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Question about talking back to an officer and the charge of "disorderly conduct"

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brentspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 12:31 AM
Original message
Question about talking back to an officer and the charge of "disorderly conduct"
Edited on Sat Jul-25-09 12:36 AM by brentspeak
My understanding is that a civilian, as long as they are complying with an officer's requests, cannot be arrested simply for talking/giving-the-cop-a-piece-of-your-mind/etc. This http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080320125624AAmtHNa">Yahoo Answers thread on the topic has people, ex-cops included, providing differing opinions on the matter.

An oddball friend of mine insists that even verbal abuse of an officer isn't grounds for Disorderly Conduct. But I'm not so sure that referring to a cop as, say, "Officer Pig" (his hypothetical example), even in the most sweet and polite manner imaginable ("I will be most happy to comply, Officer Pig"), won't get the offending person immediately placed into handcuffs.
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Davis_X_Machina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 12:44 AM
Response to Original message
1. Your oddball friend is not an oddball, Not in the 9th Federal Circuit....
Edited on Sat Jul-25-09 01:02 AM by Davis_X_Machina
...not if you don't want 42 USC 1983 on your ass:

904 F.2d 1372, Duran v. Douglas City, 1990, Justice Kosinzki for the majority:

"<T>he First Amendment protects a significant amount of verbal criticism and challenge directed at police officers." Hill, 482 U.S. at 461, 107 S.Ct. at 2509. The freedom of individuals to oppose or challenge police action verbally without thereby risking arrest is one important characteristic by which we distinguish ourselves from a police state. Id. at 462-63, 107 S.Ct. at 2510. Thus, while police, no less than anyone else, may resent having obscene words and gestures directed at them, they may not exercise the awesome power at their disposal to punish individuals for conduct that is not merely lawful, but protected by the First Amendment.

Inarticulate and crude as Duran's conduct may have been*, it represented an expression of disapproval toward a police officer with whom he had just had a run-in. As such, it fell squarely within the protective umbrella of the First Amendment and any action to punish or deter such speech--such as stopping or hassling the speaker--is categorically prohibited by the Constitution.

...

No less well established is the principle that government officials in general, and police officers in particular, may not exercise their authority for personal motives, particularly in response to real or perceived slights to their dignity. Surely anyone who takes an oath of office knows--or should know--that much.


Emphasis mine...

*Swearing - in two languages -- giving the officer the finger, etc....
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stray cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 07:43 AM
Response to Original message
2. I think you are right - meaning a skin head can also legally call a black officer racial slurs
Edited on Sat Jul-25-09 07:44 AM by stray cat
and no charges should be brought -
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Bluenorthwest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 11:49 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. An arrested skinhead might just be adding fodder to evidence
of his crime being motivated by hate. Nothing in the OP said a thing about racial slurs, by the way, that is your hyperbolic attempt to make false analogies.
Racial slurs are often evidence in legal cases against skinheads. As they are very often arrested for hate based crimes. The racial slurs they use in commission of that crime are part of what makes it a hate crime, when it is. If they continue to use slurs against arresting officers, that evidence is gravy on the taters. Proof of the pudding, and the pudding is a crime.
So maybe your analogy is not a good one. Try again!
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brentspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 12:05 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. self/del
Edited on Sat Jul-25-09 12:09 PM by brentspeak
sorry, I responded to the wrong post
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mkultra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 11:10 AM
Response to Original message
3. it depends on the encounter
If you walk up to a cop in an unsolicited manner and slander him to his face, i can be interpreted as a threat of physical harm and the officer is justified in attempting an arrest.


If you are in your home or approached by an officer, they are supposed to be trained to deal with agitated and hostile people on a daily basis. verbal abuse in those cases is not a crime.
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moobu2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 11:24 AM
Response to Original message
4. It depends on the police officer
When I was 17y/o, I was stopped by a traffic cop late at night. I was very verbally abusive to the officer, it was crazy really. After all these years I still can not believe how I acted. I used vulgar language, told him he was stupid and couldn’t spell when he misspelled my name and asked him if he wanted me to write the ticket out for him. I was awful. He just let me go and didn’t even acknowledge what I was doing.

I’ve also been unfairly treated by police when I was very polite and co-operative.

The police can find some reason to give you a hard time if they want, it just depends on the officer.
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killbotfactory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 11:56 AM
Response to Original message
6. They are not supposed to arrest you for requesting a badge number or being upset with them
But they can, and do, get away with doing so all the time, because so many people see nothing wrong with it and put police in a pedestal and expect everybody to worship them.
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 12:08 PM
Response to Original message
8. A friend of mine who is a vet says that disorderly conduct is a military offense
and not a civilian one. Civilians are charged with disturbing the peace.
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KansasVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 12:42 PM
Response to Original message
9. 90% of disorcdery conduct charges are dropped. Most of them are not legit. Just cops being assholes!
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