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To all who refuse to confront the reality of this health care 'reform': READ THIS -

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debbierlus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 06:33 PM
Original message
To all who refuse to confront the reality of this health care 'reform': READ THIS -
The health insurance companies, the lobbyists, the drug companies are JOYFUL about this bill. When the health insurance lobbyists are trying to force a bill through Congress, it is not because they are interested in public health. Read the article to the end and you will find a quote about the FANTASTIC position the health insurance companies are in. Also note the part about insurers playing larger role in Medicare & Children's Health Programs. My aunt, a thyroid cancer patient, recently spent a week on the phone with one of these middle men pleading to be covered for her second chemotherapy treatment. She was delayed a few crucial weeks because of this new insurer involvement.

Mandatory Health Insurance. It is the health insurance companies wet dream. The fact that this 'liberal' blog rates down just about every post that casts serious concern over this health care plan shows how successful their campaign has been. Obama becomes the spokesman for the expansion of a broken, corrupt, unethical system, a watered down 'public option' is given to placate the 'base', and the critics are silenced by those who don't want a negative word against their elected 'hero'. DU, you better wake up fast. The refusal by many to even ALLOW any real discussion about the health care reform is shameful.

Unrecommend all you want. But, remember, when corporations dictate the debate & write the legislation, intelligent people take notice. Here's the article....

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090725/ap_on_bi_ge/us_heal...

WASHINGTON – A strong force, perhaps as powerful in Congress as President Barack Obama, is keeping the drive for health care going even as lawmakers seem hopelessly at odds.

Lobbyists.

The drug industry, the American Medical Association, hospital groups and the insurance lobby are all saying Congress must make major changes this year. Television ads paid for by drug companies and insurers continued to emphasize the benefits of a health care overhaul — not the groups' objections to some of the proposals.

"My gut is telling me that something major can pass because all the people who could kill it are still at the table," said Ken Thorpe, chairman of health policy at Emory University in Atlanta. "Everybody has issues with bits and pieces of it, but all these groups want to get something done this year." As a senior official at the Health and Human Services department in the 1990s, Thorpe was deeply involved in the Clinton administration's failed effort.

President Barack Obama on Saturday continued his full-court press to pass health care reform legislation. In his weekly Internet and radio address, Obama cited a new White House study indicating that small businesses pay far more per employee for health insurance than big companies — a disparity he says is "unsustainable — it's unacceptable."

"And it's going to change when I sign health insurance reform into law," Obama said, adding that he has "a sense of urgency about moving this process forward."

This time, the health care industry groups see a strategic opportunity. As lawmakers squabble, the groups are focused on how to come out ahead in the end game.

"We're still optimistic that we can get health care reform accomplished," said Robert Zirkelbach, spokesman for America's Health Insurance Plans, the main insurance industry trade group. "There is strong support from policymakers and from across the health care sector. "

It's all got to do with shifts in the economy. Even before the recession hit, employer-sponsored health coverage had been steadily shrinking, and many people couldn't afford the premiums for individual policies. Meanwhile, government programs have been expanding — and they've gotten increasingly friendly to private insurance companies. Insurers now play major roles as middlemen in Medicare, Medicaid and the children's insurance program.

And if the government requires everybody to get coverage — just what the overhaul legislation calls for — it could guarantee a steady stream of customers subsidized by taxpayers not only for insurers, but for all medical providers.

What I'm concerned about is the damage that's being done right now to the health of our families, the success of our businesses, and the long-term fiscal stability of our government," Obama said in his address.

Obama criticized what he said were tactics by opponents to block health care overhaul "as a way to inflict political damage on my administration. I'll leave it to them to explain that to the American people."

"Today, after a lot of hard work in Congress, we are closer than ever before to finally passing reform that will reduce costs, expand coverage and provide more choices for our families and businesses," Obama said.

The industry groups have invested heavily to make sure their views get taken into account. The health care sector gave $167 million in campaign contributions to congressional candidates in the 2008 election cycle, according to the watchdog group OpenSecrets.org. Health care companies poured $484 million into lobbying efforts in 2008, and are on pace to exceed that this year.

Separately, the drug companies have offered up $80 billion over 10 years to reduce prescription costs of seniors if a deal goes through, while major hospital groups agreed to a $155-billion reduction in Medicare and Medicaid payments to free up funds that would help subsidize coverage for the uninsured.

The political infighting on Capitol Hill has strengthened the hand of the health care groups, since liberals have been thwarted so far in their attempts to win speedy passage of the legislation through the House and Senate.

One of the liberals' main objectives is to include a strong government-sponsored insurance plan in the legislation, to compete against private insurance. Stopping or weakening the government plan is a top priority for the insurance industry. Other health care interest groups are also leery because the public plan could put a dent in their budgets. The House version, modeled on Medicare, would pay doctors and hospitals less than private insurance.

All eyes are now on Senate Finance Committee Chairman Max Baucus, D-Mont., who has never been friendly to the idea of a government-sponsored insurance plan. Baucus is trying to broker a bipartisan deal with a handful of Republican colleagues.

It's not clear if Baucus will succeed, but his group is looking at creating nonprofit co-ops that would lack Medicare's power to dictate payment levels and tell providers to take it or leave it. Instead, the co-ops would have to negotiate payment rates with hospitals, doctors and drug makers — just like private insurance plans do.

"We are hopeful at the end of the day a bipartisan plan will emerge that benefits both patients and the U.S. economy," said Ken Johnson, senior vice president of the Pharmaceutical Research and Manufacturers of America, the drug industry lobby.

Obama has endorsed the notion of a strong public plan, the kind liberals want to see. But if Baucus gets a bipartisan deal, the president may have to swallow hard and embrace it — or accept defeat of his top domestic priority.

"There is a way out of it — a bipartisan compromise_ but so far the liberals have found that to be anathema," said Robert Laszewski, a health care industry consultant.

Laszewski is pessimistic about the prospects for overhaul legislation this year. But he thinks insurers in particular look like they're in a win-win situation.

"The health insurance industry is in a fantastic position," he said. Democratic liberals overreached and can't move a bill over the objections of their moderate and conservative colleagues.

"Democrats can't blame the industry if this goes down," Laszewski added. "So the health insurance industry is happy to let this thing take its course."

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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 06:36 PM
Response to Original message
1. Real discussion thread that you abandoned
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debbierlus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 06:40 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. I didn't abandon it. There was no discussion.

I just put forth a series of logical questions that I believe should be part of dialogue. There was little response. Thanks for putting it up again.

I have no idea why anyone would unrecommed that particular post given that it only asks questions about what health reform would look like.

But, it stands at - O
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 06:51 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. I suspect people who don't like unrecommend
or people who get tired of answering questions only to have them posted again an hour later.

Inaction is not an option. We are not going to get single payer. Some compilation of these bills is what we're going to get. If you're interested in fighting for some particular aspect of the bill, fine. If you just want to sabatoge them, you're not going to get some opposition.
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debbierlus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 10:56 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. The health insurance companies are sabatoging health reform


So, the health insurance companies should be allowed to dictate the health care debate and write the legislation while we take what we can get?

We should just allow the continued profiteering off human illness and suffering with millions not covered, and millions more lack adequate coverage under the corporate insurance mandatory health insurance plans?

I am so SICK of the 'we can't get it' argument. The very reason that we can not get true reform is the acquiesence to the corporate powers that be. Most people won't even make a damn phone call or write a simple letter. People truly do get the government they deserve, and if Americans can allow these corrupt leeches to write our health reform while not even demanding a basic discussion of issues, we will be trapped in this hellish insurance scam for the next 20 years. This is a take to the streets issue. A life and death issue.

So, I will keep posting to try to prompt real dialogue and urgency for action.





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inna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-26-09 06:39 AM
Response to Reply #8
15. good points, i agree with you completely!
some interesting related points from a recent Norman Solomon article: http://www.truthout.org/072309R

re. "the 'we can't get it' argument"... (actually, this part gives me some hope...) --


In the mid-1960's, Medicare became law with the stroke of a presidential pen. Lyndon Johnson was able to sign the measure despite a huge onslaught of opposition from right-wing politicians, their corporate backers and professional groups like the American Medical Association.
These days, the AMA may be somewhat more circumspect in its continuing opposition to progressive measures, but the overall balance of political power remains heavily tilted against health care for all.


and re. "the acquiesence to the corporate powers that be" and "demanding a basic discussion of issues" --


The variety of health care delivery systems abroad, in industrialized countries, spans a common assumption - health care as a human right - an assumption that doesn't cut the mass-media mustard in the United States. "What's common to all these systems," Lieberman points out, "is that everyone is entitled to health care and pays taxes to support the system, and medical costs are controlled by limits on spending. The specter of a system that takes a significant bite out of stakeholder profits in the US is the real reason the debate is so restricted." As Trudy Lieberman puts it, "Reform efforts have danced around this impasse for decades."
...
The press "has mostly passed along the pronouncements of politicians and the major stakeholders who have the most to lose from wholesale reform," Lieberman writes. "By not challenging the status quo, the press has so far foreclosed a vibrant discussion of the full range of options, and also has not dug deeply into the few that are being discussed, thereby leaving citizens largely uninformed about an issue that will affect us all."
...
That helps to explain why so much media coverage of health care reform proposals is apt to be so baffling to most readers, listeners and viewers. When the big elephant (or, if you will, donkey) in the national newsroom is dependent on the insurance, pharmaceutical and hospital industries for financing, there's a distinct shortage of candor about the consequences of such ongoing intrusions. Newsgathering, media debate - and, of course, health care - suffer the consequences.



the bottomline - 1) we have by far the best congress and the M$M that money can buy, and their objective is serving their corporate masters, NOT the well-being of the American people, and

2) we need an FDR or MLK (or at least a Lyndon Johnson) right now, and it remains to be seen whether or not Obama will be up to task.

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debbierlus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-26-09 03:16 PM
Response to Reply #15
19. We do indeed need radical change at this moment in history

Unfortunately, this White House seems to be filled with corporate advisors rather then true public reform advocates.

You can judge a lot by the company a person (or President) keeps...

Just look at Geithner & Paulson and the bank bailout....

I think that Obama has pretty much shown where he stands.
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earth mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 07:13 PM
Response to Original message
4. Thanks for not giving up.
:thumbsup:
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debbierlus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 10:57 PM
Response to Reply #4
9. This fight has just begun.
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 07:32 PM
Response to Original message
5. K&R
Edited on Sat Jul-25-09 07:35 PM by bvar22
The 72% of Americans who support a Public Option are going to be very disappointed when they find out THIS option isn't so public.

Most Americans who already have Employer Based Insurance (150 Million +) will be Locked Out of the Public Option, even if the Public Option is cheaper and offers better benefits. They will be forced to keep their more expensive private insurance. THAT will make some heads explode.


"Under the main health bills being debated in Congress, many people with job-based insurance could find it difficult to impossible to switch to health plans on a new insurance exchange, even if the plans there were cheaper or offered better coverage. The restrictions extend to any government-run plan, which would be offered on the exchange.

http://www.newjerseynewsroom.com/healthquest/for-many-workers-insurance-choices-may-be-limited-after-health-care-overhaul




According to the CBO who scored HR3200 last week, LESS than 10 Million People will be enrolled in the Public Option by 2019.....That is not a very "Public" Option.

The great majority of Americans who support the Public Option are under the impression that they will be able to choose a Publicly Owned/Government Administered Health Insurance Plan ("like Medicare").

Boy, are THEY going to be PISSED!
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dgibby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 07:52 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. I've always said there'd be no way in hell these corporate shills
we call our elected representatives would ever pass a public option that would actually compete with the Health Care Insurance Industry.:mad: :puke:
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subterranean Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 11:52 PM
Response to Reply #5
10. Also, locking most people out of the "public" plan...
will ensure that it never becomes big enough to pose any threat to the profits of the insurance and pharmaceutical industries.
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debbierlus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-26-09 12:10 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. Exactly. Let them eat cake.


Sure. Here is a slice of a public option.

Extremely limited enrollment, and prices kept elevated so as to not compete with Big Corporate Insurance companies.

But, the public option will be there. You betcha. Smoke & mirrors.

The same broken & financially insolvent system that passed in MA. And, my sister's family pays 1,200 dollars a month for a 'affordable' group pool family insurance plan.

WAKE UP NOW
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inna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-26-09 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #5
21. please see this post -
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=8553784&mesg_id=8554047


i actually borrowed some of your points, and i learned a lot about this issue from your posts, i'm very grateful to you for that!
:pals: :yourock:


keep posting! hopefully more people will see it and learn (and/or wake up); some of this stuff is really eye-opening. :hi:
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Orwellian_Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 09:32 PM
Response to Original message
7. K&R
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inna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-26-09 06:06 AM
Response to Original message
12. rec'd. unfortunately, most people are completely "naive"/misinformed/clueless about all this.
how we allow the corporate mafia to get away with this is completely beyond me.

the present system is absurdly grotesque and immoral; it feels like some sort of almost surreal neo-feudalism with the majority of the population being some sort of post-industrial wage slaves, completely oblivious and brainwashed into serfdom.

how the American people put up with this crap and naively think that we live in a democracy (while believing the "evils of socialism" boogieman) is unfathomable; the only explanation that i can think of is constant brainwashing by corporate propaganda.


:banghead:

... in other news... i couldn't believe it when i first saw this, but...

The federal government has devoted $4.7 trillion to help the financial sector through its crisis, a watchdog report said Monday.

Under the worst of circumstances, the report said, the government's maximum exposure could total nearly $24 trillion, or $80,000 for every American.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32010841/ns/business-us_business


:grr:


(pitchforks, anyone?... :( :sigh: )
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cleveramerican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-26-09 06:11 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. Thankfully this version is all but dead
thank you blue dogs.
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inna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-26-09 07:11 AM
Response to Reply #13
16. are you serious?? bue dogs of all people, eh? somehow i missed that entire debate,
but maybe the blue dogs are not entirely worthless and evil, after all. :shrug:

who'd ever think? i thought they normally oppose spending for social, progressive causes only, but (just like the republicans)don't have a slightest problem giving away billions/trillions to the corporations. didn't they enthusiastically vote for Bush's trillions for the war and taxcuts for the rich?


anyway, $4.7 trillion (let alone $23.7 trillion) is an absolutely insane amount of money. i'd lose all faith in/hope for Obama if he supported that monstrosity. it's just OBSCENE to whine about spending and take away the last dollars and the remnants of social safety from the old and the poor (for example, $500 billion cuts to Medicare) while handing out trillions to Wall Street. :banghead:
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debbierlus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-26-09 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. Blue Dogs are demanding no public option and no coverage of abortion

And, what they are doing to Medicare is fucking criminal!

The corporations have planted the illusion of change with their new corporate frontman. And, many on DU just play right into their hands.

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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-26-09 06:14 AM
Response to Original message
14. Dear Debbie, please answer this: If the insurance companies, big pharma
etc, are so joyful about the dem healthcare reform bill, how come they're fighting tooth and nail against it and spending millions and millions to defeat it?
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debbierlus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-26-09 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. They aren't fighting tooth and nail against the reform - ONLY THE PUBLIC OPTION

They have spent millions to control the debate, they bought the politicians so they wouldn't even allow a DEBATE about single payer, and they have been fighting a REAL public option that would provide a true option outside the private insurance industry. The public option is being seriously diluted, so that it will provide no real competition to the industry.

The health insurance companies know that the existing system can not be maintained. Before the American people unite behind a true system of reform, they have opted to find a way to keep the status quo through mandatory health insurance. Every American will now have to purchase their product or be taxed as a penalty. Not, a bad deal, eh?

Here's what else they get out of it -

They write the legislation

They dictate the terms of the reform (a diluted and toothless single payer reform is being included solely to silence Americans who believe a public option will bring a alternative to the private insurance system - a true public option could do precisely that - but the number people being allowed to enroll, the higher costs associated with restricted enrollement, this will prevent the public option from working as people believe it will...)

They maintain a for profit system where they dictate the terms of our health insurance coverage.

They win.

This is really not that complicated. However, the Obama administration and the media have succeeded in preventing any real dialogue about health reform and we are reduced to discussing the merits of their 'talking points' rather then having any real discussion about creating a real solution. Why so many on DU go along with this horrid piece of legislation in lockstep is truly puzzling?
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debbierlus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-26-09 03:28 PM
Response to Original message
20. And to all the unrecommenders - at least put forth a cohesive argument

Against the post....

I see the post continue to lose recommendations, however, I see very little dialogue about the content of the post from those whom disagree with it.

Lobbyists dictating the health care legislation and the implications for our health system's future deserve a unrecommend from you.

Or, is it the anti-Obama thing? Anything that doesn't reflect well on the President gets rated down, even if it is TRUE.

Wow, I thought such behavior was reserved for the type of people who supported George W Bush. Apparently not.

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paulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-26-09 03:43 PM
Response to Original message
22. with single payer advocates not even allowed in the debate
and the public option under attack, will this even be a "political" victory for Obama if he manages to get this through?

If, two or three years down the road, this whole mess blows up - if costs don't come down, if our healthcare system doesn't improve despite "reform", what position will Obama and the Democratic Party be in then?

Obama is in real danger of backing himself into a corner - as per the article -

"Obama has endorsed the notion of a strong public plan, the kind liberals want to see. But if Baucus gets a bipartisan deal, the president may have to swallow hard and embrace it — or accept defeat of his top domestic priority."

Will Obama have the courage to say "no"?
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nightrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-26-09 05:14 PM
Response to Original message
23. Kick and Rec. Thanks for posting it!
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