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unblock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 01:02 PM
Original message
THANKS TO GEORGE W. BUSH
THANKS TO GEORGE W. BUSH i owe more in mortgage debt than my house is worth.

THANKS TO GEORGE W. BUSH i'll be working until the day i die

THANKS TO GEORGE W. BUSH mrs. unblock now uses coupons. she hates coupons.

THANKS TO GEORGE W. BUSH we busted out the bread machine we got as a wedding gift and never by store bread. not because homemade is better tasting and better for you, but because it's cheaper.

THANKS TO GEORGE W. BUSH i no longer have breakfast at home. instead i hold out until work, where i can get a granola bar and gatorade from the limited supply of munchies my employer provides.

THANKS TO GEORGE W. BUSH i pack my lunch instead of paying for corporate cafeteria or mcdonalds. you know something's wrong when mickey d's seems expensive!

THANKS TO GEORGE W. BUSH we almost never eat out. when we do, it's with coupons and never at "fancy" restaurants.

THANKS TO GEORGE W. BUSH we never order desert at restaurants.

THANKS TO GEORGE W. BUSH we've cut back even on ordering pizza. when we do, we choose which day based on the best coupons and eat leftovers if the best deal is too much pizza.

THANKS TO GEORGE W. BUSH i hypermile. i get 38 mpg in my nissan sentra when the epa says i should be getting only 26. all by sticking to the most efficient speeds and trying to avoid dead stops in front of red lights.

THANKS TO GEORGE W. BUSH i search for the cheapest gas

THANKS TO GEORGE W. BUSH i keep track of not only which station i get gas from but also which pump. so now i even know which pumps are poorly calibrated and are ripping me off!

THANKS TO GEORGE W. BUSH my retirement funds have all been decimated.

THANKS TO GEORGE W. BUSH i've gone from being an expert in wealth management (ask me about stocks, bonds, mutual funds, options, or futures!) to being an expert in debt management (ask me about credit card interest rates, balance transfers, and fico scores!)

THANKS TO GEORGE W. BUSH i got no bonus last year.

THANKS TO GEORGE W. BUSH i got no raise last year.

THANKS TO GEORGE W. BUSH i'm screwed if i lose my job.

THANKS TO GEORGE W. BUSH we haven't closed a deal for a new client in nearly 2 years (thank goodness for the existing clients!)

THANKS TO GEORGE W. BUSH our vacations involve a car drive, family, their house or ours; rather than hotels and airplanes and people and places we've never seen.

THANKS TO GEORGE W. BUSH we've canceled cable. that's right, no tv. not because we're opposed to tv, but because it's expensive.

THANKS TO GEORGE W. BUSH i no longer pay anyone to mow my lawn. i do this myself.

THANKS TO GEORGE W. BUSH i no longer pay anyone to deal with household pests. we live in the woods and get a lot of critters. i lay traps, check on the bait, dispose of mice, spray where prudent, and kill snakes.

THANKS TO GEORGE W. BUSH i no longer pay anyone to haul my garbage to the dump. the trunk of my car now permanently stinks.

THANKS TO GEORGE W. BUSH we separate recyclables ourselves rather than paying someone to do it. the dump accepts recycling for free but charges for regular refuse.

THANKS TO GEORGE W. BUSH we keep it at 78 degrees in the summer instead of 72, and 66 degrees in the winter instead of 70.

THANKS TO GEORGE W. BUSH i charge up my blackberry and cell phone at work instead of at home.

THANKS TO GEORGE W. BUSH i hibernate my computer whenever i'm not using it.

THANKS TO GEORGE W. BUSH we switched electricity providers to save a few percent.

THANKS TO GEORGE W. BUSH we canceled insurance on a number of items.

THANKS TO GEORGE W. BUSH we canceled the cleaning services, mrs. unblock and i (ok, mostly mrs. unblock) do this ourselves.

THANKS TO GEORGE W. BUSH mrs. unblock canceled her gym membership.

THANKS TO GEORGE W. BUSH we canceled netflix. we now check out dvds from the local library.

THANKS TO GEORGE W. BUSH we got a subscription to the local paper solely for the coupons (after figuring out that the savings more than covered the subscription price).

THANKS TO GEORGE W. BUSH we canceled out credit monitoring service.

THANKS TO GEORGE W. BUSH we no longer shop at one grocery store. we get from bj's what's cheaper there and from the local grocer what's cheaper there.

THANKS TO GEORGE W. BUSH i now have a high deductible insurance plan in the hopes that none of us get seriously ill so the somewhat lower premium yields a bit of savings.

THANKS TO GEORGE W. BUSH i no longer bother trying migraine prophylactic meds, they had minimal effectiveness and it's not worth it to keep trying even though i can get migraines as often as daily for an entire season.

THANKS TO GEORGE W. BUSH i can look forward to a future of higher taxes, higher interest rates, inflation, and fewer government services, not the least of which would be eventual retirement checks.


oh, one more thought. despite all this belt-tightening, i know i'm still far better off than most of this country, because i earn more than roughly 95% of america. that's right, if you knew only my salary, you'd think i was rich. but is this anyone's idea of rich?

THANKS TO GEORGE W. BUSH, a "mere" six-figure income means you have FAR more in common with the poorest americans than the richest americans.




THANKS TO GEORGE W. BUSH!!!!!!!!




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PBS Poll-435 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 01:04 PM
Response to Original message
1. Sorry you had to get rid of your maid.
:cry:
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unblock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 01:32 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. really? that's all you got out of the entire post?
i was never a fan of the cleaning service, it was just once every 2 or 3 weeks, but mrs. unblock insisted once our baby boy came along.

look, so many people had a few expenses that weren't strictly necessary. wants, not needs. supposedly we're a rich nation and i was earning a rich salary and a small amount wants, not needs, didn't seem all that ridiculous.

now even basics are a challenge.



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Raine1967 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #5
12. There is nothing wrong with having a few wants. n/t
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 03:42 PM
Response to Reply #5
26. Some people need to zero in
on inanity.
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SeattleGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #1
15. I used to have someone come and clean my house every other week.
Can't afford it right now, but it certainly wasn't a snobbery thing on my part. It was because I hate cleaning house, and I had the money to have someone come in and do the big thorough cleaning every other week. Plus, I was providing work and a part of income. When I had to terminate the service, I cried, because I knew it was going to affect her life, not having the pay she got from me.

If you like or don't like doing something, and can pay for it, what is the problem? Should all liberals wear ash and sack cloth, and live in dirt huts, just to show they are liberal?

Or can you perhaps see that by being able to employ people to do some things around the house, you are also contributing to the income of another? I really get tired of the attitude some folks on this board have, that somehow money is bad. It's not the money; it's what people do with it.
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unblock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 03:06 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. exactly. some people here actively try to push people away when politics is all about alliances
i've been an ardently liberal democrat all my life and as soon as i start to make a decent salary some people automatically treat me like i'm the enemy. my views never changed; if anything, i became more solid in my defense of policies designed to help those who earn less than i do, as i got a better view of just how it is that income flows to certain people and certain business and NOT so much on the basis of effort or smarts or talent or contribution but more on the basis of connections and image and power plays and so on.

i'll never understand the democrats who think just because i have a larger paycheck that i do, i should(!) vote with those republican scumbags. they're bad for all of us!
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SeattleGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 03:12 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. Having some money for discretionary spending, especially for
things like housecleaning, yardwork, etc., adds to the income of people employed to do those things. And face it, many housecleaners and those who do yardwork don't exactly make tons of money, so by employing them, if you are able, that adds to their income. How this is a bad thing in some people's eyes is just beyond me.

When I had the money to hire the woman who cleaned my house, I wasn't exactly dining at a 5 star restaurant every night during that time.
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Joe the Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #15
25. Exactly, I don't see what the problem is.....
If you don't like cleaning the house or just don't have the time I see no problem in hiring someone who could do it for you.
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SeattleGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 03:43 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. Yep. One question I ask myself (when I DO have discretionary funds)
is "Do I want to spend the money, or do I want to spend the time?" There are some things I would much rather spend the money on (though unfortunately, I don't always have the money), than the time, like house cleaning.

Some of the responses on this thread, as well as other threads I've read over time on DU, are like people taking personal affront to other DUers who might have more money than they do.

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GOTV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-12-09 08:52 AM
Response to Reply #1
59. My maid costs about as much as the cable bill did ....
... when I had cable. Both getting a maid and canceling cable freed up tons of time for more important things, like taking care of my son and staying up to date in my field so I don't get laid off again.

I pay someone to do the things anyone can do to make time for the things only I can do. If I couldn't continue to pay her it would hurt both her and us. As things get tight she'll be one of the last things to go.

It's not some silly extravagance like a kobe beef toilet seat.
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unblock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-12-09 09:06 AM
Response to Reply #59
61. kobe beef toilet seat!
:rofl:
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mnhtnbb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-12-09 12:04 PM
Response to Reply #1
65. And what do you suppose that maid is now doing to meet expenses?
The ability to employ other people gives other people jobs.

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PBS Poll-435 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-12-09 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #65
67. I am sure she is cleaning another McMansion
Edited on Sun Jul-12-09 02:25 PM by PBS Poll-435
:shrug:
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mnhtnbb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-12-09 03:15 PM
Response to Reply #67
70. Not necessarily. A lot of two income households that could support
additional help have had to let that help go because one job is gone or hours are down.
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annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-12-09 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #1
71. sorry you had to fire someone who might have relied on the income...
(I'm sure that's what you meant):sarcasm:
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Raine1967 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 01:09 PM
Response to Original message
2. Why That's Uniquely American!
Edited on Sat Jul-11-09 01:10 PM by Raine1967
According George Bush: "Uniquely American, isn’t it? I mean, that is fantastic that you’re doing that.”


MS. MORNIN: Okay, I'm a divorced, single <57 year-old> mother with three grown, adult children. I have one child, Robbie, who is mentally challenged, and I have two daughters.
THE PRESIDENT: Fantastic. First of all, you've got the hardest job in
America, being a single mom...

MS. MORNIN: I work three jobs and I feel like I contribute.

THE PRESIDENT: You work three jobs?

MS. MORNIN: Three jobs, yes.

THE PRESIDENT: Uniquely American, isn't it? I mean, that is fantastic that
you're doing that. (Applause.) Get any sleep? (Laughter.)

MS. MORNIN: Not much. Not much.

http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=109&STORY=/www/story/02-04-2005/0002951038&EDATE=

I am sorry for what you are going thru.
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Hutzpa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 01:12 PM
Response to Original message
3. And yet
there are some here who are trying to undermine his efforts.....
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uponit7771 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 01:31 PM
Response to Original message
4. 6 figures in Texas's DFW area could get you a lot further than a lot of other cities...
...but I can relate to you on the house etc....that part should piss everyone off.
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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 01:32 PM
Response to Original message
6. Isn't freedom wonderful?
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Jane Austin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 01:34 PM
Response to Original message
7. Your post illustrates that even those who reach "The American Dream"
are affected in dozens of ways daily by the mismanagement of our economy by too many year of Republicans in charge.

It's much worse at the bottom, but none but the very, very wealthy are unaffected.
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Joe the Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 02:08 PM
Response to Original message
8. Worst "president" ever....
Bush had A LOT to do with it but I'd say it's more republican policies in general going all the way back to Reagan.
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Pacifist Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 02:15 PM
Response to Original message
9. I hear you. There are good and bad things in this.
Our household income is also what would be considered "upper middle class" and we've had to go bare bones because of the economy. My husband's company just laid off 10 more people yesterday. Fortunately he wasn't on the list, but he hasn't had a pay raise in awhile and we're expecting to get news of a pay cut any day now. I've had some medical expenses, that despite having pretty decent insurance compared with most people, put a huge dent in our family's finances. It's unexpected to have to be eating PB & J the day before pay day when the paycheck is a pretty decent one relatively speaking. Because we weren't the McMansion types I cannot wrap my brain around this.

On the good side, it has forced us to re-examine our values. We're living greener (that "staycation" instead of being able to take the family further afield and tour some place new). Our new lifestyle is not what I wanted to have to get used to, but it is leading to a smaller environmental footprint for my family. And hopefully we won't give the kids a complex about money and they'll appreciate a non-consumption driven lifestyle where things we do are more valuable than things we have.

I am in no way defending Bush and Republican Economic policy, but in some respects they may have done some of us a few small favors. As a witness to the phenomenal greed and a victim of the repercussions I hope and pray our values change permanently and we don't become embittered and bounce back with a vengeance once we are in a comfortable financial position again. I'm tired and enjoying the respite from acquisition addiction even in the midst of the stress of bill paying.

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HopeOverFear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 02:15 PM
Response to Original message
10. I think some DUers miss GWB
(Not the OP)

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Raine1967 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 02:16 PM
Response to Original message
11. All of those services that you cut...
Such as Laundry, lawncare, housecleaning, garbage pick up, pizza delivery etc...

Everyone one of those cuts you had to made are forcing the people you no longer pay to make cuts as well. I can't understand how people don't see how this is a domino effect.



K&R.
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unblock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. excellent point.
the woman who cleaned our house for a few hours every couple of weeks was in tears when we told her we couldn't afford it any more because she'd already lost more than half her business recently.

but hey, thanks for george w. bush, things are great if you're a big corporation!

oh wait, not really even for them.
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SeattleGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 02:55 PM
Response to Reply #11
16. Exactly what I said in my response (#15)
This whole "money is evil" meme some folks in these parts have pisses me off.

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newinnm Donating Member (323 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 02:24 PM
Response to Original message
14. For fucks sake
You have to be the biggest whiner I have ever seen. The things you gave up simply put you closer to where the rest of us are. For you to compalin about having to look for cheaper gas and using coupons... 99% of everyone I know has been doing this for as long as I have been alive.


-nnnm
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unblock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 03:01 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. you're right, i really should be happier with the last 8 years.
talk about alienating natural allies. you would think you would want people in my income bracket to identify and sympathize and VOTE on your side rather than clinging to the fiction that i'm somehow closer to the rich than i am to the poor simply because of the size of my paycheck.

the whole point is that shrub has been an unmitigated disaster for EVERYONE, we ALL should be opposing him and his lingering policies and the republicans who STILL think he was sent from god and did only good and his only failing was a matter of image.

sorry i had a brief period in my life where my lifestyle was ever so slightly more comfortable than that of yours and your friends, where i could afford a few wants that, believe me, were FAR more prudent and sensible than the things most people in my income bracket pissed money away on.

now that my lifestyle is back to something you can better relate to, why not show some welcoming sympathy instead of offending? or would you prefer that next time YOU complain about republican policies the rest of us just call you a whiner?

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newinnm Donating Member (323 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 06:17 PM
Response to Reply #17
43. Oh give me a break
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Fire1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 04:10 PM
Response to Reply #14
29. i agree with your sentiment but everyone has not been
using coupons (like me) and searching for cheaper gas. By the time you use up gas searching for cheaper gas, you've defeated your purpose. Especially, in my case, where gas is cheaper in the city and it's about 15-20 miles away from my house. Therefore, I got rid of my gas guzzler and got a car with better mileage. Maids and housekeepers are really not worth the money from my experience and my husband has always done our lawn cause he does a better job, imo. Snow shoveling services stopped, cause it hasn't really snowed enough to warrant paying somebody for an entire season. Why have Netflix when Blockbuster is down the street? IOW, SOME things are just common sense. Why be frivolous just BECAUSE YOU CAN? That's irresponsible and stupid from the beginning. Know what I mean?
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DrToast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 03:08 PM
Response to Original message
19. How is it George Bush's fault you owe more than your house is worth?
This should be good.
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unblock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. you don't think the unprecedented decline in real estate had ANYTHING to do with shrub's policies?
the recession and the layoffs and the credit squeeze and the tumbling prices and the foreclosures and the bankruptcies and the offshoring and the increased costs and the decreased benefits and on and on....

you think shrub had NOTHING to do with the real estate crash????
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DrToast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 04:07 PM
Response to Reply #21
28. Are you giving him credit for the unprecedented increases in real estate prices?
When did you buy your house?
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unblock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 04:47 PM
Response to Reply #28
33. bought my house a year and a half ago, lost more than 20% already
the run up in housing prices had many causes, but greenspan keeping interest rates artificially too low too long was probably the biggest. that said, shrub and the republicans did other things to keep things going, including changing tax laws to encourage flipping, continuing to keep interest rates too low too long, ignoring oversight to keep banks from lending imprudently, setting up the economy for a big fall, permitting the offshoring of jobs, and otherwise destroying the social safety net so that when the recession hit it was real big and real bad and led to so many foreclosures and the real estate market crumbled as a result.
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DrToast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 04:56 PM
Response to Reply #33
37. A year and half ago? You bought a year and a half ago and you're surprised you've lost money?!?!
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unblock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 11:10 PM
Response to Reply #37
49. wow, so based on your one graph, EVERYONE who bought a house in the last few years is an idiot?
Edited on Sat Jul-11-09 11:10 PM by unblock
and shrub is completely faultless for that entire run-up and crash????


nevermind the oversimplicity of picking out one graph with 20-20 hindsight and further, applying a single graph for all of america to my particular situation, not even knowing where my house is? real estate is in no small part a local phenomenon, remember.

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Pacifist Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. I'm not an economist, so I don't know the details of this, but...
I can share the experience with my house.

The couple who built it in 1995 paid $136,000.

We bought it for $249,000 in 2002 and financed $204,000.

Comps in our neighborhood got as high as $425,00 at peak around 2004-2006.

We took out a home equity loan in early 2006 for $25,000 to make storm repairs, replace the roof, and do a few other maintenance things. Apparently houses fall apart after ten years if you don't take care of them.

We have paid off a few thousand dollars over the years so we owe around $218,000 give or take.

In October, we contacted our bank to refinance and consolidate the two loans. We've never missed a payment, overpay actually. The interest rate would lower both the term and the monthly payment of the combined mortages so clearly keeping up the payments would not be an issue.

But we couldn't get approved because of the appraisal. Home value too high a percentage of the loan amount.

And it's only getting worse. Comps in our neighborhood as of last month due to the soft market, short sales and foreclosures? $175,000.

Thank heavens we didn't buy when the market in this neighborhood peaked at $425,000! Some of my neighbors are beyond screwed.

So we owe around $218,000 and are being told we could sell for around $175,00.

That would put us in the category of owing more than our house is worth. After putting down a $45,000 downpayment and watching our house value skyrocket in a few years.

Not sure how this makes it GWB's fault, but it definitely happened during his term of office.

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DrToast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 04:13 PM
Response to Reply #22
30. Consider this
A home that was sold for 136K in 1995 and then sold for $249K in 2002 has experienced a 9% annual price increase. Did incomes increase 9% per year in that area? Home prices were unsustainable. The fact that they've come crashing down is a good thing. Sure, it's painful for those underwater, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be happening.
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unblock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 04:42 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. oh please.
ridiculous republican policies have been screwing with the housing markets (as well as other markets) for decades. no one's saying that the pricing decline is irrational GIVEN HOW MUCH THEY'VE SCREWED EVERYTHING UP. of course it's rational for prices to go down when people are losing jobs and can't make their payments. and yes prices went up too much, but THAT shouldn't have happened either.

not to mention that prices coming down too far too fast has knock-on effects that do no one any good, and that's the mess we're in. better programs to protect those struggling, better programs to make the price decline slower, better programs to stimulate the economy, better programs to give tax cuts to those who NEED it, all would have helped.

as it stands, it's not at all clear that the recent collapse in the housing market is entirely legitimate correction. in fact, i would argue we've dropped too much for just that. the driving force is no longer legitimate correction but is now well into the realm of adverse effects of unemployment, income stagnation, imprudent lending, and so on.

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DrToast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #31
34. Most of the policies that lead to the housing bubble were from the Clinton Administration
Edited on Sat Jul-11-09 04:58 PM by DrToast
And we're not even close to returning to a normal housing market yet.



The red dots show where we're headed.
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unblock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 11:11 PM
Response to Reply #34
50. like greenspan, you mean.
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Pacifist Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 04:50 PM
Response to Reply #31
35. Indeed.
Edited on Sat Jul-11-09 04:50 PM by Pacifist Patriot
As I've indicated I'm no economist, but I'd be willing to bet the inflationary home values were due at least in part to the ease of obtaining credit. $425K to $175K in less than 24 months is not an entirely legitimate correction/fluctuation. The first figure is way too high and the second is a bit low. You can't tell me that easy credit on the front end and defaults due to unemployment on the back end are signs of a healthy economy.
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Pacifist Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #30
32. Actually, the area of the country I live in had a lower than average...
housing price. The increase from 136 to 249 was part of a stabilization process that brought us in line with national averages. We knew darned well the skyrocket to $425 a few years later was insane and unsustainable.

I also never made a judgment call over what my home value should be. My next move is to the nursing home. So since I'm not planning on selling it any time soon (knock wood), it really doesn't matter to me in any tangible way right now. Well, other than not being able to refinance to a lower rate and shorter term.

Declining and rising through economic cycles is one thing. Crashing home prices is not a good thing unless you enjoy seeing families suffer I guess.

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DrToast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 04:50 PM
Response to Reply #32
36. Crashing home prices is an inevitability given how fast and high they went up.
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Pacifist Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 04:58 PM
Response to Reply #36
38. Crashing relative to the irrational increase yes.
Plummeting below prices that had been relatively stable? That's an over-correction due to an unhealthy economy.

I think it's fair to say a home purchased for $250K can easily fluctuate $50K on either side within 5-10 years of purchase. Increasing $175K and then plummeting $250K (the purchase price of the house!) to settle at a value $75K below purchase is not indicative of a stable or healthy economy.

I am not quibbling with the fact that housing prices fluctuate. Hopefully everyone knows that is the case.

You'd have to be pretty darned persuasive to convince me what I have experienced doesn't point to economic policies that are stupid, irrational and dangerous. I mentioned above that I have no idea how this would be GWB's fault. I'm just giving an example of someone going upside down on a mortage during his administration's tenure.

I'm more than happy to pin this on all of the morons setting economic policy in our country since the ink was still wet on the U.S. Constitution. Our priorities regarding money are fucked up and long have been. Mine included. I am desperately trying to disentangle myself and my family from the priorities as determined by Madison Ave.
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Fire1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 03:26 PM
Response to Original message
23. ALOT of what you're now doing without many of us never
had. However, even without a six figure income, I'm doing better than you are. Thanks for putting my life into perspective. I feel pretty good!
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unblock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. actually, in some ways yes, shrub screwed people like me more than people far poorer.
if you were too poor to buy a house you never could have lost 20 or 30 percent or more a just a year or few.
if you were too poor to have much in retirement funds you couldn't have the stock market collapse wipe out your savings.

there's small solace i guess in that being poor means there's less to lose.
that said, i have to think i'm in a better position to recover, assuming the economy rebounds ... eventually.

but that still doesn't mean i won't rant and rail against shrub for the rest of my life.
what's really novel for me is that in previous republican administrations, i did better personally, yet continued to argue for democratic policies on for the sake of others. this is the first time i really have felt PERSONALLY screwed over by president. so a rant and rail not just for others, but also for myself.
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invictus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 04:59 PM
Response to Original message
39. unblock, you are a rich, bridge-playing Nutmegger.
Edited on Sat Jul-11-09 05:00 PM by invictus
You probably live in Fairfield county and drive a BMW. I bet you are angry at Bush because you had to buy the 5-series instead of the 7-series you wanted. What a hard life!
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Pacifist Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 05:00 PM
Response to Reply #39
40. Not fond of namecalling, but I have to ask.
What is a nutmegger? I've never heard that particular epithet before.
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invictus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 05:04 PM
Response to Reply #40
41. Nutmegger = someone from Connecticut. It is not an insult, unless you are offended to be from CT. nt
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Pacifist Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 06:06 PM
Response to Reply #41
42. Thanks!
My only experience with nutmegging is having a soccer ball go between your legs without getting a touch on it. I didn't figure it was the same thing.
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unblock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 11:41 PM
Response to Reply #41
55. "it is not an insult, unless ... "???? then why the hell mention it????
seriously, why toss out fairfield county, bridge-playing, and nutmegger/connecticut if it wasn't meant as an insult???

well, i've guess you've got me pegged, or you did a search on my previous posts, because yes, i now live in fairfield county and now that i know what a nutmegger is, i suppose i am one. grew up in columbus, ohio, though, only been here the year and a half. and i even used to play bridge, though that too is something i've given up as we don't need that expense either.

so now i ask you. what is it about these things that makes you side with shrub instead of a staunch democrat simply because i've got a higher salary than i'm guessing you have? shouldn't we all have sympathy for each other and how republicans, our common enemy, have screwed all of us, in the last 8 years in particular?

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unblock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 11:14 PM
Response to Reply #39
51. actually, i drive a 2001 sentra.
what's a nutmegger?
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lib2DaBone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 06:22 PM
Response to Original message
44. GWB is moving to his Million acre ranch in Paraguay...
.. You and I paid for it. GWB gets $150,000 per appearance.... and people PAY IT!

This country is truly "Sick".



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bigwillq Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 06:25 PM
Response to Original message
45. Question, since I got sick of reading
What do you and mrs. unblock do for a living? :shrug:

I say you've lived beyond your means. You can't afford netflix? What the hell have you done with your money? :shrug:

She now has to use coupons? When did coupons become a bad thing? My family has been using them for years. Ain't no shame in it.

This thread is odd.
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PBS Poll-435 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 07:29 PM
Response to Reply #45
46. I just hope that George W. Bush doesn't cause them to be late on their Lexus lease payment
:cry:
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bigwillq Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 07:49 PM
Response to Reply #46
47. I'm really not trying to be a snot but
me and the people I live with make much, much less than what it seems like they make, and we can still afford many of those simple things. Netflix, TV. It just seems like they lived beyond their means.
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unblock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 11:29 PM
Response to Reply #46
54. i would never lease, nor would i ever drive a lexus
leasing is just plain stupid unless you use it for business and can take the deduction, and even then it's probably still stupid.

lexuses are fine cars but the incremental value of the car is SO not worth the extra money.

i drive a 2001 sentra.


glad to hear shrub's been so good to you that you feel no need to have sympathy for anyone who's lost money recently.
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PBS Poll-435 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-12-09 02:29 PM
Response to Reply #54
68. Living in the DFW area, I really haven't seen a lot of the horrors of this economy
I am self-employed and attending college. Every member of my family is working.

Sure, we have had to cut back a little bit, and YES George W. Bush FUCKED us all royally. In fact, it may be so bad that the deficits my be irreversible.


And that is really scary. Especially with the Clinton surpluses just a few years back...
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unblock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 11:26 PM
Response to Reply #45
53. long story short
i'm basically a financial analyst. the company i work for basically helps other companies borrow money by putting up their trade receivables as collateral.

mrs. unblock was a customer service rep for an insurance company before mini-unblock was born, since then it really wasn't worth the cost of full time day care for her to work, so she's been a stay-at-home mom.

we didn't really live beyond our means in the sense that we always had plenty of savings each year. the problem was that we socked it all away in retirement funds, which vanished in the last two years as well.


some of the things we're doing now aren't at all bad things, coupons e.g., it's good to be frugal. i'm not unhappy to be doing them. i'm unhappy that shrub screwed things up so much that i have no choice but to do these things. and i'm royally pissed that the savings it took two decades to amass vanished in two years.
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Pacifist Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-12-09 07:16 AM
Response to Reply #53
56. Our sob story has some similarities.
We had some medical expenses and hurricane repairs that impacted our family's financial situation, but the biggest hit was a loss in investment income. We had planned carefully to allow me to be a stay-at-home mom when our second child was born. That income stream dried up in the global economic crisis. We didn't live beyond our means, but we definitely took advantage of being in a particular income bracket while maintaining a savings account and retirement planning (knock wood the retirement plan is still relatively decent, but like everything else vulnerable). We also didn't drive luxury cars unless you consider a PT Cruiser equivalent to a Lexus. We didn't buy name brand clothes unless we happened to be near an outlet mall. We didn't dine out at four star restaurants, but date night wasn't McDonald's either.

What we had took fifteen years to amass. We went from comfortable (but not rich) to major belt tightening to living pay check to pay check in 18 months. I don't expect anyone to cry for me. My family is still fortunate. My husband's boss called yesterday to talk to him about the layoffs on Friday assuring him that his job was safe...well, until the company closes it's doors anyway. Nothing in life is guaranteed.

However, it is a powerful lesson that even those who worked hard to attain the American Dream (NOT to be confused with the twisted nightmare version of Greed and Decadence), can have the dream come crashing down around their ears.
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unblock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-12-09 08:03 AM
Response to Reply #56
57. it is a real pisser
after all the discussions a couple with income has about saving for later vs. spending now and to the extent that savings wins, which one would think to be the prudent choice, if it's all wiped out then you got nothing when you could have spent it frivolously and at least enjoyed it at the time.

and then to come to du and find that some people have no sympathy simply because they couldn't possibly relate to anyone having a larger income, even if they're victims for shrub the same way and politically on the same side.
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Pacifist Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-12-09 08:36 AM
Response to Reply #57
58. I am disappointed how many people assume...
(not just DU, but in many different types of venues), that if you have a decent salary you must be living above your means. I've never understood why we are assumed to have bought a bigger house than we need, bought a luxury automobile instead of a servicable family vehicle, have all the latest gadgets, and paid full retail for everything. I bought clothes at Target, and yes Good Will too, when we were at the peak of our financial comfort. I bought my iPod used on eBay for a fraction of what I would have paid for it in a store. Some of us were prudent and still saw our savings vanish. I'm not looking for sympathy, but I do think it should be noted that people across the economic spectrum were affected. I cannot even fathom what families with less means are enduring. It's heartbreaking!
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bigwillq Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-12-09 02:59 PM
Response to Reply #53
69. Thanks for getting back to me.
If I sounded like a snot, sorry, that wasn't my intent. I just needed a few questions answered, and you did that. :) Good Luck to you and your family. :hi:
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 07:51 PM
Response to Original message
48. THANKS TO GEORGE W. BUSH for Katrina-ing the whole fucking country.
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ivanincali Donating Member (9 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 11:17 PM
Response to Original message
52. George W. Bush...
..should be someone's prison bitch!! :mad:
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bigwillq Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-12-09 03:58 PM
Response to Reply #52
73. Hello.
Welcome to DU! :hi:
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santamargarita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-12-09 09:00 AM
Response to Original message
60. And, this shitbag has family ties to Hitler and was never elected!
:argh:
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sce56 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-12-09 09:32 AM
Response to Original message
62. Well some things you are now doing would be good regardless
Saving electricity is important for all of us! My recent bill is $28.63! And that is in a three bedroom Apt.

Making your own bread is great When I was Mr Mom, raising two toddlers from diapers to grade school, I did that all of the time it tastes so much better fresh and leaves a mouth watering scent in the air.

Use your bread machine for the pizza also use four cups bread flour about 1 1/3 cups water a teaspoon salt 1 1/4 teaspoon yeast and 2 tablespoons Olive Oil for the dough then regular marinara sauce plus cheese and all other things great fresh and you can ensure you are using the best ingredients if you shop carefully to get organic!

Use the Pizza dough recipe for Italian bread also!
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asteroid2003QQ47 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-12-09 11:14 AM
Response to Original message
63. "THANKS TO GEORGE W. BUSH" a reconstituted polarized electorate...
continues to focus their blame/praise on a titular figurehead thus preserving the status quo!
Michelle understands how the system works, she is spot on in my opinion!

Until YOU (et al) understand, there is NO reason for hope, thank you George W. Bush!
---------------------------------------------------


“There is still a lot of hard work that we as a country need to do. They can’t look to any one individual, whether it’s Barack or it’s the next new hope that’s going to appear to be that savior. And I would just hate for people to sort of see this potential and think: Oh, now I can rest easy because Barack Obama is going to fix things. It doesn’t work that way.”
--Michelle Obama
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-12-09 11:25 AM
Response to Original message
64. and ultimately the worst of it is we wasted 8 years delaying reduction CO2 emissions
meaning that all of these things could be double for your childrend and triple for your grandchildren.
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-12-09 12:54 PM
Response to Original message
66. Why are you blaming Bush?
Those things were caused by President Obama. :sarcasm:
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WorseBeforeBetter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-12-09 03:54 PM
Response to Original message
72. You claim to be "an expert at wealth management"...
but just figured out that coupon savings more than cover the subscription price of your local newspaper? I bet you purchased your home at peak, eh?

Comparing you and your family, with a six-figure income, to a family living at the poverty level is disgusting. As stated above, something is very "off" with this post.
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invictus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-13-09 11:50 AM
Response to Original message
74. "THANKS TO GEORGE W. BUSH we canceled netflix."
LOL! No offense. It's just funny.
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invictus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-13-09 11:57 AM
Response to Original message
75. RE: "THANKS TO GEORGE W. BUSH we canceled insurance on a number of items."
What else were you insuring besides the usual things?

1) Car
2) Health
3) Property
4) Life

You could cancel #4 but not the others.

You must have been insuring:
1) boat
2) PWC
3) Jewelry
4) Works of art
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Incitatus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-13-09 12:08 PM
Response to Original message
76. Just like the bread you mentioned, homemade pizza is much better and cheaper.
Edited on Mon Jul-13-09 12:09 PM by Incitatus
Publix has balls of pizza dough for about $2 (you can probably find a recipe and make it for less). A can of pizza sauce that can do 2 pizzas is about $1. Even after cheese and whatever toppings you're still paying less.
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