Iran Update: Crowds shout "DEATH TO THE GOVERNMENT" We are witnessing the death of 'Neo Con-ism'

"Death to the Government" "Death to Dictator"

Something very big is happening in Iran today.

Massive rallies have been tying up Tehran all through the night.

Ahmadinejad in a last minute desperate attack has labelled all of his attackers as "Zionist Agents". NPR went into the rural areas and found that even in traditional poor rural areas that will support Ahmadinejad his support is slipping.

If he doesn't win 51% he will face a single opponent and the final election will become a referendum on Ahmadinejad. Shi-ite culture is based on collective leadership and when any one leader becomes too 'big for their britches' they are taken down. Even if Ahmadinejad should somehow survive, it will not be accepted, he is seriously compromised. Already crowds in Iran are calling "Death to the Government" in a strange reminder to the crowds calling for "Death to the US".

The unintended results of the demise of Ahmadinejad will be to Neo Cons. Neo Cons in Iran and the United States, Israel and Palestine.

Candidate Obama's loan stand among all candidates for talks without precondition set the stage for President Obama's speech in Cairo. The leaders may be restrained but the people in the street and even the urban elites have had enough of the neo con line 'that it is all our way or you are a traitor'.

The key trigger for Neo Con-ism is that we are under attack. It works. It works in the US, Iran, Israel and Palestine. But, to paraphrase Lincoln, "You can make some of the people afraid all of the time, and you can make all of the people afraid some of the time, but you can't keep the world in a permanent state of fear.

Following the President's speech in Cairo, the anit Hamas (calling it 'pro-western' is incredibly chauvinistic) coalition in Lebanon took the first step.

Courageous young people in Iran are taking the second step.

Obama spoke and the Iranian people listened.

And what everyone will see is that you can defeat extremism without a war, engage a country without bombs.

Once that truth is exposed the Neo Con movment in the US, and the mirror images elsewhere will start to wither and die.



Latest pictures:


Presidential Candidate Mir Hossein Mousavi


















Students chant 'death to dictator' in loud protest against Iran president Ahmadinejad

Here is youtube of last night's demonstrations in Iran:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XihzjnK0DG4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUj672BY2YQ&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9ec6RQ-veU&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JI6x6L9vJYo&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9EK3DURKX4&feature=related

:kick:

Young, more secular, open to the outside...and willing to shut down their version of the right.

just before asshole's "Axis of Evil" speech.

This is why I have always felt Iran should just be left the fuck alone because they will work their shit out.

AWOL Bush and his idiotic rhetoric gave the fundies in Iran a big boost.

This is the sort of thing that gives me hope. Thank you for posting!

This is long overdue.

Thanks for posting this.

I went there as an AFS summer program exchange student in 1978. We were the last group of Americans AFS sent there. My Iranian host family remains "family" to me to this day.

If you ever get the chance to visit, go. You won't regret it.

in production and photos and essays on culture.

The author is Roloff Beny.

It is out of print but readily available used for <$100.

I knew this was going to start happening. All over the world. People are tired of the "my way or the highway" crap that's taken hold.

Bush emboldened America's political enemies.
Obama emboldens America's political allies.

Your choice, America.

Oh, and how Awesome is this guy:

and I'm a man.

Well done, sir! :)

:rofl: :fistbump:

:7

to say Yes We Can in Farsi?

Though a more proper transliteration would be 'baleh, mi tavaaniim' (doubling for long vowels... ).

Nicely said! :thumbsup:

I have been looking at the protests and the pictures of them all day and this movement makes me very, very happy.

stay the fuck out of their business and stop overthrowing their democratically elected leaders and Iran will probably be just fine.

Good luck to them on electon day -- I am hopeful for their future.

our noses out of their political business.

Hopefully we're in for plenty of joyous demonstrations
all over the world as the next generation jettisons
the hatred of their elders and tries to bring the
world together.

Good luck to the Iranians in their election tomorrow!

but I think our putting Obama in the WH may have inspired them. It seems only ~20% of Americans thought either #43*'s terms were legitimate - the Iranians and those of other nationalities may have resigned themselves to election fraud as a way of life yet, even with the election fraud apparatus in place, we were able to remove a good portion of our right wingers from public office.

The few Iranians I've met are among the nicest, most honest, best educated and most tolerant people I've ever known. Their current pResident is not representative of the people. Then again (unless I'm totally mistaken), the Iranian President isn't really running the country, either.

it's ffascinating what's happenning over there + how it relates to what is happening over here. Tomorrow will be interesting.

That is the tough thing. The US government - no matter who's at the wheel - has this funny habit of saying one thing and then giving no followup.

We're seeing change in the middle east now. A lot of it is riding on Obama's words and the hope he will prove different than his predecessors. If, however, the United States fails to live up to his words... if we keep the same policies, if we keep the wars going, if we keep shaking knives at everyone there... or even if we just ignore them... the next elections we see will swing into some motherfuckers worse than what we're used to. And it'll be decades before we can even attempt to repair it.

Just the opposite is true. The "Zionist Agents" (i.e. the NuttyYahoo crowd) would love for Ahmadinnerjacket to be reelected, so they can justify their own extremist paranoia and lust for war with Iran.

Let's hope neither extremist wackjob is happy tomorrow.

If O didn't make history before...he's making it now.

...that is for sure.

But how is he in any way responsible for the people of Iran getting fed up with theocratic assholes?

But it's the fact that this guy has an even better chance and really opened the doors for discussions. This was discussed by Reza Aslan (commentator on Iran for both CNN and MSNBC), that Obama's statement on Islam makes people that much more hopeful on change and definitely a more commonality and unity versus we are "good" and you are "bad" which Bush was a proponent of.

he undercuts the Iranian Neo-Con establishment that is fearmongering.


If Hamas, for example, selected a new leader who proclaimed that they had no hostility towards the US or Israel and wanted full relations based on mutual respect, then Cheney and Netanyahu's position would be greatly reduced.

chess moves he's so famous for.

I'm sure there are some in Iran who heard Obama's speech, and his call for dialogue... but I think it would be falsely self-congratulatory (Obama-congratulatory) to assume that he was the pivoting point. Khatami and Rafsanjani are both former presidents, both moderate reformers, and both are supporting Mousavi.

Meanwhile my cousin in Tehran has been complaining about the clashes in the streets... the economy... and being forced to wear a "headdress and curtain" in the summer. Under Ahmadi nejad (that's the way she spells his name... so I'm gonna go with that) it's apparently a lot more strictly enforced. It's also no help that Ahmadi nejad has even apparently been going so far as to attack Rafsanjani's wife?...

I think Ahmadi nejad has essentially pissed off his nation's voters just the way that Bush did. Not having Bush statements to air to justify his hardline ways is definitely not a plus for Ahmadi nejad... but when I ask my cousin, Obama is never mentioned as a motivating factor behind what is happening in Iran.

All the same... with Mousavi and Obama in power... I may not need to meet my cousin in Istanbul, instead of Tehran. :)

a few months ago Israel was staging attacks on Iran.

Now we are staging future talks.


It is true that Bush started direct talks with Iran in the last few months but it was Obama that clearly stated that the future relations with Iran would be diplomatic.

Whether or not they quote or even know who Obama is, is irrelevent. 77% of the Iranian people now want better relations with the US. That doesn't happen when you call them the axis of evil.

The women on that region are some of the most beautiful in the world. PLUS - all the Persian women that I have met (met quite a few in the DC area) are just as beautiful on the inside - which, of course, makes them more beautiful on the outside.

One of my best bud is Persian and she's in Iran as we speak....probably having a blast with all the hottie Iranian men over there. She promises to bring one back for me.

However my main point...is that they show that Islam is fuckin' fantastic and women are not as oppressed in the religion as so many other women (who have no understanding of their culture and history) seem to think.

....maybe some women in more urban cities have freedoms and privileges that seem to fly in the face of what the MSM portrays.

However, men have been hanged in Iran for being gay. Women have been stoned to death for being raped. Honor killings go on in many parts of that world with the blessing of the religious leaders.

I do not think that Islam is 'fucking fantastic' in how it deals with women.

Let's be honest of what happens to women who are raped by the police. They are not even more victimized. We have states that charge the woman for a rape kit test---roughly about $500.

So this is not relegated to Islam like people like to think. I'm tired of people thinking Islam it's own separate bubble. If we sit there and look at each situation we're not any better. Our treatment of women in the US and in the Western world is disgusting and we're still fighting against it.

You seem to push this impression that it's not "fuckin' awesome" then I can say that the US is not "fuckin' awesome"----and as such there are extremists who don't make it awesome. But overall---people have a twisted view and want to think they're some hope since they can do this and this----when even they live under rules and regs. In our world being thin, shaving, and keeping up date with fashion is a requirement to the point where girls commit SUICIDEin order to fit in to what we deem is "beautiful."

Nothing deals with women well so far. However, in this case---and in wearing the Hijab-- especially the women I've met they CHOSE to wear the hijab. They weren't forced to wear it. However, when you decide to wear it, it's a commitment. Don't get me wrong--there are those that force you like the burka in Afghanistan, yet when extremism is nullified women in Afghanistan actually had a good life with education and participation in public discourse.

Rent "The Keeper:The Legend of Omar Khayyam".

It's a great movie about keeping family traditions alive. Made by a Persian guy, Kayvan Mashayekh, who left Iran when he was about ten due to the overthrow of the Shah. He cast a bunch of his relatives in it and they are gorgeous people.

The two leads, Omar Khayyam and his girlfriend Daria, are Spanish.

Also stars Vanessa Redgrave.

~

Because it's not a "law" in Islam. It's actually a choice (and let me make clear---interpretation is everything when it comes to religion--and Islam has many many many different interpretations like so many other religions. I don't know if you've ever met a "Traditionalist" Catholic--but they're something else and you might not have since many of them are French). If it's the very traditional sect, or if you go to temple, then it's required. But it's not something that is glued to you day in and day out and if you don't wear it you're being blasphemous. It's a choice, since most of my friends who are Muslim had the choice to wear it. One of my friends mum asked her if she was "sure" when she decided to go traditional---and she went very traditional. I think people have a lot of misconceptions to the various degrees of Islam and the social structures. Actually I don't think many people sat there and read the Koran, really had in depth conversations with women and men part of Islam or even been to a temple. It was required that I went to temple several times and I was close to converting because I felt the sense of community.

If you went to a Islamic board--one that I practically live at because they have a wedding thread and all the ladies are on the beauty/wedding thread and let me tell you. Hijabified things are "in." That's all I do is talk about what can or should "hijabify" (the term used).

I'm aware that their are some very liberal Muslims who don't see shariah as requiring the veil, but certainly in Iran they have less power.

I'm familiar with the Catholic "traditionalists," including SSPX. A pretty gruesome, atavistic movement in view.

Technically they wear it wrong and more as a fashion accessory than the way it is meant to be worn, when it's worn.

The Republicans forced the "Reagan won the cold war" meme to take hold among the media....


We need the "Obama changed the middle east" meme to take hold now.

the first two were subverted by Western powers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_Constitutional_Revolution

:thumbsup:

Just like the racist piece of shit yesterday. Lovely.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

I was referring to Ahmadinejad. He's the one calling all his foes Zionists.

It's embarrassing to tell but it's always some kind of eye-opener when you are confronted with real people instead of just a country and the negative news because of a crazy leader.

Now, maybe, this movement will have a chance without a lunatic in the White House.

Dictators tend to fight back.

Hitler was one exception but even he had many years of propaganda and perception manipulation, Ahmadinejad does not have that to his credit despite his attempts.

Iran has always been one for revolution.

for the collective cleric council.

Iran's clerical regime knows from their own experience overthrowing the Shah just how powerful discontent among the masses can be. The Shah had a first rate military and it didn't do jack shit to save him from the wrath of the masses.

nt

now would be about the time he would break out the 'Axis of Evil' speech.

Great op. The pics were awesome.

My heart goes out to all those young Iranians who want their own kind of change in their own country. I hope beyond words that they succeed.

They are heirs to an ancient civilization and Iran deserves to take its rightful place in the community of nations.

sw

Too bad he probably won't recieve the credit he deserves though.

Thanks for the thread, grantcart.:thumbsup:

There was report of a warning from the Republican Guard -- something about they would not allow any revolution associated with this election. We shall soon see how this plays out. The Obama foreign policy strategy is being tested here. Fingers x'd!

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article6482011.ece

And I think he's absolutely correct. The only reason the clerics allow Presidential elections is to keep the masses from overthrowing them. They know quite well from their experiences with the Shah that if you have enough widespread public discontent, your military can't save you from the peoples' wrath.

I hope they do the right thing.

also there is growing evidence that the top clerics are tired of Ahmadinejad


But even more important is that the clerics are not monolithic.

could be the foundation for Obama's future ME foreign policy.

reformers were gaining ground. Then Bush the fuckhead came out with his axis of evil bullshit, and they elected ahmachmouddinajad:)

Countries are tired of living in the dark ages.

And one has to ask....Do they hate "America" or do they hate the Bush Administration?

and, you even spelled what's his name better than me in post 105

Or even if McCain had gotten in and was in the process of re-demonizing them and threatening the same thing?

Moderate Iranians would turn against the USA and the west with a much greater resentment, and for good reason.

But that's the neo-cons whole plan. To create enemies and tensions and terrorism in order to justify their own looting and murder sprees.

I pray that Mousavi wins for the sake of the Iranian people...and world peace.

to provoking something huge under Cheney. And don't believe for a minute that his older female offspring won't continue to try politically agitate no matter what the outcome and try to carry on his neocon cold war legacy. That's one very scary Washington family.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liz_Cheney

and a grave threat to his own people.

if he hasn't already!

a controversial result will result in massive unrest

when the voting starts, in US time?

My fingers are crossed!

Engels is the MSNBC envoy in Iran.

There would even be a whole new "look" about the leadership.

A country has to free itself from tyranny or the center will not hold. Iraq and Afghanistan are prime examples of that.

I just hope we don't fuck it up somehow and drop "The Shaw: Part Deux" in their laps.

No matter the race, nationality, religion greater knowledge brings change.

Whoa, dudes, chill.

We ought to find a way to export hippy thought to Iran.

... earlier this week on GRITtv. I think a taxi driver he was riding with was saying something like "Death to traffic!". So, though they are cursing the government and earlier were cursing us, it's perhaps not as literal as we might interpret it as, much like we literally aren't advocating people be sent to hell when we say "Damn so and so".

Death to this hangnail!

OTOH, they're not allowed to dance. I'd be pissed too.

in so many words that it didn't matter who became the leader of Iran. Basically we need to fear them regardless.

keeping my fingers crosses for this one!

Change the names in some of these posts and one will get the idea they are reading a thread at the Free Republic.

It's a fact that there has been growing disenchantment amongst the Iranian populace with their govt. long before Obama was considered to have a serious chance of winning the nomination.

I do gives kudos to President Obama for backing off the saber rattling with Iran and I think that removed a tool that Mr Ahmadinejad could have used to shore up support for his own fragile hold on power.

The USSR had long been considered a sick man whose demise finally occurred during Reagan's administration. Much could be said that it was Gorbachov who recognized it and instead of fighting it further, piloted the end of the USSR in a way which minimized the chaos. I do not see Ahmadinejad as any analog to Gorbachov.

As for Iran, what we are witnessing is more of a loss of power by the religious people who until recently (10 days ago) had a STRONG grip on power and looked to remain in control. The big change of late are the dynamics inside the country. Is it fair to say it is Obama? Possibly not, but could it be something that finally is happening because Bush is no longer there helping fuel the saber rattling? Possibly so. People are now more willing to take a chance.

He was trying to make the point that neither Reagan nor Obama had any influence on Russia or Iran.

In the 70s we were reading CIA reports that projected an economic collapse of the SU


The change in tensions with Iran and Hamas is the result of a change in leadership, but the deep problems in Iranian society have been there for some time.

with his warlike rhetoric, he strengthened the hardliners and allowed them to hang on for several more years... similar to how bellicose Bush strengthened the hardliners in Iran with his rhetoric.

In fact, Reagan's bellicose rhetoric likely prolonged the USSR hanging on for several more years, as it strengthened the hardliners in the Soviet Union. If Reagan came into office & negotiated a peace in 1981, the Berlin Wall could have been torn down on his watch instead of Bush Sr.

a positive ray of hope for the Middle East and indeed the entire world!!

that radicalized enough of Iran to elect what's-his-name in the first place.

after 9/11 the largest spontaneous candlit demonstrations in the world, were in Tehran

the world how soft power works. Maybe in my lifetime, the old festering wounds of our past may finally heal.

And to the Iranian people,

موفقیت خوب وصلح باخودتان باشد

(good luck and peace be with you.)

the color of hope :)

caan you even do that in Iran????

hugs and kisses

I wonder when we will know who wins.

What we just did here seems to be contagious : ) First Lebanon and now Iran. Palestine is next!!!!!! This is change we can all believe in !!!!! Its long over due for the extremists on all sides to be sent back to the holes they crawled out of and let the clear thinking adults run the show.