Woohoooo Obama just said there needs to be Public Option to keep the Private Companies Honest!!

Now will Democrats back him up or run like the chicken shits they are.

that was beautiful.

Did he details any minimum requirements?

therefore, it will need to be robust and competitive.

Because the government does things all the time that is sold to be in the benefit of some purpose, that falls short.

this ain't a white paper.

Depending upon the legislation of the "public option", it could either be helpful, or a "shut up and leave us alone" concession.

Apparently, people don't care one way or another, so guess what you'll probably end up with

Void of details.

A public option can be so many things. It can be a repository for the high risk consumers (which helps private business profit). It could also create a level playing field with intense legislation that makes it viable (including hamstringing private insurance by outlawing a low of their profit-driven practices).

But until anyone knows what it will end up being, there is little point in celebrating. Instead, people need to inform themselves more about the mechanisms by which it can fail or succeed and advocate for specific, non-compromising legislation.

bad for the blood pressure you know

Contentment could lead to satisfaction (of a flawed solution).

Disappointment could lead to fighting for a more perfect solution.

What I want people to do here is to, if they must settle for a "public option", settle for a viable one (not any at all).

wait until the bill is being discussed in Congress, or voted on?

Tons of people are cheering, right? Im actually the one saying slow down and figure out what you are cheering for. It could be crap and it could be good. Figure out the difference and know what to fight for.

do you have all the answers?

I do have all the questions though.

:rofl:

Keep your hand on your wallet and your back to the wall when Obama is in the room.

a Public Option. And he said it several times today.

Also in my opinion. He put several clues out there. One that was big. Demanding that Health Insurance companies not be able to deny pre existing conditions. That is a big clue that the Public Option will be strong.

But the bottom line is, its probably really tough to know how useful it'll be until its all said and done unfortunately.

I'm just trying to point out that its existence alone (strong or weak) is not equivalently a good thing.

He sounds more in line with the Kennedy bill that the Nytimes reported on

The pressure needs to be kept on - Congress is starting to weasel out.

I hear he was going to be in Green Bay. I wish I could watch that.

the town hall.

If he decides to ram it through, it'll be done.

I don't believe moderate Dems in the House or the Senate will block him. If they do that, it puts their standing in even more jeopardy because it makes the Democratic party look like they can't deliver on any promises. And when that happens, independents start looking at the other party. Health care going down in flames is one of the big factors that lead to the 1994 massacre. The Dems should be more afraid of it not passing.

he puts his foot down.

The last 2 sentences are why I am surprised that it appears to be going so poorly so far this time. Are they that desperate to lose office and repeat the past?

That is what is going to help the American people. Let's not lose sight of what this reform is supposed to be all about.

Go Obama.

Necessary to make you shut-up, go home happy, and vote and donate to Democrats in another 4 years. :)

if cynicism and gloom and doom is all they can come up with for this issue? I mean, if you're not going to at least try to be optimistic about the outcome of this, then why bother?

They want only failure in this debate, because failure is their mother's milk. It is the air they breathe and the water they swim in.

You characterized me spot on.

who said I was talking about you?

OH SNAP!

So, you know, only an idiot wouldn't make that connection.

.

it's funny ain't it?

Im glad you and your buddy have the whole world figured out.

ha-ha-ha-ha-ha. :p

At least I had a "cool", eh?

i.e., they're mindfucking themselves. It's easier for them to believe that no real reform will happen, that way they won't get hurt when it doesn't happen. But that doesn't work, because they end up feeling hurt anyway.

But the proof will be in the pudding. Stay tuned.

Im not going to personally be hurt anyway (I already have single-payer health care). Im just trying to help and open other's eyes to what is going on here.

the rest of us what we don't know. Because if ONLY we knew what you knew, then we wouldn't be so optimistic. We'd be disillusioned, just like you.

gtfoh :eyes:

Did Rush teach you how to make up emotions and thoughts about people who disagree with you?

that's how I know where you're coming from.

One who doesn't opt to be a presumptuous asshole. To each their own.

Im optimistic about the outcome of a real fix, but that isn't what this all is, and it isn't what this is all meant to be.

the majority of "our" elected officials seem content to sell us out to the health insurance companies - just so those campaign contributions keep rolling in.

If they had any real intention for reform they would have given single payer an actual chance and they would not be in such a hurry to ram something through before anyone has a chance to figure out how badly we're being screwed. Remember the Patriot Act? That had to passed in hurry as well.

We've waited this long for better access to health care, we can wait a little longer while a real solution is worked out.

because a Public Option sounds important for those who want it..no matter that Mary Landrieu isn't voting for it.

It's true.
:patriot:

It looks like some sort of public option will be signed into law at some point.

Now, the Republican reptiles are apoplectic about this option (assume this includes some Dems), so how "good" this option will be still remains to be seen.

yet he asks for their input on "reform" and pretty much shuts out single payer advocates. :shrug:

Maybe he thinks we're too stupid to notice the inconsistency?

It never has been; it never will be.

What, does he need a 90% majority on the houses? WTF? Other industrialized countries have had real healthcare systems for over 50 years

which in TODAY's world of fleeting employment makes very little sense. Back in the days of stable jobs and rock solid pensions, it PERHAPS had some merits.

Anyway we need to slowly move people out of this mindset. Providing a decent FREE public alternative (in parallel with private insurance) will allow them to realize its not quite the bogey-man many make it out to be.

Then we'll have a grass-roots and wide public support for true single payer.

What do you propose, forcing them out of their private insurance plans? No snark, I'm asking honestly.

Why would you need to? They will cancel on their own accord.

If you fund single-payer healthcare with progressive taxation and cover everyone, why would anyone continue to pay extra for a private policy that covered the same things? It would cost a fortune to carry a private policy in addition to funding a public one. People can look at their bills and make that decision on their own. The decision they cannot make is what taxes to pay and which ones to avoid. Just as people have to pay for war they disagree with (and don't benefit from), in single-payer systems people pay for health care they all benefit from.

There may be some who don't want to let go of their private insurance, for whatever reason. However, if they notice how good their friends with public insurance have it, or like you pointed out, take a look at their bills, it could sway them to switch to a public plan. You get several million people doing that, and eventually, it's bye bye insurance companies. BTW I printed out HR 676 and I'm fixing to read it right now.

I was referring to universal mandated public insurance funded through taxation. There is no "switching", since everyone is covered. An existing policy is in addition to being covered, and therefore, useless but expensive. 99% of people would probably cancel a useless and expensive policy when they are already covered (despite divorce/job changes/having kids/getting sick/etc)


I think you are still referring, by language like "switch", to the public option mechanism. Well, while its true that switching would bankrupt the private companies IF the public option was better. What if doctors aren't forced to accept the public option? What if it is self-sustaining (not funded)? What if private plans are cheaper since they are still allowed to deny high-risk patients and deny claims arbitrarily? What if actually paying out on sick people bogs down the public option so much it becomes bankrupt? People automatically switching assume that these private insurers wont use all the tricks of the trade to unlevel the playing field and fuck the public option (or use it to profit more). Its existence isn't a guarentee of success. The industry needs a complete face-lift for it to even work (which begs the question, why not just go single-payer).

Anyway, the way I suggest it, there is no "switch". Its not an option...you fund it and are covered by it. No one in their right mind would want to fund a private plan on top of that which is insufficient in coverage. Private plans are fine for supplementing uncovered features, but people are not stupid enough to pay more than twice as much and get nothing more.

well then we have to put pressure on our elected officials to make sure the public option would be better than private insurance.

Don't stop midfield. Draw some lines in the sand and make this reform means something real.

The entire concept of allowing these immoral and unethical insurance companies to continue is a compromise in itself. People need to make such a compromise worthy or real reform will not come for a long time yet.

I agree, but I'm not sure it's possible to take down a behemoth like the healthcare industry all in one fell swoop. I mean, the tobacco industry's been around longer and we haven't gotten rid of them completely even though we've sorta sanctioned them.



I agree. Nothing worth having is easy to get however, and it's going to be a real fight, but that's where my stubborn optimism comes in. I believe we can do it! We elected the first African American to the highest office in this nation, if we did that, we can do this!

because most of us have no choice but to sign up for a private plan. Either through our employers or an individual policy. And, as more employer plans are covering less and costing more, there are more people wanting another option. There are polls that indicate the majority favor a single payer plan, but the majority is being ignored.

Um, no. That's not entirely true. If most people could sign up with a private plan, they would (that includes me) but they can't because the private plans turn them away (as they did me).

"Because whether you like it or not, people still use private health insurance "

And it is true that most people who are covered are covered by a private plan beause they don't qualify for any of the existing public plans. Many of us have no choice but to take the plan our employer offers and more often than not the employer is only offering one plan.

see, I used to work for the federal government, which has EXCELLENT health plans. That's my one regret about getting fired from that job LOL

this year it's really crappy - and next year we're moving to a Health Savings Account plan - which might work if you're a 20 year old male, but it's so hot when you're a 50-something year old woman. It all started to go down hill when they switched to a for-profit carrier (not the one I used to work for).

I had a biopsy last year and after my mammogram came back odd and, even though it was benign and I don't need another check until my regular annual mammogram this year, I have been told that I probably would not be able to get private insurance if I were looking for an individual policy.


I heard someone on Thom Hartmann's show say that if someone set out to design the worst possible health care delivery system, they probably couldn't have come up with something as bad as we have not.

They would still have the option of additional private insurance if they didn't think that single payer by itself covered enough.

of everyday people (not corporate suits I could care less about them) who work at insurance companies?

for naught?

Color me disappointed. ;)

Obama didn't call for a bi-partisan healthcare bill today, unless I missed it, and that's good

On the "public option" the devil is in the details.

What kind of public option?

That's an open question and we'll soon find out if President Obama and Rahm Emanual (using his sharp elbows) lean on Congress to adopt a strong public option that would essentially be an extension of Medicare.

Rahm Emanuel: "The only nonnegotiable principle is success. Everything else is negotiable."

That's Rahm EMANUEL.

Thank you.

:sarcasm:

we will have a public option! I needed to hear that.

They are just a bunch of well-paid murderers. If corporations are persons, then they need to be put up against the wall and shot.