Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

"Barack Obama has created the best opportunity to enact universal health care with a public option "

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU
 
ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-03-09 06:18 PM
Original message
"Barack Obama has created the best opportunity to enact universal health care with a public option "

Obama: It’s Up to Activists to Enact Real Health Care Reform

by Randy Shaw‚ Aug. 03‚ 2009

It’s been over 60 years since President Harry Truman urged Congress to enact a national health care system. Now, even longtime activists seem surprised that Barack Obama could not simply snap his fingers and win universal health care during his first seven months in office. That’s not how major social change is won. It’s not that easy, and movements, not politicians, typically drive success. That’s why the armchair critics who see President Obama, rather than activists, as holding the key to passage are so off base. Barack Obama has created the best opportunity to enact universal health care with a public option since Truman’s presidency. He has made a strong case for the public option, and used his personal popularity to drive the issue. But it is now up to constituency pressure to get the job done. It will take activists’ grassroots pressure campaigns targeting key legislators from the August recess through the day Congress votes to transform this opening for health care reform into a landmark victory.

As the media continues to present slanted and hostile coverage of health care reform with the massive coverage of opposition to Obama’s plan from a self-identified “raging Republican” small businesswoman only the latest example – progressive criticism of Obama’s handling of the issue has grown. Separate from the longstanding complaint that the proposed reform is not a single-payer plan, much of the criticism implies that passing health care requires a specific presidential negotiating strategy with Congress, rather than increased pressure from below.

It’s tempting to see politics in these terms, because it absolves activists and progressives of any responsibility for political outcomes. If we can blame Obama, Pelosi or the large target of Harry Reid for health care not passing, we do not have to ask ourselves what we have did to bring a different result.

But with polls showing strong support for both universal health care and a public option, activists can’t sit on the sidelines. Progressives should view August and September 2009 as equivalent to September and October 2008, recognizing that if the Republicans stop health care reform, all hopes for a new progressive era are at risk.

more


Excellent commentary.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
Kdillard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-03-09 06:23 PM
Response to Original message
1. Well the other side is certainly working against it. I was coming down the
LIRR on my way home and there was a protest going o against Obamacare. I just kept muttering loons.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Oregone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-03-09 06:26 PM
Response to Original message
2. Is that a better opportunity than simply expanding Medicare?
I mean, really now. 12 million people covered by it?!? What is Medicare? Chopped liver?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lord Helmet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-03-09 06:27 PM
Response to Original message
3. We'll see how the 3 (possibly 5) different bills fare in conference.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-03-09 06:45 PM
Response to Original message
4. Wow, thanks for this, PS..cold hard
facts staring activists in the face!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-03-09 07:07 PM
Response to Original message
5. gasp, you mean WE need to get active?!?
Really? What a novel idea.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-03-09 07:10 PM
Response to Original message
6. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-03-09 07:18 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. "Obama should resign so Bernie, who is willing to lead...Obama -- missing in action....." Have you
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jeanpalmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-03-09 07:29 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. No you've been asleep
Edited on Mon Aug-03-09 07:30 PM by jeanpalmer
Instead of providing leadership by proposing the plan he promised in his campaign, he has thrown it out there and now it's a damn feeding frenzy. And over what? A small public option that amounts to nothing.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-03-09 07:37 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Nonsense.
Edited on Mon Aug-03-09 07:42 PM by ProSense
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jeanpalmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-03-09 07:43 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. When would the limited public option
take effect?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Laelth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-03-09 07:44 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. Hear, hear. What Congress is considering now is worse than nothing. n/t
:dem:

-Laelth
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-03-09 07:47 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Nonsense, part 2
Edited on Mon Aug-03-09 07:47 PM by ProSense
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Laelth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-03-09 08:09 PM
Response to Reply #13
20. If states can choose single payer (in the final bill), I will support it.
I trust Dennis Kucinich, and if he will vote for this turd of a bill just to allow individual states to enact single-payer health care, I will support him on that (and quickly move to a state that enacts single-payer).

But I bet that the single-payer amendment doesn't make it into the final bill, and we will be left with just a turd.

:dem:

-Laelth
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-03-09 08:12 PM
Response to Reply #20
25. Yeah, that's the only thing mentioned in the statement.
The bill is solid whether or not you support it.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Laelth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-03-09 08:22 PM
Response to Reply #25
29. There is no "bill" yet, and you know it. You can't honestly say whether it's "solid" or not.
You are shilling, and that's fine, but if you want to appeal to fellow party members, I'd suggest you not demean us ... calling our comments "nonsense."

:dem:

-Laelth
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-03-09 08:25 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. "You are shilling" Get a grip. There is a House bill, which is
what Kucinich is referring to. You simply focused on the "in addition to" point and ignored the rest of his statement.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Laelth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-03-09 08:39 PM
Response to Reply #30
33. Your choice. Civility is a useful virtue. n/t
:dem:

-Laelth
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-03-09 08:41 PM
Response to Reply #33
35. And nonsense is nonsense. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dflprincess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-03-09 09:05 PM
Response to Reply #30
37. Kucinich's amendment allowing states to consider their own single payer plans
(and how they'll do that when half of them are broke is another issue) is the only thing that gives any strength to this bill.

The "public option" in HR3200 is designed to protect the insurance companies and the campaign "donations" they provide. If the bill passes as written it will be years before we get another chance at meaningful reform while the for profits take in the money most of us will be forced to pay them.

The bill mandates insurance coverage but with the high premiums and copays it allows, it does nothing to guarantee improved access to care.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jeanpalmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-03-09 08:32 PM
Response to Reply #29
31. The fact that according to reports
the Democrats are about to initiate a major pr offensive against the insurance industry tells me healthcare reform is in trouble. Why is it necessary to wage such a campaign if you have the votes for real reform? My hunch is there will be no real reform, not a public option of any consequence, and the Dems are going to try to shift the blame to the insurance companies.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dflprincess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-03-09 09:10 PM
Response to Reply #31
38. I'd say the opposite.
If it is true that they are going on a "major offensive" against the insurance companies, I might have renewed hope for actual health care reform.

All they've been working on so far is ways to protect the health insurance companies by passing health insurance reform - and the main part of that reform was to force us to buy the crappy products we already have.


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DevonRex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-03-09 07:41 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. That is fucking insane.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jeanpalmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-03-09 07:47 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. I agree
He promised a single payer system, and now not only has he reneged on that promise, but he is just standing on the sideline while a weak substitute bubbles to the surface. He has already conceded what he promised and we're only part way through the process. Let's see what we end up with.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DevonRex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-03-09 07:49 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. No, you do NOT agree with me. I said your post was fucking insane. And it is.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jeanpalmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-03-09 07:58 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. This is very much like the credit card bill
Edited on Mon Aug-03-09 08:00 PM by jeanpalmer
where the heart of the matter -- controlling the interest rate -- was conceded while all the meaningless provisions that were nothing more than a diversion got all the attention. It was a shell game. Now the middle class and the poor are paying a 29% interest rate irrespective of the so-called reform.

Same thing here. People are being flim flammed. Obama promised us a single payer system, that would save $400 billion, which would provide the funding necessary to provide healthcare for all the uninsured. And instead, we're getting a costly substitute that is the product of the insurance lobby while Obama stands on the sideline and doesn't make an effort to deliver what he promised.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-03-09 08:01 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
jeanpalmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-03-09 08:09 PM
Response to Reply #18
21. What about him?
When he promised to work for a single payer system, and then immediately threw in the towel and goes with an insurance scheme, did he lose any credibility, in your eyes?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-03-09 08:10 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-03-09 07:50 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. "He promised a single payer system, and now not only has he reneged on that promise" Yup
insane!

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
PolNewf Donating Member (388 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-03-09 08:11 PM
Response to Reply #16
24. Whine, whine, whine
The whiners act like this is the most important issue in the world to them. Yet all I'm seeing from up here are conservatives working the issue. Why aren't the "real progressives" out holding demonstrations like the conservative loons are?

If you spent half the time working as you do whining you might get somewhere.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
4lbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-03-09 08:06 PM
Response to Reply #14
19. Show me where during the Presidential campaign, he promised a single-payer system.
Show me any statement from February 2007 (when he declared his candidacy) to November 2008 where he promised we would have single-payer.

What he did say was that if we were starting from scratch, then obviously single-payer would be the way to go. However, we aren't starting from scratch. We are trying to reform the current system, and thus a public option was more likely.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jeanpalmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-03-09 08:10 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. It's been posted here many times
A direct quote. Maybe someone will post it again.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
PolNewf Donating Member (388 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-03-09 08:17 PM
Response to Reply #22
27. Years ago
He stated he supports single payer, and he didn't promise anything back then. He has come to realize that you can't get there directly from here, which is what he stated during the campaign. Again no promise.

FFS he has spent a good 10% capital just trying to get a public option, he has been out there every single day for weeks and he is paying for it. And while some progressive groups are holding their own in the ad wars so far, grassroots progressives have done NOTHING to help him.

Blame Obama all you want but I see a man working hard while lazy ass progressives whine on messageboards.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dflprincess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-03-09 09:14 PM
Response to Reply #22
39. When he was a lowly state senator he supported single payer
as a presidential candidate he did not, nor did he even allow it to be a serious part of discussions (despite his comments that he'd listen to all sides).

However, as a presidential candidate he did say he was opposed to mandated coverage, now he's for it. The further he moves up the food chain, the more corporate friendly he gets.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-03-09 09:37 PM
Response to Reply #39
40. Obama's position on mandates
has been fairly consistent:

I understand the Committees are moving towards a principle of shared responsibility -- making every American responsible for having health insurance coverage, and asking that employers share in the cost. I share the goal of ending lapses and gaps in coverage that make us less healthy and drive up everyone's costs, and I am open to your ideas on shared responsibility. But I believe if we are going to make people responsible for owning health insurance, we must make health care affordable. If we do end up with a system where people are responsible for their own insurance, we need to provide a hardship waiver to exempt Americans who cannot afford it. In addition, while I believe that employers have a responsibility to support health insurance for their employees, small businesses face a number of special challenges in affording health benefits and should be exempted.

link


I feel pretty good that I've been pretty consistent on this. The individual mandate is probably the one area where I basically changed my mind. The more deeply I got into the issue, the more I felt that the dangers of adverse selection justified us creating a system that shares responsibility, as long as we were actually making health insurance affordable and there was a hardship waiver for those who, even with generous subsidies, couldn't afford it. And that remains my position.

I think other than that we've been pretty consistent about how I think we need to approach the problem. And by the way, I in no way want to suggest that cost is more important than coverage. My point has been that those two things go hand in hand. If we can't control costs, then we simply can't afford to expand coverage the way we need to. In turn, if we can expand coverage, that actually gives us some leverage with insurers or pharmaceutical industry or others to do more to help make the health care system more cost-effective.

link


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dflprincess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-03-09 10:57 PM
Response to Reply #40
42. "The individual mandate is probably the one area where I basically changed my mind"
Edited on Mon Aug-03-09 11:08 PM by dflprincess
That's from your post. Also note he's talking about affordable health insurance - not access to health care.

Mandates do not make for access to affordable healthcare - as has been shown in Massachusetts. "Cost-sharing" aka "out of pocket" expenses of up to $5,000 for a single person are not affordable and may actually prevent people, especially those with chronic conditions, from seeing a provider until they are really sick (that's how large out of pockets are working now).

And premiums that can be as high as 11% of your income (though how much you pay depeneds on your employer) are not affordable.

We will continue to pay a lot more and get a lot less than people in every other western nation. But the Stephen Hemsleys of the world and "our" elected officials will be laughing all the way to the bank.

Personally, I don't care to be forced to continue to contribute to Cigna's profits.


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-03-09 11:11 PM
Response to Reply #42
44. Then there is the rest of the statement
Edited on Mon Aug-03-09 11:14 PM by ProSense
...The more deeply I got into the issue, the more I felt that the dangers of adverse selection justified us creating a system that shares responsibility, as long as we were actually making health insurance affordable and there was a hardship waiver for those who, even with generous subsidies, couldn't afford it. And that remains my position.


Obama has always maintained that affordability comes before any mandate. No where does he equate a mandate to affordability.

You:

"Cost-sharing" aka "out of pocket" expenses of up to $5,000 for a single person are not affordable and may actually prevent people, especially those with chronic conditions, from seeing a provider until they are really sick (that's how large out of pockets are working now).


You are ignoring the subsidies and hardship waivers. Also, Obama's plan provides catastrophic care coverage:

None of these plans should deny coverage on the basis of a preexisting condition, and all of these plans should include an affordable basic benefit package that includes prevention, and protection against catastrophic costs. I strongly believe that Americans should have the choice of a public health insurance option operating alongside private plans. This will give them a better range of choices, make the health care market more competitive, and keep insurance companies honest.

link


You: "Personally, I don't care to be forced to continue to contribute to Cigna's profits."

Who is forcing you now?



Edited typos


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dflprincess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-03-09 11:27 PM
Response to Reply #44
45. It's the only option my employer offers and I do need health insurance
I just don't consider it any kind of reform to force people to help the insurance executives maintain their life styles and I resent being told I have will have to do that or be fined. The way HR3200 is written, it will be years before my employer could offer the pathetic public option it offers nor would I qualify for it as an individual.

Individuals who make more than $43,000/year (and Pelosi says she's open to that cap being lowered) will be subject to the full out of pocket expense. The closer your income gets to the limit, the higher your out of pocket will go. We have not been informed what "hardship" waivers will include.

People are more in need of preventative care and maintenance for chronic conditions - both of which helps them avoid catastrophic care and saves money. The out of pockets will discourage that.

This bill is nothing but a gift to the insurance companies from their elected stooges.


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-04-09 04:33 PM
Response to Reply #45
46. You're not going to be forced to do anything.
You will have a choice, more choice than you do now, and who knows you may even get to choose a public option.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jeanpalmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-03-09 08:13 PM
Response to Reply #19
26. Show the quote where he said
"if we were starting from scratch." And give the date. That quote was from the New Mexico town hall meeting of a few days ago, not from the campaign. In the campaign, he ragged on the insurance companies and promised single payer.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
PolNewf Donating Member (388 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-03-09 08:38 PM
Response to Reply #26
32. Here you go, August 18, 2008
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7wTDK-LwqE

BTW you are full of shit. He never promised single payer.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
PolNewf Donating Member (388 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-03-09 08:40 PM
Response to Reply #26
34. January 24, 2008
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
4lbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-03-09 10:21 PM
Response to Reply #26
41. Bullcrap. Watch the debates versus McCain again. (n/t)
.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
YvonneCa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-03-09 08:19 PM
Response to Original message
28. Well, KO is firing us up...
...:7
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Kind of Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-03-09 08:42 PM
Response to Original message
36. Fantastic post, ProSense!
This is why I love DU. Time to get Fired Up and Ready to Go!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
_dynamicdems Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-03-09 10:58 PM
Response to Original message
43. Great post. K&R!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
politicasista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-04-09 04:48 PM
Response to Original message
47. Kick. Nice post!
:kick:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Wed May 01st 2024, 12:11 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC