Free School for Soldiers

http://thepage.time.com/2009/08/02/free-school-for-soldiers/

Obama will mark the implementation of the Post-9/11 GI Bill with remarks at George Mason University Monday in Fairfax, Virginia.

The bill allows eligible veterans, service members to go to college for free at an in-state public university or college.


Post-9/11 GI Bill era begins
http://www.armytimes.com/news/2009/08/military_gibill_launch_080109army/

Events to launch the program, with ceremonial first checks being handed out to veterans, are planned around the U.S. on Monday, with the biggest planned at George Mason University in Fairfax, Va.

President Barack Obama, Veterans Affairs Secretary Eric Shinseki and the chief congressional sponsor of the new GI Bill, Sen. Jim Webb, D-Va., will attend a rally to honor the incoming class of veterans who will benefit from the program.

The event also will be a chance for Webb to receive accolades for his feat as a freshman senator in leading the charge for the biggest increase in veterans’ education benefits since the original World War II GI Bill of Rights — and, with the transfer rights for career service members, also the biggest retention benefit since the dawn of the all-volunteer force 36 years ago.

Both fought hard for this bill!

the infrastructure to our country! This is the way it should be.

Try and go to college on your own and be prepared to cough up up a lot of money. I am not a big fan of this. First we train them, feed them, house them, give them medical and now we have pay for their college. Must be nice.

Whats the problem with that? They are the best Citizens. They are the cream of the crop. They deserve the best health care, free housing, and free college for their paid service. You deserve to labor while people profit grossly from your work, and pay dearly for healthcare, housing and education (so that you may better serve them).

"War alone brings up to its highest tension all human energy and puts the stamp of nobility upon the peoples who have courage to meet it. All other trials are substitutes, which never really put men into the position where they have to make the great decision -- the alternative of life or death" - B.M. 1932

and that they are the cream of the crop. That is total bull that has been blasted on us by and in the media.


If they were the cream of the crop:

They would all have graduated at the top of their class in high school.
They would all have been top athletes in high school. (We don't see Army, Navy, Air Force football teams win many games)
They would all have clean police records.
They would all have never tried drugs.
They all would have enlisted because they wanted to serve their country.

Since that is not true they are not the cream of the crop.


I don't believe they should get all of their college education for free. There should be eligibility requirements at different levels which earns them scholarships.

If they had been drafted into the service instead of enlisted before the draft was eliminated. I would be more inclined to support more educational resources. Because they were forced into the military instead of voluntarily joining.

I kind of imagined it being read in the voice of Rip Torn ala "Men in Black."

I was a soldier, and if there's one thing we can say for sure about soldiers it's that they are largely uneducated people who have no understanding of history, politics, the constitution, and the true nature of the role they play enforcing the wants of some pretty unsavory types.

But they give of themselves, and there's a good chance we will make them into good citizens for the long haul - guys like Tom Harkin, Jim Webb and John Kerry. Educating them in college helps. It provides them with the real knowledge they need to be warriors for real democratic ideals.

Being a solider doesn't make anyone a better person than the next guy.

of history, politics, the constitution describes a very sizable portion of the American population. Why would we expect the people that make up our armed services to be at wide variation from the population that they are recruited from.

If you think they're as intelligent and educated as the average American, you need to do a little reading on the topic. For the past 4 years, the military recruiters have been scraping the bottom of the barrel for recruits, and that's mainly what they've gotten.

in Vietnam. Should be of no great surprise to anyone. JMO.

The draft compelled many Americans to join the military. By joining, young men got to choose the branch of the military. Air Force was first choice. Navy was second. So both of those were packed with college students, college grads, and professionals.

The Marines have consistently gotten the least educated recruits, and that continues.

The draft resulted in a military with more educated citizens. The all volunteer army has been underwhelming, and much more easily led to excessive behaviors that are offensive to our nation's ideals. That's one major reason abuse of prisoners occurred in recent years.

Ever hear of project 100,000 launched by McNamara & Johnson in the mid to late 60s. That was a massive intake of mental cat 3 & 4 recruits. Each service had to take a quota. In addition, the recruiters were getting waivers for everything short of homicide and homosexuality. We were getting men in the early 70s that had waivers for armed robbery, assault, drugs. This was in the Navy. It was the draftee army that committed Me Lai, You are very naive if you believe we did not abuse the hell out of some VC and ANV captures. Never heard of the interrogating Iraqis from a helicopter, but that was certainly done in Vietnam.

And My Lai was the responsibility of a West Point Grad, so once again, you don't know what you're talking about.

Again, you fail.

Do you even know who was tried for My Lai?

I'll give you a hint. Calley and Medina, both officers. Medina was Calley's superior, and naturally he got away with murder by claiming he didn't know. The military wanted one goat, and didn't want a career officer to take the fall, so they nailed Calley and let Medina walk.

killings. As far as the ground pounders are concerned, half of them refused the unlawful orders to kill those old men, women and children. The other half were just following orders.

And Calley got HIS orders from brass that more than likely went to the Point, also.....

They all went on to bigger and better lives in the Army, being all they could be.

Most people have no idea how the Army is about its West Point Grads and its career officers versus reservists and non career officers. First, let enlisted men take the fall, if possible. Then, sacrifice one of the non career officers, if a sacrifice is needed further.

I make no excuses for Calley, but he was a pawn, and Medina knew exactly what was going on. Body count, body counts, body counts. If they were killed, they were VC. How do you know they're VC? Well, they're dead, aren't they?

I think the culture totally failed them and that is why they made the choice to join the armed forces in the first place. Certainly not every modern soldier is a dupe of the recent administration. Many are there to protect those they serve with, but many are a product of lies and I for one am glad they have a chance now to raise better families and be better people instead of just lingering with injuries mental and physical. It's also solid proof that given the opportunity, Democrats will support the troops a hell of a lot better than greedy bastards with yellow ribbons on their SUV's.

Most soldiers have no concept of American history and constitutional rights until they're not in the military. The military is like a fraternity on steroids, with all the excesses compounded. They're fed a line of bullshit, and most swallow it whole.

But former military bring to school a dedication that most students do not bring. They have a plan, and they're committed to it. Former military make good students. And that means they make good citizens, too.

If one does the math, the increase in the former military person's lifetime income as a college grad will produce many times the tax revenues than he would pay if he had not gone to college. As a program, helping former military go to college pays for itself in the long haul by creating more such taxable incomes.

in order to defend our country. The military is a defense that can be abused, but that is not the fault of the men and women who service our country. Many of them are poor and/or have no other options but to go into the military. Many could not go to school otherwise.

Poor-military. Not poor-any school that will accept you.

Having been there and done that, I can understand being young, largely uneducated about history, politics, and the world, and having to learn over time and beyond military service what being a decent citizen was really about.

Guess what? Going to college after military helped that, and not just me, but many returning military types.

country and your comment is very offensive. I would give ANYTHING to have them back, my son has been injured TWICE while protecting your right to be offensive with your comments...what would you give a person that will lay down his/her life for others.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

Interesting yet not unexpected.

:shrug:

speak when this "war" is basically being fought for the monetary interests of the corporations that own our government. 2. Why should anyone have to put themselves in harm's way to get an education? It seems to me that our government is more interested in making college so difficult to finance, assuming that one could get admitted into college, that it creates an underclass of poor people to be used as cannon fodder in the first place. How is that status quo in our interests at all?

"We" did. "I" didn't, either.

I see nothing wrong with this notion. Sorry it doesn't put money or opportunity DIRECTLY into your pocket, but it's a big society, and educating ex-soldiers will go a long way toward helping it.

Let me guess: no kids, so why pay for schools? Or no car, why pay for roads? :hi:

Former military, daughter in college and work in the oilfields helping idiots drive their cars.

Just check the July body count from Afghanistan

*sigh*

in the first place.

Perhaps if we funded things like health care and higher education for all citizens and shrunk our armed forces we'd be better off in the first place.

Denmark for example pays students a stipend to go to school and no one pays to go to school all the way up to a PHD. But I suppose it's more important to be able to bomb the shit out of people in other countries because that's been working so well for us so far.

:shrug:

But even if we shrink our armed forces we are still going to need them and I think we should compensate them accordingly. Especially considering the fact that they don't make the choice to invade places like Afghanistan or Iraq and the people who do get far more compensation than they do.

The benefits they recievece are pretty good already. I don't believe are mire deserving of free college education then someone who hasn't joined the military.

If you get "combat pay" it's a few hundred bucks a month more. And they get health care, retirement, and some other allowances. But I think you vastly underestimate the difficulty and the value of the job. Furthermore even if all of them aren't deployed in combat they are signing themselves up to potentially be deployed at a later date. That means there is a risk that you will get sent to Iraq or Afghanistan. In the private sector, people are compensated for doing risky jobs even if things turn out okay. I don't see why we shouldn't compensate people in the army the same way.

Civilian sector jobs do not do this, thus the extra pay. Also, in they civilian sector your pay usually corresponds to your level of skills. In the military, the training is also provided for free.

E-1 pay 16,794.00, which will soon go up six months or less to the next pay grade. In four years you should theoretically be at a E-5 grade and making close to the medium wage for the US.

When they have families/live off base they are responsible for their own housing as I understand it.

Look at all of the bums on the street. Most of them are probably Veterans. This country treats Veterans like dog crap, which is not to be stepped on and brushed off to the side. I don't know why people join a military for a government that doesn't care about them, and finds them so expendable. Attitudes like yours can only contribute further to their hardships.

Cheers,


Your baby killing, war loving, GI bill sucking friend,

cliffordu

I enjoyed the socialism the country gave me while I was in the military, and I appreciated the socialism the country gave me when I went to college and law school on the G.I. Bill.

Socialism is everywhere in our society already.

Now if we could get it for all Americans needing health care.

Soldiers, Sailors, Marines, and Airmen

I saw this coming during Bush when they started squeezing the middle class into poverty and outsourcing jobs. The simple premise is take away the jobs you don't want Americans to have and offer them the job of being your military. Therefore you can be Empire for real. It's really basic. Make the military service the only thing that you can actually make a living at and you'll have more than enough soldiers to spread around the planet.

Like I said, my cynicism is showing.

For many Americans, desperation is a way of life, and impoverished life on the streets of a large city in America might be just as dangerous as a tour of duty in Iraq. Aside from half a million free artillery shells for bomb-making, Richmond, VA and Baghdad, Iraq aren't terribly different, if you live in the wrong neighborhood or happen to be the wrong color.

But now, if one can volunteer for service in the U.S. military, one has a pretty good chance to get out of Baghdad and the hell-hole to which so many have to return when their service is over. Some few of them may even take their educational skills back to the mean streets, and help to improve them. Higher education as a result of military service might be one chance some kids wouldn't ordinarily get, and yes it sucks that it has to be earned that way but it would suck more if there were still Bushes around to reduce their pay and benefits.

And I can practically guarantee this: Some day, in the December of my years (or more likely the December of someone who actually gets that far) we will read of a fresh-faced kid bent on changing the world for the better, armed with confidence and a superb American college education as a result of this new program. That education will not have been granted for free, but at the highest possible price one can pay and survive. That kid is going to hate war more than you or I do, and he's going to cherish knowledge like the precious diamonds they are. And he will change the world for the better.

So we got that goin' for us.

Though many in this thread have mocked the idea that military vets are any better than us...perhaps they are not. However, they entered into a thankless field when they had no other options. The military gives them opportunities that they would have never had otherwise.

It also leads them to PTSD and many times screws up their minds due to combat and other violent activities. Death and dismemberment are also side benefits of active military duty for many.

The world sucks and people are mean and aggressive so a military is needed. When they return to civilian life, it would be smart to educate them and help them lose the 'killer' mindset.

I'd rather be treated well because I'm human not because I volunteered to possibly kill citizens of another country.

But at least we're keeping promises to some of our citizens.

We treat them even worse than normal citizens. If they're coming back from war, they're assumed to be mental cases and loose cannons. Many of them return home, only to find no jobs waiting for them. They can't get psychiatric help, because that means that they're 'not real men / soldiers, and therefore are a disappointment to everybody around them.' They take part in a job where the government doesn't care about them, and when they come back, the government cares about them even less.

so I'd say that's better then the rest of us who have to make due with what we can afford and to hell with us if we don't... Unless we're willing to become cannon fodder in the next war the rich men decide other people's children need to fight.

I have no idea why you'd think that the government treats us any better. It doesn't give a shit about the rest of us but at least they pay lip service to trying to do something for veterans (And in this case actually kept their promise) which is a hell of a lot more than what they do for the rest of us.

A really fucking dangerous job, mind you.

And the interest rates should be lower for all Americans...

Rah rah...blah blah.:evilfrown:

P.S. They'll find that they can't get the classes they need to graduate and the one's they can get are massively overcrowded. And good luck getting livable-wage job.

whiners? Is there something wrong with sending GI's to college, like we did in the 50's??? Then, the cost of college was about 1/10th of what it is today, or maybe less. And the need for college educated Americans is greater now than ever. So why do people complain here about investing in our nation's future. It sure paid off in the 50's and 60's when we did it. Why the whining now?

At first I thought it was posters being sarcastic and trying to look like Republicans. Now, I'm not so sure.

How many critics bitch about corporate "legacy costs and perks" (like tuition reimbursment, for example) ruining bottom lines and don't see the disconnect?

How many laissez-fail job offshoring fans (some are 1000+ DU posters, no less) complain about Americans "being less educated in math and science" than their overseas counterparts (whose educations are subsidized) and don't see the disconnect?

How many critics complain about the enormous student loan debt and don't see the disconnect?

It's LONG past time for higher education in this country to be subsidized. One should not have to risk his/her life, be a perfect student or have gobs of stored cash at their disposal to become a college student.

Ever stop and think that if college education were subsidized, their might not be a need for the military to have "poverty drafts", supplying them with endless cannon fodder for imperialist occupations?

the good.

Got it!

You must not read very well.

the gist their comments is why are we giving these stupid killers money.

a college education and if we subsidized or even paid stipends to students like they do in other countries that we'd probably be better off. That hasn't anything to do with hating anyone. You seem to want to complain about people taking the argument to the next level.

Yeah - bad taste, but c'mon - returning soldiers need psychiatric and re-integrative care much more than they need a free pass to some literary theory lectures. I can see this having bad results.

Especially if they've been in combat. Trying to work and go through school is a bitch and besides most of those guys could use the time off and deserve it.