I waited 1 2 3 4 5 6 - finally Obama mentioned women

I guess we should be glad we weren't number 7, his last point.

his speech was all about the religious of the world. don't us unbelievers count? not even as a number 8 point?

and what he had to say about the world of women was short, weak, and unsatisfying. 'we need educated'. no shit! how come Obama didn't ask the men of the world to let girls be educated. how come?


Climate Change should have been #1 but it was barely mentioned at all. insanity. total head in the sand.


he quoted the Bible: "peacemakers are the sons of god"

no daughter peacemakers? no daughters of god? shame on you Obama.

but I'm not surprised, as we know Obama worried about being seen with a 'girly' dog. apparently his manhood couldn't stand that. (as if there is such a thing as a girly dog.)


the speech was for men. asking the violent men of the world to join the peaceful.

he didn't speak to or ask the help of the world's women. so noted.

:popcorn:

This should be good.

Also I'll be watching the speech when it repeats in 20 minutes (9 a.m. here in California)--I'll make damn sure I have a pencil and paper so I can keep tabs of every perceived slight to my issues as he addresses the Muslim world in a very important speech. He should really address the murder of Dr. Tillman in this exact time and place, don't you think? After all, I've been a Planned Parenthood supporter for 45 years. :eyes:

Hekate

What is curious about the OP is the "framing" --- and when he quoted a passage from the Bible how he didn't modify it to use the word "women" thus making the whole thing a slight towards women.

As a woman I am embarrassed by this kind of ranting which diminishes the work of feminists who would never dream of scrapping the bottom of the barrel looking for imagined wrongs when so many legitimate wrongs are committed each day--- I was not insulted by Obama's speech. I was relieved that he was not embarrassing the living hell out of me and that he made some inroads for further discussion.

Have a coke with that popcorn....

His audience was the muslim world.

His audience was the muslim world.

You're kidding, right? RIGHT????
:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

for Obama to address at this conference with Muslims feeling that the world's last great superpower is at war with their religion is far too stupid to kid.

OP should be embarrassed by this foolishness but I'm not holding out that they're smart enough to realize that either.

Your post is absurd.

because I'd have to tear my hair out if it was real.

grab the hair at the skull and then yank.... real hard.

nt

nt

and thank him for it.

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Obama's lack of manhood and concern for womens' issues, in Egypt, are both major problems we're all ignoring.

Gotcha.

:shrug:

most of the sane however would call it idiotic.

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Not every speech is going to resonate with every person. Speeches are written for specific audiences at a particular time and place. I am a non-theist female who will refrain from judging Obama's record regarding non-believers and women on the basis of one speech delivered in the Middle East. I hardly detect the presence of a misogynist theocrat in Obama.

...that are obviously supposed to be littered throughout that spiel, since I refuse to believe anyone with the minimal level of intelligence required to be capable of operating a computer could have posted something that stupid and actually meant it seriously.

Yeah, imagine making religious concerns a central focus on an address specifically directed to muslims! What a joke! Who does this guy think he is?

I guess that means he still cares a little bit about women. I can't wait for him to not use the word in a speech at all. That'll show the broads that the guys are still in charge.

:sarcasm: smilie here because somebody with an OP this stupid just wouldn't get it.

nt

a good point.

:rofl:

I was counting, too. 1 2 3 4.... not a word.

:spank:

them and that damned pointy unicorn looking thing. DEATH TO NARWHALS! :evilgrin:

nt

I realize his speech was directed to the men of the middle east as that is who runs everything.

I realize he felt he couldn't mention women or daughters too much or he would lose the men.

it makes me heartsick.

I believe he was trying to make a case for the plight of Palestinians who need their own FREE state. A very difficult position to take without sounding preachy.

I understand the importance of women's issues in the M.E. --- It is relevant. But your OP made you appear myopic. Unable to see the giant handwriting on the wall.

He needs to get his foot in the door before he can sell his ideas. He is smart and I hope that he will ask Hillary to address the terrible history of abuse regarding females throughout the world. I hope he addresses the dire situation directly. But a start must be made someplace.

Hillary works for the world's women every day.

bad thing?

I also included some thought on Obama addressing the issue directly...

If you've read differently, please share that with us.

:boring:

:)

their lead, or is it too much to ask?

:eyes: :crazy: :banghead:

:)

macho boy! I'm frightened.

In your book, Obama does no wrong. You have found your hero. He said it; I believe it; that settles it.

Why not read about HRC and learn of all the many actions she has done for women and chidren. Then you wouldn't have to look stupid and by asking for 120 examples.

And maybe you would be enlightened to read the January, 2008 Vanity Fair article interviewing Michelle Obama and what her thoughts are about life with a political husband.

Better yet, why not read about the lives of women living under Muslim rule...."Reading Lolita in Tehran" comes to mind. Or you could just google. Google Women in Darfur.

Would you enjoy walking around in all black when it is over 100 degrees...remember, these women are not allowed to drive. Many are not allowed outside without a male escort. Would you like to live that? Are you capable of walking in the shoes of others? Can you understand the plight of these women and why American women are hurt and angry when they see their sisters living with no freedom?

Seriously, your consciousness requires some enlightening. Women are on this Earth, too. And we really aren't here to be told what to do by males.

President Obama addressed women's issues during his speech. He wrote that part of the speech himself, too. All day yesterday on cable news, every single Muslim woman who was interviewed -- and there were many who headed up Muslim women's organizations who were asked how they felt about his words-- loved it. For proof, read the CNN and MSNBC transcripts.

The only ones who are outraged seem to be the ones who are the usual bitter Obama/Obama supporter bashers.

And you know he wrote that part of the speech how? You were there? I don't watch MSM anymore...too much propaganda, but please enjoy yourself....don't go to the library and read a book. Just sit and watch.

CNN owned by Time Warner and MSNBC owned by GE. Yes, I want to hear everything they say.

Sorry, but your Willful Ignorance is showing. Ignorance = Ignored. I love that button.

buh bye.

:hi:

They got to Hillary, too!

Ahhhhh, now we get it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9IkEoce3xY

he's dealing with here - and the importance of putting relationships on a footing of mutual respect before dealing in depth with difficult issues.

Does anyone really think that the doting father of two daughters and the adoring husband of a very strong woman won't want to address the issues of women's rights? He wasn't speaking to an egalitarian society. He did an excellent job of setting up what should be, what needs to be, an ongoing conversation. And unfortunately, there are any number of critical issues vying for the top spot.

Women are property in that part of the world, and all the ranting, raving and demanding that some would like to see will be of absolutely no benefit to anyone, and could actually set back what we would all like to see accomplished. I think the issue needs to be addressed, but it will have to be more slowly accomplished than many would like.

I have had some small problems with him regarding women's issues right her, but on the whole I don't find him to be at all anti-woman.

I'm the first to be outraged at the treatment of women there - having spent a little time in the gulf myself, and seeing it up close and personal - years later, it still ticks me off.

But it's a question of what you want to accomplish: short term release of tension and pats on the back, or long term progress. There would have been no doubt in my mind that Obama's predecessor would sell women's rights down the river and lose not a second's thought on it. I do not believe the same of Obama.

...should share equal freedoms and that he supports governments that are truly for and by the people. That covers most of the women's issues with Islam right there.

I'm hoping you are making a poor attempt at being sarcastic here because if not, you are wreaking of ignorance and grasping for straws.

In fact he didn't even mention the word proletariat or even refer to the working class once.

More proof that he is a corporatist Wall Street stooge. :eyes:

order of importance?

You really shouldn't expect the President of the United States to be able to read your mind.

Obama's success in his goals for the Middle East, Russia, and Asia depend to varying degrees on his ability to move toward a peace agreement for Palestine and Israel.
No other foreign policy goal is more important in the near term.
Climate change is important, but is not a starting point for reaching a two state solution, unless someone could convince Palestinians and Israelis that climate change was the biggest threat to their security.

Also, please explain how the order that Obama mentions something in a speech determines Obama's priority for that issue.
Why should I believe that?
In his global zero speech, he mentioned nonproliferation 5th in a list of 5 major issues that threaten the world. Climate change was second.
In a speech about nonproliferation, he mentioned nonproliferation last.
From that, one might more safely assume that the issue mentioned last is the one he is most concerned about.

as I type this.


food and clean drinking water are and will be fought over.


Climate Change is the number one danger to the whole world.

the number one issue is being able to make a living and raise a family while being able to walk across the street without being killed.

nt

Is climate change the reason why so many Israeli and Palestinian children suffer from severe PTSD?

with their violence. children have no power.

and climate change is and will be a big problem there over drinking water. I just posted an article on the subject.

most significant threat that they face--the ongoing conflict. I don't see how you can take issue with his not addressing an issue that's not the most important.
Are you saying that Obama is wrong in trying to deal with the most significant threats first?

They'll rec it out of spite now. Like they do everything else in their lives.

:P

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and cute.

ain't that the truth.

Obama is the worst kind of sexist, the kind with a strong wife!

If we only had John McCain as president we would be so much better off!! Or maybe he would have died from the cluster fuck that has been the first half of this year and SARAH PALIN would be president right now. Now THERE WOULD BE AN ADVOCATE FOR WOMEN'S RIGHTS WE COULD STAND BEHIND!!!

even as a joke.

:rofl:

Even Pat Buchanan and Joe Scarborough liked this speech!

Oh....on edit...maybe that is a good reason to be pissed about it! :rofl:

to share your thoughts with the rest of the class.... Or are you just trying to inflate your post count????

Your comment makes no sense.

I've stopped trying to make sense of the do-dos.

is the best orange cat ever. He is a funny guy.

.

I know –- I know -- and you can tell from this audience, that there is a healthy debate about this issue. I reject the view of some in the West that a woman who chooses to cover her hair is somehow less equal, but I do believe that a woman who is denied an education is denied equality. (Applause.) And it is no coincidence that countries where women are well educated are far more likely to be prosperous.

Now, let me be clear: Issues of women's equality are by no means simply an issue for Islam. In Turkey, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Indonesia, we've seen Muslim-majority countries elect a woman to lead. Meanwhile, the struggle for women's equality continues in many aspects of American life, and in countries around the world.

I am convinced that our daughters can contribute just as much to society as our sons. (Applause.) Our common prosperity will be advanced by allowing all humanity -- men and women -- to reach their full potential. I do not believe that women must make the same choices as men in order to be equal, and I respect those women who choose to live their lives in traditional roles. But it should be their choice. And that is why the United States will partner with any Muslim-majority country to support expanded literacy for girls, and to help young women pursue employment through micro-financing that helps people live their dreams. (Applause.)

Where is that damn pony? I suppose he should have gone in and imposed you will on the people of Egypt? OP=EPIC FAIL.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/the_press_office/Remarks-by-the-President-at-Cairo-University-6-04-09/

I am relieved that you posted this. :)

nt

face civilization. Therefore one could just as easily conclude that Obama puts the most important issues last.
Ensho, you haven't provided any defense of the claim that the order he mentions an issue alone says anything about its relative importance.

it isn't really all that important. It's all about where it shows up in the order of the speech!

:crazy:

Combined with the OP's comment that 'Hillary works for the world's women every day', I can guess what's really bugging him/her.

If a woman chooses to cover her head or to wear a burka, then that's her right to do so. But, and that's a big but, in some of these countries it is NOT a choice, it is mandatory.

The kind of repression of women in countries like Saudi Arabia is very disturbing and depressing.



These kind of images are so disheartening. She's even wearing gloves, for crying out loud!!!

x(

that our society is okay with women out of burkas, the more they will treat women in a modern fashion.

It has to be not forced: the women of those countries were raised in a manner like my grandparents. You ask my grandmother why she never pursued higher education, and she looks at me like a madman, as if "why in Heaven would a woman do that?"

It's going to be a long process, but I have hope it will be inevitable. :) Ridding the world of medieval tendencies is not so easy, it seems.

in similar garb at our pool trying to watch her children swim. She was not wearing gloves and the face was a bit more open with a scarf over her nose and mouth but still sad... She could not get in the water because of the weight of the cloth - (I don't know how the poor woman in the picture does it.)

I watched the woman at our pool and it pissed me off that she had to dress like this.

Her kids were so unaware of how horrible the scene was as the mom rushed along the edge of the pool begging them to stay close to the edge because she couldn't be in there with them.

But...

I do not think Obama could change this right now.

I think it is sad and terrible but Obama can not make it go away... The culture must change from within -- and we can only hope that pressure from outside will help.

And the picture is disheartening. :(

Why would a woman in CA dress like that to be at the pool with her kids? I wonder if it really was her choice or her husband's.

As for Obama's speech, it was a nice feel good speech akin to someone putting their toe in the water to test its temperature. Actions will speak louder than words, and I don't mean just his administration's actions, but also those of Israel and the Muslim nations. If there is a sincere effort to reach a middle ground, maybe there's hope for that region. Only time will tell.

Obama is the US president, there's only so much he could. I will say though, that he was the only US president who could have delivered that kind of speech due to his own background. Therefore, it may be more effective.

;)

As terrible as the burka is, there is also something touching and subversive about the relationship between the man and the woman in that picture.

I assume they are husband and wife because she would not be touching anyone not her spouse. But event this level of public affection is surprising and wouldn't happen even between spouses in many countries.

Although it just makes me sick to see how women are treated in some of these countries.

:(

"I am convinced that our daughters can contribute just as much to society as our sons." Umm, women already do contribute just as much to society as men. What is he talking about? It sounds like something that would have been said in the early 20th century.

If there was something that I got out of this election is that sexism is rampant in our own country. Legitimate discussion and disagreement on issues is perfectly acceptable. Attacking female politicians in personal, misogynist terms is not. The media was horrendous to Hillary and so was the Democratic party by turning a blind eye to it until after she dropped out of the race.

I will even go as far as saying that Palin's treatment was also appalling. It's interesting how women's groups will only speak up for a liberal woman, but not a conservative. I disagree with Palin's politics from the word hello, but some of the things that I heard and read about her made me cringe. Women's rights should not be only for those who we agree with politically. Otherwise, what kind of hypocrites are we?

:-(

needs to be convinced that women can contribute just as much as men do. If he says something akin to "In the west, women already to contribute just as much as men, what the eff is your problem here in the middle east?" it's going to sound like finger pointing and they aren't going to listen.

to millions of women in many parts of the ME. It's simply horrifying. Pandering to that type of systemic oppression is not how I want the USA to address it.

The reality is that many of the people to whom he was addressing that remark probably don't think women are capable of equal contribution to society. So he's got to change some minds. You try telling a society how wrong they are about their fundamental beliefs and see how many of them listen to you.

me that there is no way in hell he would say the same thing as it relates to a race of people. Can you imagine, "I am convinced that black people (or any race) can contribute just as much to society as white people." Ha! Can you imagine a race of people in a country being forced to where cloths over their heads or face death? America would condemn that behavior in the strongest possible terms. No, only women get this kind of treatment--where we have to be "sensitive" to a given society's culture when commenting on its abhorrent treatment of women. It's deeply disturbing to me that Obama took such a weak stand on this issue.

We can just leave it at that. :hi:

nor where they the focus of his speech on the economy.


I sense a pattern.

Unless the men of this world can learn to live in peace, its women and children will continue to suffer. What greater statement could he have made supportive of women than that there is no freedom/democracy without rights for women. This son, husband, and father is no fool nor is he a mysogynist, as much as some would seek to make him out to be.

will no doubt cause much controversy in the Muslim world.

Isn't this a good thing?

Methinks you just wanted to complain about something/anything?

at this very moment by religious zealots, busybody strangers and husbands, in their bodies, their churches, their health care, their rights, their homes, the public discourse and around the planet?

the ranks of the ridiculous.

I guess that Obama hates all females... including his wife and daughters :eyes:

He just insisted that every girl be allowed to go to school, work and contribute to society on a level equal to males.

But you are right, he did not go the an area of the world full of religious fervor and demand that they embrace atheism.

But I agree, the ABSOLUTELY WORST part of the speech was his not standing up for men who own "girly dogs."

Not ONE FU**ING MENTION of men with GIRLY DOGS!!1! Couldn't that oppressed minority have been numero 8???

And weren't 4 out of the 5 people he considered for that position, women?

Who is his HHS Secretary?

Who is his Secretary of State?

Who is his Secretary of Homeland Security?

its raw fauxtrage, something only an irrational Obama hater would make an issue.

extremely glad!

<snark>

;)

n/t

:crazy:

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but this post just pushed me right off that wagon...

:D

After all, they are the canary in the mineshaft of our environment.

so you clearly tapped into something here. :eyes:

:crazy:

C'mon, surely we're a big enough tent to find one more person willing to rec this bit of, uh.... something. No? Anyone?

He didn't do very much to promote the rights of the equine population either, did he? DAMN HIM!!!!

Just saying.....

The president's audience was in Cairo, Egypt.

My parents were teachers.

I heard his remark on women and education an ocean away quite differently than you did. Education is a vaster universe than you seem to hold it to be. It is a universe, not a village. It is at once attendant with disciplines and wild with possibilities, creating a landscape in which anyone -- male or female -- can encounter wonder and self-realization and greater independence.

President Obama asked that women be part of that landscape on an equal basis with men, and this to a significantly Islamic audience.

IMO you have missed the red side of a green barn.

"he quoted the Bible: "peacemakers are the sons of god"

no daughter peacemakers? no daughters of god? shame on you Obama."

-You need to look into the history of the bible and see what this said in its original text. The quote is actually gender neutral.

mention women as the first thing in a major speech - particularly in the Middle East and particularly one designed to soothe international tensions caused by the idiocy (and need I say blatant misogyny) of the last administration.

That he mentioned women at ALL in such a major speech speaks VOLUMES to me. Was it perfect? No. But it WAS sincere and well-experienced in his life - how important women are to him. I don't doubt that no matter where he puts them in his speeches. I feel I know where he puts them in his mind and heart.

Your rant is bizarre and totally self-centered. I saw no misogyny whatsoever in his speech. None!

Shame on you!

And encourage everyone to drive hybrids?

And what about recycling plastic bags?

Geez I guess he doesn't have the right priorities. :sarcasm:

The President, mid-sentence, could have reached down on the lectern and grabbed a Chocola or another beverage, possibly a Fresca or a Mountain Dew even, putting that specific brand name before the public eye.

A lost opportunity.

One of his many shortcomings. :eyes:

One of the best in a while.

SHAME! SHAME!

Of course we're not going to be able to relate to it, but Obama has lived in that world.

raising the issue of sexism. It's the last 'ism' to conquer. The cultural mindset of today is so far behind the mindset of the 1960's and 1970's regarding sexism. Then along came Raygun and women were pitted against each other in the MSM...'Stay at home mom' vs. "Working mom" vs. 'Why aren't you a mom?' vs. 'I feel guilty for working mom' vs. 'I gotta work Mom.' And surrounding all of this, the Culture War of Abortion permeated the atmosphere.

Does anyone notice the emphasis placed on MOM? Still today I read articles that if you are not a Mom, you're not a real woman. Do men face this pressure to become fathers? No. Look at the number of single moms today...!! That is a hard life...I saw my mother live it.

If one would look at the history of Soap Operas...in the '70's and early '80's, female leads were not having children. Today, that's all they do. They even have the child of their rapist....this would have been unheard of in the 1970's.

It's a Backlash....2 steps forward and one big step back. I think Obama likes women....he owes them for their votes. I hope Sotomayor is Pro-Choice...she is Catholic and that brings the Court to 6 who are Catholic (very unrepresentative of our population). If Obama had not nominated a woman, he wouldn't have heard the end of it. He knows when to throw a bone.

Yes, I believe he likes women as long as they go along with him.

Again, ensho...thx for raising the issue. Our sisters in the Muslim world don't enjoy much freedom. I watched Frontline last week about the Taliban in Pakistan. The Taliban boys were indocrinated with the words...'Women should not be wandering around. They must stay home.' It is up to the women in the Middle East to fight for their freedoms and many will die doing so. I wish them the best of luck in finding ways to be the person they want to be.

I do recommend that people read 'Reading Lolita in Tehran.' It shows how a very secular country where women could be professionals turned into a theocracy and its effects on women. I didn't want the book to end.

nt

I would be laughing my butt off if I didn't suspect that you were actually serious.

Yes, Obama, a man married to a woman whom they both acknowledge for many years made more money than he did; a woman who can go toe to toe with him in terms of education and achievement; a woman who for some time was his BOSS, only likes women who "go along with him."

That must be why he nominated Hillary Clinton, a real "go along" gal as his SoS; that must be why he put Susan Rice, a woman so brilliant and hard lined that even the people who love her say she's got "strong convictions" meaning she's tough as nails as his UN Ambassador; that must be why he brought his MIL to live with him in the White House; and why the White House itself is overflowing with some of the smartest, most traveled and experienced women in the country from Desiree Rogers to Valerie Jarrett. And now with Sotomayor, Obama has brought in another well-documented "go along gal" to the Supreme Court.

I am glad that many women, including myself, are not so blind to what's right in front of our faces that we create a narrative out of thin air and beat to death any truth or fact that doesn't fit it.

Talk about bitter and clinging

the replies to posts saying 'how can you be serious?'

Why don't you go read the Vanity Fair Jan. 2008 interview of Michelle??? Quite enlightening. The only reason Obama got to play Community Organizer (for his resume) was because Michelle was pulling down $300,000 as a lawyer. He has been prepped/handled/advised by TPTB since he was the head of the Harvard Law Review.

And just a couple of weeks ago after the garden was planted, a child asked Michelle what she did at the WH. Michelle said: "Oh, I'm the lucky one. I just get to have fun. I don't have to make any of the hard decisions. I get to play with Bo.' This was on NATIONAL EVENING NEWS. Get that message, little girls??? TPTB have put a very tight leash on Michelle. This nauseated me. Looks like hubby approved.

Let's just see how another Catholic (they're 6 now if she is confirmed) looks at Roe vs. Wade. She has never said a word about her views on abortion. If she isn't pro-choice, give me a male who is. Cuz if you can't control your destiny, you are NOT free. Compulsory motherhood is not freedom.

As I understand it, Valerie is a long time friend of theirs. I don't know 'well-traveled' has to do with job qualifications, unless you're a travel agent. I haven't read much about Desiree. I primarily look at policy ACTIONS and really am not to excited about speeches...only to see if the talk matches the walk.

You have your impression of him and I have mine. BTW, was HRC in Saudi w/ the Prez???? Actions speak louder than words.

I'm damn serious.

Because Michelle, who was criticized by the Repubs for being the "angry black woman" tones down the rhetoric and her profile just a bit, somehow that means that her HUSBAND is somehow not really a feminist or pro-woman??

She is First Lady. She doesn't make hard decisions. And she is also smart enough to realize that if she did try to make hard decisions right now that the Repubs would be all over her. That shows an UNDERSTANDING of the political realities on the ground. I think it's pitiful and a disgrace that Michelle has had to bring herself down a notch to pacify easily threatened people in this country, but I'm damn sure not going to blame her or husband for that. Because you CHOOSE to blame the two of them shows your own lack of sophistication and understanding, not Michelle and certainly not her husband's lack of "pro-womanhood." And you can look at that woman and just tell that she is biding her time until she can do great things and champion great causes as First Lady, and she has already put her toes in the water by championing military families, going around the world encouraging girls to educate themselves and speaking up on behalf of Sotomayor.

I noticed you didn't have a thing to say about Susan Rice because what could you say?? You conjured up some crap about Sotomayor based on absolutely nothing. The fact that you don't see the benefit of having well-traveled people in the highest echelons of US government really says more about you than it ever could about any of them.

And maybe Hillary didn't need to be in Saudi Arabia because she knew that her BOSS, a man who is committed to human rights including those of women, was there and representing this country SPECTACULARLY.

And oh, I'm "damn serious" too.

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i'd like to comment on this aspect, though i'm still in the process of evaluating the candidate personally.
i don't know much about her (getting caught up on my reading, unfortunately).

but setting aside her religion for a moment, i'm pleased he is nominating a woman (and the woman is a person of color :thumbsup:).
i'll get back to her religion in a moment.

OK--regarding this issue of being "well-traveled."

these comments are from a travel writer, daisann mclane regarding our last pResident:

"the other downside, at least in the last couple of years, has been witnessing firsthand and close-up the disintegration of America's image in the rest of the world. it's depressing to know that so many people around the world think my country's government is foolish at best, warmongers at worst--even more depressing that have to agree with them. when george w. bush was running for president, my biggest objection to him wasn't his position on taxes or abortion- it was that he was a man who had almost never traveled abroad. spending time in a different place watching the world from an unfamiliar (and perhaps, uncomfortable) perspective should be a requirement for all our leaders. i hope that america's next president will be someone who knows how to speak at least one foreign language!"***

i quoted this, as it's another way to look at the issue of "travel" in terms of how it broadens one's world view and contributes to making them a well-rounded individual.

as for her religion/being catholic...
at this point, is it really fair to presume things about someone, based on their religious status? in my opinion, it is not. but you are free to your opinions, of course.

there *ARE* pro-choice catholics. i don't know if she is one, but she could be. there are pro-choice female, catholics on this board. i know as i speak w/them in the pro-choice group. :hi: (waving to any reading this).

there's also this organization:
http://www.catholicsforchoice.org/about/default.asp

again, not up to speed on this woman's background, yet. BUT what do we know?

we know that pres. obama has taken a LOT of heat from the anti-choice catholics regarding his stance on abortion (pro-choice). the pope issued a statement after his confirmation telling any catholics that voted for him, they were NOT welcome to take communion. :eyes: to be fair, i'm taking all of this into consideration.

it is my hope that perhaps they are remaining mum on the issue (on her stance on abortion) at this time, to alleviate the candidate from being blocked, or her or her family being harassed, etc. (a renowned abortion provider was just murdered):shrug: or perhaps there are other reasons why...i'm merely guessing.

ok--returning to lurk.
sorry to interrupt. carry on...



***Quoted from Travel Writing by Don George, published by lonely planet

edited for clarity. :)

When a politician does something, even -- no, especially -- when it's something you approve of, your first response should be, "it's not enough, I want more".

Obama knows he gave a good speech. As evidenced from this thread, he has more than enough people telling him how brilliant and amazing he is (and he IS brilliant and amazing at times). And even if nobody said anything, I suspect Obama is well aware of his talent at speechmaking. He doesn't need another voice singing his praises.

What he needs to hear -- what he's explicitly ASKED to hear -- is where he falls short. Ensho is doing just that. And because she's doing it, she and the people like her have much more of a shot at improving the Obama presidency than do any of the folks slamming her or laughing at her.




PS: I expect that I'll get insulted and laughed at for posting this. Before you do, ask yourself this: when is the last time that *praising* a politician changed anything?

I was particularly moved by her chastising critique of Obama's unabridged direct quote of biblical scripture.

:eyes:

You may not like how she said things (hell, *I* don't like everything she said), but at least she's saying something.

And her core message is something we all agree on (I hope): At some point, Obama is going to have to confront the women's rights issue in Islamic countries.

Her "proof" that he didn't was anorexic.

You may not like how she said it, but she's got the right idea.

to any cause, including this one. Starting back in the primaries, it became clear some women have a distorted view of feminism and use that misrepresentation of a most serious issue as a cudgel politically.

One doesn't have to be a member of the choir to appreciate the scope of his unprecedented speech. It was bold and progressive, and for that I applaud him.

And I applaud ensho's enthusiasm, if not her execution.

My neighbor's old dog is enthusiastic too, but sometimes he piddles on the carpet in the process of expressing his "enthusiasm."

You may disagree with her conclusions, but did she actually say anything that was provably false?

If you want to have a conversation about international women's rights, fine, but using that solemn subject as a cudgel to slam Obama politically vis a vis "his manhood couldn't stand it" and "he didn't reword that quote to my liking" (paraphrased) is disingenuous and dishonest, i.e., not truthful.

If you and the OP are uncomfortable pausing a moment to high-five the president on a groundbreaking speech, that's one thing. But to validate the ridiculous assertion in this essay that he doesn't measure up in support of women's rights which would come as quite a surprise to all the strong women Obama has surrounded himself with, well that's quite another - but your prerogative as everyone is entitled to their opinion.

* edited to punctuate what you missed in your response below

"If you and the OP are uncomfortable pausing a moment to high-five the president on a groundbreaking speech, that's one thing. But to validate the ridiculous assertion in this essay that he doesn't measure up in support of women's rights, well that's quite another - but your prerogative. "

I said nothing of the sort. I hope I was clear in my intent to defend the OP's right to voice her opinion, even if I disagree with some of it.

You haven't addressed the overreaching theme of the essay, instead choosing to isolate and reword the premise. My point is the premise is bullshit, but you are perfectly welcome to stand behind it.

There are plenty of people slamming her -- what would be the point of one more voice? I like the fact that she had a point of view and came out swinging.

And, again, I dispute your claim of lack of truthfulness. Calling something disingenuous and dishonest does not make it so. Harsh, maybe. But dishonest? Not by a long shot.

If you say so. :hi:

I completely agree with you on this one. What he said about women receiving an education is important.

Not sure how OP got off on this tangent, but reality begs to differ.

I think Obama is trying to divide and conquer, to convince the moderate Muslim people to step into the 21st century instead back into the Stone Age where the Taliban wants to take them, and in doing so recruiting their assistance in rejecting the extremists.

edited for :hi:

:thumbsup:

it became clear some women have a distorted view of feminism and use that misrepresentation of a most serious issue as a cudgel politically.

Upthread, there's someone saying Obama only likes women who "go along with him." That must be why he's married to Michelle; appointed Hillary as SoS (that whole primary battle was just to get his attention, you know); appointed Susan "Tough as Nails" Rice as UN Ambassador; has nominated Sonia Sotomayor to the SC etc. etc. etc.

Some don't want to see what's in front of their faces because it destroys their narrative. And when that narrative is not born of anything even resembling reality, I think they feel that it must be protected that much stronger instead of being abandoned for being untrue.

The OP makes the absurd inference that Obama is sexist and then reveals her true motivation here:



Ahhhhhhhhhhh, now we get it.

I find those that cry wolf on serious issues to be bereft of credibility, and why these catlike attacks on DU are allowed to continue boggles the mind. It feeds the bitterness of a few and disgusts everybody else.

The piece above is about this op-ed:

KERRY: Economic crisis' new challenges

It's rather bittersweet to be reminded of what a great president JK would have been. I see his elegance and fierce intelligence in Obama.

but it is kind of a girly dog... :hide:

"girly dogs" are ones that you can put in your purse

or at least I think that's the difference! :)

It isn't supposed to. praise is used to reinforce good behavior.

wrong place

It just seemed to be very superficial.

She has breasts.. i'm sure they would have been points A) & B) of her speech.

:eyes:

I'm a woman and certainly wasn't offended by Obama's speech. I just hate whining.

And, the Hijab?! What about the eleven year old who just died because of forced FGM.
95% of women in Egypt undergo FGM.
What about wome being stoned to death.

I guess the Hijab is safe.

Then again, was he talking to the women of the middle east or the male leadership o the middle east.
A feminist speech it was not.
WE need gender parity, badly.

Hillary Rodham Clinton - role model for oppressed women:

This is a joke

as the things he mentioned before.

I swear to God some people spend more time looking for imaginary shit to bitch about than appreciating how much better things have gotten under our new president. Is everything the perfect place we want it to be? Of course not, but at least base your criticisms in some kind of reality :eyes:

Not to mention the whole assumption Obama is a misogynist is bullshit.

:eyes:

since it came nearly at the end of his "I have a Dream Speech". :eyes:

lately days go by I don't come here then when I do I see a post like this and I know why I don't spend much time here anymore. :-( Some people can find anythng to whine and complain about, grow up.

Muzlims are t3h sexist, yo!

gets tiring.