Noone is expecting Obama to fix everything in less then a year!

So, please, STOP using that as an argument against legitimate criticism of the Obama administration.

I have not seen ONE single post complaining that Obama hasn't fixed things quickly enough. We all know he inherited a mess. Understood.

However, if Obama makes a current decision that people believe is deeply wrong and it will have implications for the future of this country, it is legitimate to point it out now.

For example, I am a single payer advocate. I think it is atrocious that single payer has been taken off the table, and I am highly upset that Obama has invited the health insurance leeches to compose the VAST majority of his advisors. (When drs & nurses are ARRESTED at Congressional health reform meetings for just trying to get ONE representative of single payer at the table, and the President offers nary a peep on this outrage, we know there is a BIG problem). The e-mail he sent recently touting his negotiations with 'health care stake holders' (ie insurance reps) sickened me. The health care stake holders are the American people, not insurance lobbyists.

The constant news is that health care costs must reduced, yet, our leadership refuses to address the biggest drain on health care - the insurance companies. All the negotiations, all the spin, it is all directed in allowing the insurance companies to continue to profit off our sickness. The fact that we have to BEG to be given a public option is disgusting. And, the public option greatly concerns me because it can be written so that it will provide little tangible benefit over private insurance. It is all a big shell game.

This is a MAJOR crisis and the implications of Obama's actions NOW have huge implications for our future.

When should I speak up about it? After terrible legislation is passed and we are stuck with a broken health care system for another, five, ten, twenty years?

And, this is just one example.

We just spent another fucking 100 billion dollars for the wars in Iraq & Afghanistan.

Expansion of Bush era policies on spying, rendition, and secrecy.

Mountain top coal removal

And, the whole travesty of the mishandled recovery package that directed money to failed banks while burdening the next generations with back breaking debt.

The consequences of the bad decisions Obama has made surrounding these issues are foreseeable and knowable. Activism works by protesting the CURRENT poor decisions and policy of a administration. Retroactive activism does NOT work.

Can I see a signed loyalty oath?

This is the only time I become a spelling Nazi.

:P

of Herman's Hermits fame

He's Henry the Eighth, he is...

for the TUDORS TV show...

I'm 'En-er-ee the Aith Oi am


second verse same as the first

:toast:

n/t

Based on that, I consider it a success.

n/t

I don't understand why people can't get that. He's giving the option out there for people to get the public option because it's the best lead in to get health care reform. I have a professor who said this and keeping in mind he's a major environmentalist, "If you can't win the small wars...you won't be able to succeed with the major wars." We need to get health care reform and the public option is a way in so it's not destroyed and people aren't frightened by GOP fear-mongering.

And of course he has to negotiate with health insurance companies. Are you forgetting his campaign promise? He would negotiate with the major health insurance companies to bring the cost of health insurance down for people who want to keep their health insurance. How do you bloody think that works?

I'm a strong activist...but I protest when the issues are known and don't make sense. When I have an inkling of where the President is going...then I don't have issues to protest. I hate Afghanistan and Iraq...but I'll give him the 2 years I promised him to clean house on there. You want things tomorrow...well you're going to be very disappointed for the immediate future.


I'll let you wallow in it.

They aren't popular, but we still have to deal with them.

"Political reality" is not weather, or earthquake, or gravity. Political reality is made of people. You can push against it, and it will shift, and it will change.

the anger comes from it being excluded. The only way to push things in a progressive direction is to at least include progressive ideas in the conversation. Obama has not done that, hence a lot of people are disappointed, and rightfully so. Taking single payer off the table virtually assures that any compromise will be farther to the right end of the spectrum than the left.


ed for spelling...

but will take you on some pointers







Where did you get this from, Faux Noise, when did he ran Doctors and Nurses out of the negotiating room? are you just making things up which is more like projecting, besides, when negotiating you have to involve those whom you are negotiating against, he has said it over and over about listening to all sides before moving forward and all folks here do is to ignore what the President has said in favor of this faux outrage.

When was the press conference that you got all these information from(?) or is this another manufactured meme?

When did these negotiations takes place that you speak of(?) because I remember vividly the President saying that everything is on the table and it would be transparent. I don't remember anyone talking about negotiations, but what I do know is Senator Baucus has come out in favor of co-op and Ted Kennedy is writing the blue print to the Health Care bill.

speak to his committee, but had a lot of representatives of insurance giants. Doctors and Nurses showed up to demand that single payer be added to the discussion and he had them arrested. It was pretty widely covered in the media.

Smearing the OP as coming from Faux Noise just because you weren't paying attention is really uncalled for.

Yes, the President said that everyone would be at the table, but when Bauccus was put in charge of the discussions the President had no say in who was there and who wasn't. Obama didn't speak at all about out about the arrests or the exclusions so maybe his talk about including everyone was just talk.

Kennedy made an effort to include everyone, but we don't know how much good that will do when Kennedy isn't in much of a position to be as active as he used to be.

I did not smear the OP, I simply stated that the OP is getting their talking point from Faux News.

That said, it seems to me that your argument is Bauccus being in charge means insurance companies
have the upper hand on the table, thats your assumption and I'm saying that is not the case.

Bauccus made a statement about what he thinks should be the way forward with Health Care, and ever
since everyone seems to be using his talking point as a sign that the President has buckle under
pressure from the insurance companies, what a load of baloney.

Yes, Kennedy is not 100% but he is still one of the men in charge of the bill just as Bauccus is,
remember that.

Telling someone that their information comes from Fox is a smear.

This health care plan will be legislation passed by the senate, not dictated by the President, so if Bauccus' committee is writing that legislation that means that he has the most say in what goes up for a vote regardless of what Obama is saying.

Obama can use his muscle in Washington to push through something more inclusive that doesn't give everything to the insurance companies, but to do that he has to rally senators against whatever Bauccus is pushing. He has to get senators to make the changes he wants.

Of course I remember that Kennedy is a big name in Washington. But if Kennedy is spending all his time dealing with his health, I know first hand how little time that leaves you for long, drawn out contested projects. He is going to have little time for all of this, so it is going to be his staff going through the motions for him. Anyone who thinks this is going to be easy, or take little time, or that Kennedy's health won't interfere is living in a dream world.

You seem to be using wishful thinking and the assumption that all is well so that you can bash someone who says otherwise. Perhaps you should take off those rose colored glasses and listen to people who are actually paying attention to what's going on. Other people might not sound as purely optimistic but they at least have facts on their side instead of just faith that Obama is somehow going to magically make it all happen.

are you reading from the same rules (DU) as I am or is this one of your made up crap again?



Yikes! :rofl: this is the very reason I don't get into banter, I just don't have the patience....
I just don't

I did not smear the OP, I simply stated that the OP is getting their talking point from Faux News.

That said, it seems to me that your argument is Bauccus being in charge means insurance companies
have the upper hand on the table, thats your assumption and I'm saying that is not the case.

Bauccus made a statement about what he thinks should be the way forward with Health Care, and ever
since everyone seems to be using his talking point as a sign that the President has buckle under
pressure from the insurance companies, what a load of baloney.

Yes, Kennedy is not 100% but he is still one of the men in charge of the bill just as Bauccus is,
remember that.

n.t.

Until a year is up, of course, then the meme moves faster than the Hopemobile...

RL

...when it comes to some of the issues complained about on this board?

BTW: Obama has established many issues in print but he didn't put a time span on correcting them

:shrug:

n/t

-Unbelievable, can't you give the guy more than 2 years to dig out of the massive hole dug by the b*sh administration?

-It's been less than 3 years! We just went through the midterms, now we can really get going.

-Look 1 term is just not enough time for everything that needs to be done, it's unfair to start judging him right now, he needs to do what it takes to win reelection, after that he will be free from worrying about his next term and can really get started on "x".

-Yeesh, what do you guys expect, he doesn't have the same power now that he's a lame duck, let's get "x" elected and then you can start with the criticism.

Fill in at daily, weekly and monthly intervals as needed.

"Look, 2012 is round the corner, now is not the time to alienate The Center. You want Obama to win re-election, don't you?"

When "no one" addresses the point of the post and instead attacks spelling, punctuation, or makes accusations of using more than 3 paragraphs of a piece, you know it's uncomfortable for them.

They know it when they say it. It's just a dismissive thought stopping phrase they pass around so they don't have to listen.

We're waiting...

Are you familiar with those words?

but that's what it's about. They expected Obama to rule like the
proverbial bull in a china shop.

The overwhelming insecurity of the cheer leading squad when faced with legitimate criticism of the administration is worthy of study. It would be a great thesis for someone working on a doctorate.

Gays push Obama to do what gays think is right, but gays don't ask him to "fix the world".
Civil libertarians push him to end secrety and respect civil liberties, but they don't ask him to "fix the world" in all the aspects of life.
etc. Criticism against the President has been focused on specific issues.

Have you been paying any attention? It has been explained that:

1) The advice to the President from military leaders on the ground, you know, where things are actually happening, was that the original timetable needed to be altered. I suppose you would've appreciated Obama to go all Cowboy Bush and stick to his campaign promise, damn what the generals on the ground are saying about the situation as it exists;

2) We're in Afghanistan because that's where Bin Laden and the Taliban need to be dealt with. Remember he's still out there making threats?

So in short, you can't just drop some airlifters in there tomorrow and pull everyone out. And as long as the troops and the staff who support them are there, they need financial support. What's so damn hard to get about that?

These wars were not of Obama's making, but he's getting lambasted for not snapping his fingers and simply making it go away, as if it merely takes a swipe of his pen to do so.

and the consequence is bankruptcy.

make mistakes in policy and learn from them? Obama is not perfect and I expect that at the end of his administration as with all our other Presidents he will have done things both good and bad. Nobody has stopped you or anyone else from doing what you need to do to complain about what you feel is bad policy. In the end Obama will do what he feels is right in his job as President and you will do the same as a citizen. I am not as certain about anything in my life as you seem to be that every decision that Obama has made so far has been bad. I honestly think you are trying to simplify complicated situations and the reason people say that he has only been in office five months is because they would like to give him some time to work through the difficult situations. I am not sure how you expected him to end two wars in five months without there being consequences that no one would like to see given past history. I am guessing that you have a problem with people pointing out that perhaps patience is needed or maybe saying that what Obama has proposed has been his stance from the beginning. I am sad that anyone who dares point out something good the administration has done, or has another viewpoint other than the negative is called a worshipper, apologist and every other name in the book.

mistakes. But anyway, there's a more general point to make:

If you think Obama cannot be blamed for the the continuation of two imperial wars, for maybe getting ready to start another one in Pakistan, for all but abandoning gay rights, for siding with the corporate-feudal lords on just about every issue, for allowing the atrocities of Gitmo and Bagram and other known or secret prisons not only to go unpunished, but to continue every day...

**If** you think Obama cannot take the blame for any of that, than you'd have to agree to say the same about Bush. After all, he didn't waterboard anyone personally, either. He didn't listen to wiretapped calls himself. He didn't rape and kill any Iraqi girls, as best we know. Mistakes in policy, you know? Can't really blame the guy, he was learning on the job. And so is Obama.