, there are no counter ads.
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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-29-09 10:47 PM
Response to Original message
14. The gay marriage bill is supposedly coming up soon..
Maybe. It's not surprising to me at all, that these people would be making a big push to turn the tide. They did it here in MA, and when that didn't work they tried to get support for an amendment. They need to be shouted down. Hopefully there will be more advocacy in New York. I read something about Maya Angelou getting on board.

http://www.advocate.com/news_detail_ektid87219.asp
May 29, 2009

GOP Lobbyist Joins N.Y. Marriage Push
Click the byline to view more stories by this author.
By Julie Bolcer

With less than one month remaining before the end of the legislative session in New York, the Log Cabin Republicans on Friday announced the retention of a top lobbying firm with strong GOP ties to help pass the marriage-equality bill in the senate.

Log Cabin said it has retained Meara Avella Dickinson, the firm of Mike Avella, who most recently served as chief counsel to former Republican senate majority leaders Dean Skelos and Joseph Bruno.

"Log Cabin is thrilled to have a Republican with Mike's experience and stature on our team," said Log Cabin's legislative adviser Jeff Cook in an e-mailed statement.

Avella's former boss Skelos, now the minority leader, said in April that his Republican senators would be free to vote their conscience on the bill, which later passed the assembly by a vote of 89-52 with support from five Republicans on May 12.

With Democrats holding a slim 32-30 majority in the senate, and some in their party such as Sen. Ruben Diaz Sr. opposed, the bill requires Republican support to pass.

However, it remains unclear when and if the bill will come to the senate floor for a vote. Senate Majority Leader Malcolm Smith has insisted that he will only allow a vote if it is certain the bill will pass.

Thus far, no Republican senators have publicly said that they plan to vote for the bill.

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